AntonioGG Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 I'd think the cassette has more impact on shifting crispness than the derraileur. (sorry, tried spelling derailer and doesn't feel right to me) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 17 minutes ago, AntonioGG said: I'd think the cassette has more impact on shifting crispness than the derraileur. (sorry, tried spelling derailer and doesn't feel right to me) Blasphemy. Why do you hate Sheldon Brown?! 😢 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXZJ Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 31 minutes ago, Teamsloan said: It’s a minor difference. But as long as the cables and housing are good and everything is performing as designed, the shifter has a bigger impact on the shift quality and feel. The way it “clicks” through the shifts is determined by the shifter not the derailer. Also, at least with SRAM when you bump up from GX to XO, you get adjustable lever positioning. The difference between levels of derailers usually just comes down to weight. The features are the same. And the price difference is greater. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ^ this Usually run XTR/X0 shifters with lesser derailleurs. IMHO, the rocks here are too grabby for $200+ derailleurs 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockshins Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, AustinBike said: Really? I had always run SLX on the shifter and XT on the derailleur because I figured the smoothness came from the back, not the front. Upgrading the Niner this week but it is XT end-to-end so I guess I will not know. In the past shops had told me to use the SLX shifter because it was essentially the same as the XT at a lower price. What I should have said was to put the money into a XTR shifter and get a SLX rear mech (or SRAM equivalent?), because you will feel the difference in performance in the shifter more than in the rear mech. The shop didn't give you bad advice per se as there is not a huge difference between XT and SLX, but there is a slight difference and an even bigger one moving up to XTR. Had 2 bikes with XTR derailers and SLX shifters stock, upgraded the shifters to XTR and it was a big difference, shifting was so much crisper. Then snapped off one of the XTR rear mechs on a rock and replaced it with SLX, could not tell the difference. IMHO invest in the high end shifter, you can feel it and it is less likely to get destroyed. Edited July 16, 2019 by rockshins 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonioGG Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, Barry said: Blasphemy. Why do you hate Sheldon Brown?! 😢 I love Sheldon Brown, but I also have some French blood in me, and speak some French. Maybe I'll get used to it some time (it's like being a Spanish speaker and getting used to saying Guadaloop instead of its proper pronunciation). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamsloan Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 24 minutes ago, Barry said: Blasphemy. Why do you hate Sheldon Brown?! 😢 I need to figure out how to change my auto-correct to the Sheldon Brown spelling. Antonio, at least you have autocorrect supporting you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 17 hours ago, notyal said: Choosing every piece of a custom build can be fun, but you're fooling yourself if you think it's cheaper unless you already have some of the parts you need from other bikes. New complete bikes are really, really good these days and manufacturers can spec out a bike way cheaper then an individual building a custom bike. Just choose the frame you want and buy the best level complete build that you can afford. Give it chance with the factory spec (don't assume that you'll need to change stuff based on preconceived opinions of brands). Chances are that you don't have to make any compromises at all. I have to disagree. Most of my bikes road and MTB have been ground up builds with quality new parts at 30-50% savings. I built a Look 555 carbon bike with full Campagnolo Chorus including Campagnolo wheels for $2700, same bike purchased from a bike shop spec'd the same way would have been almost 6k. I built my Evil following from ground up full new XT 11s drivetrain DVO Diamond fork DT Swiss wheels for about $3700, same build from evil or Fanatic was 6k. If you don't need to have the latest newest build components you can find some good deals by waiting for the new versions of components to be launched and purchase the previous version at a deep discount letting you build the bike you want at a good price. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notyal Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Chief said: I have to disagree. Most of my bikes road and MTB have been ground up builds with quality new parts at 30-50% savings. I built a Look 555 carbon bike with full Campagnolo Chorus including Campagnolo wheels for $2700, same bike purchased from a bike shop spec'd the same way would have been almost 6k. I built my Evil following from ground up full new XT 11s drivetrain DVO Diamond fork DT Swiss wheels for about $3700, same build from evil or Fanatic was 6k. If you don't need to have the latest newest build components you can find some good deals by waiting for the new versions of components to be launched and purchase the previous version at a deep discount letting you build the bike you want at a good price. That logic only applies if you take full retail pricing of complete builds. If someone is willing to shop around for deals on each component, I bet that same person is willing to shop closeout deals on complete builds. Or gently used. Edited July 16, 2019 by notyal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXZJ Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Chief said: I have to disagree. Most of my bikes road and MTB have been ground up builds with quality new parts at 30-50% savings. I built a Look 555 carbon bike with full Campagnolo Chorus including Campagnolo wheels for $2700, same bike purchased from a bike shop spec'd the same way would have been almost 6k. I built my Evil following from ground up full new XT 11s drivetrain DVO Diamond fork DT Swiss wheels for about $3700, same build from evil or Fanatic was 6k. If you don't need to have the latest newest build components you can find some good deals by waiting for the new versions of components to be launched and purchase the previous version at a deep discount letting you build the bike you want at a good price. Same here. There's no way i could have afforded some of the bikes ive had if i bought complete. Out of the two dozen bikes ive owned, 5 were bought complete, two of which were bought new, on sale for 30% off. Edited July 16, 2019 by ATXZJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamsloan Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Compare builds and final price. https://www.ibiscycles.com/bikes/ripmo/ - Select the GX build and then upgrade everything, keep the Maxxis tire pick. Total comes to $7137.00 https://cyclingbuilder.com/user/Teamsloan/saved/#view=GTJ7YJ - Similar build except now it has a Cane Creek Helm Air fork along with Hope brakes, Renthal bar, and XO shifter, oh and pedals. The only thing missing is the ibis branded carbon rims but the hubs are the same. Total comes to $7131.46 Those are full retail cost for brand spankin' new parts. Now, either one is a freaking sweet bike. But I would take the custom one with the better brakes, fork, and shifter for about the same cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridenfool Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 4 hours ago, AntonioGG said: (sorry, tried spelling derailer and doesn't feel right to me) It may feel a little weird at first, but you'll get used to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notyal Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 3 hours ago, Teamsloan said: Compare builds and final price. https://www.ibiscycles.com/bikes/ripmo/ - Select the GX build and then upgrade everything, keep the Maxxis tire pick. Total comes to $7137.00 https://cyclingbuilder.com/user/Teamsloan/saved/#view=GTJ7YJ - Similar build except now it has a Cane Creek Helm Air fork along with Hope brakes, Renthal bar, and XO shifter, oh and pedals. The only thing missing is the ibis branded carbon rims but the hubs are the same. Total comes to $7131.46 Those are full retail cost for brand spankin' new parts. Now, either one is a freaking sweet bike. But I would take the custom one with the better brakes, fork, and shifter for about the same cost. Yeah, but carbon wheels are kinda a big upgrade item. I couldn't edit your saved build, but if you threw carbon hoops on it, the custom build would probably increase by $1k or more, right? If you go the through the Ibis site and stick with the "standard" Ibis alum wheels, the total is $5769 with the upgraded suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamsloan Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) So is that Cane Creek fork and the Hope brakes. Sure, this goes back to the "what do you compromise on" question. Me? I could take or leave carbon hoops. And honestly, if I were going to go the carbon route I would be going with Chinese carbon hoops and that cost difference drops dramatically. Also, consider that I was still able to keep the i9 Hydra hubset with a full i9 wheelset vs dropping from Ibis carbon wheels down to house brand whatever hubs. The main thing is I can get it around the same ballpark price wise, but I get to choose which parts I compromise on, not the manufacturer. Edited July 16, 2019 by Teamsloan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notyal Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, Teamsloan said: So is that Cane Creek fork and the Hope brakes. Sure, this goes back to the "what do you compromise on" question. Me? I could take or leave carbon hoops. And honestly, if I were going to go the carbon route I would be going with Chinese carbon hoops and that cost difference drops dramatically. Also, consider that I was still able to keep the i9 Hydra hubset with a full i9 wheelset vs dropping from Ibis carbon wheels down to house brand whatever hubs. The main thing is I can get it around the same ballpark price wise, but I get to choose which parts I compromise on, not the manufacturer. You're right, it does go back the the main point of this thread. I'm just saying if you spec one with a high dollar item like carbon hoops and one without, it's not really apples to apples. My whole argument for the complete build package is really who cares who is choosing the compromise. Have you ridden the Cane Creek Helm and the Fox Float Grip2 Factory back to back? Why is that the part de résistance? In your scenario, if I give up a few exotic parts, I get free carbon wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamsloan Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 For many people, they don't care who is choosing the compromise. And so, a custom build may not be all that important and will probably save them money if sticking to brand new retail priced parts. I like the freedom to choose, and I really like to tinker with stuff. So, that choice has more value to me. If carbon hoops are a no compromise issue for someone, then they can keep the Fox Factory fork and the Deore brakes. Funny thing is the Cane Creek is actually cheaper than the Fox Factory fork. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notyal Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, Teamsloan said: For many people, they don't care who is choosing the compromise. And so, a custom build may not be all that important and will probably save them money if sticking to brand new retail priced parts. I like the freedom to choose, and I really like to tinker with stuff. So, that choice has more value to me. If carbon hoops are a no compromise issue for someone, then they can keep the Fox Factory fork and the Deore brakes. Funny thing is the Cane Creek is actually cheaper than the Fox Factory fork. I was just arguing because I was bored yesterday. You never said it was "cheaper" to do a custom build, only that you can get in the neighborhood. You should probably buy that Ripmo. Congrats! Edited July 17, 2019 by notyal 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamsloan Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Well, you sucked me in! 😛 I'm prone to debating things so, nbd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spicewookie Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 I usually compromise my children’s nutrition, health, happiness, education, and recreation opportunities for my bike purchases. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spicewookie Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 27 minutes ago, spicewookie said: I usually compromise my children’s nutrition, health, happiness, education, and recreation opportunities for my bike purchases. Who am I kidding? i built my current bike ground up in 2013. What I spent on that = family of 4 ski trip or 6 months of club volleyball. I hunt, fish, chicken ranch, goat herd, and garden to provide food for them. Please don’t report me to CPS. My wife has friends that work there, so word might get back to her. thanks in advance. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridenfool Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) Mums the word. But honestly, if she don't know already she prolly wouldn't believe the co-workers anyway. Your cult/indoctrination skills should not be underestimated. Pace Bend trails, TMW, and the tremendous following for Aquarium and Goat related discussion all speak volumes for your effectiveness in swaying people toward action and views they may never have considered. 🥓🥓🥓 Your carefully crafted conjurings upon consciousness are both sublime and subliminal. Edited July 18, 2019 by Ridenfool 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bestbike85 Posted August 6, 2019 Author Share Posted August 6, 2019 (edited) Thanks for all the input here. I ended up landing a killer deal. Only had 1 compromise from my ideal bike, and it was the XT 11-46 11speed drivetrain. If all I have to do is remember how to shift with Shimano again, I feel like I came out good here. Edited August 6, 2019 by bestbike85 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridenfool Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 (edited) Congrats, but, you know the rulez. Pics, or it didn't happen. Edited August 6, 2019 by Ridenfool 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 On 7/16/2019 at 8:48 AM, AntonioGG said: I'd think the cassette has more impact on shifting crispness than the derraileur. (sorry, tried spelling derailer and doesn't feel right to me) They are both important. I had never considered the shifter until Brian pointed it out, his argument makes sense. However, having just moved from a 10sp SunRace cassette to an 11sp Shimano cassette I can tell you that even though the Shimano is technically "thinner" because it has to be narrower to handle more gears, the Shimano feels sturdier. The SunRace had a cheap feel/sound to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXZJ Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, AustinBike said: They are both important. I had never considered the shifter until Brian pointed it out, his argument makes sense. However, having just moved from a 10sp SunRace cassette to an 11sp Shimano cassette I can tell you that even though the Shimano is technically "thinner" because it has to be narrower to handle more gears, the Shimano feels sturdier. The SunRace had a cheap feel/sound to it. Which sunrace were you running? I've used the MX8 series with the aluminum with some pretty good results. They didn't sound or feel any worse than my overpriced $275.00 sram X0 cassettes. 3 hours ago, bestbike85 said: Thanks for all the input here. I ended up landing a killer deal. Only had 1 compromise from my ideal bike, and it was the XT 11-46 11speed drivetrain. If all I have to do is remember how to shift with Shimano again, I feel like I came out good here. Congrats on the bike. If you are getting used to shimano, you probably wont like that 11-46 cassette. The engineers must've been drunk when they designed it with a 9 tooth jump to the big cog. Edited August 6, 2019 by ATXZJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 1 hour ago, ATXZJ said: Which sunrace were you running? I've used the MX8 series with the aluminum with some pretty good results. They didn't sound or feel any worse than my overpriced $275.00 sram X0 cassettes. Pretty sure it was this one: http://www.sunrace.com/en/products/detail/csms3 But it has a red lock ring. Got it on the pay it forward thread over a year ago so I have no real clue of the model # Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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