TheX Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 No, I'm not getting one...but this video shows that they have a place. Just my opinion of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Eh, those were not climbs, they were barely inclines. I believe that an integral part of riding is the climbing. Climbing is the vegetable, descending is the dessert. If all you ever eat is dessert, well, you can figure that one out for yourself. There are a ton features added to today's bikes to help make it easier to climb, including 50T cassettes, smaller front cogs, triple chain rings, lockouts, the list goes on and on. But, all of these things, while they make it easier to climb, still require you to climb. So there is still some degree of effort on your end. I can climb, but I suck at descents, I don't do big drops, I am not a fan of jumps. How would the market feel about a new mountain bike was created that allowed people to do big drops without ever crashing? It would be called heresy. Nobody would advocate these. They'd tell you how they are ruining the sport. That is how I feel about ebikes. I believe they do have their place, primarily for commuting or for getting someone who does not ride out onto the trails, but eventually you need to take over, they are just training wheels for the trails. I know I sound like a cranky old man, but I am. How can we all sit here and rail on the people who create cheater lines and then say oh, yeah, but e-bikes are cool? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 E-bikes are a great alternative to driving for practical uses and good for people who, for whatever medical reason, can't ride a normal bike. "I don't like climbing" is a dumb reason to ride a sissy motorbike, but if that makes someone happy and does not jeopardize access to trails for the rest of use, spend your money on that kind of toy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tip Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, AustinBike said: How would the market feel about a new mountain bike was created that allowed people to do big drops without ever crashing? It would be called heresy. Nobody would advocate these. They'd tell you how they are ruining the sport. They actually have done this and they did it several years ago. They call it "suspension" and "shocks". It made the sport more fun and let more people do more things that, before the introduction of that technology, were not possible for them. I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I'm just illustrating that things are relative. Are dropper posts cheating? Are carbon bikes cheating? And the guy had a good point about "if you're not racing then does it matter?" I think the only real argument that can be made against mountain ebikes is whether or not they more adversely affect the trails. But these things don't have throttles. I don't think they are capable of rooster tailing a shower of dirt like motocross motorcycles can. No more so than a regular bike railing a berm can that is. And it's not a problem with them weighing more. They weigh what, 20 pounds more? I know for a fact that I weigh 20 pounds more than the majority of folks out there on comparable bikes. So that can't be an "ebikes are worse than regular bikes" argument. Don't be a weightist! Edited July 23, 2019 by The Tip 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidingAgain Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I would absolutely buy my wife an ebike... Just make it all more fun for her. Especially if living in an area with mountains. Would buy myself one too. And above is just a beautiful comment by The Tip... Especially this... "I think the only real argument that can be made against mountain ebikes is whether or not they more adversely affect the trails." Just plain 'ol common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree Magnet Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I have no real problem with ebikes and I agree with a few points raised here. I'll sum it up with bullet points: I'm wary of anything that threatens the already tenuous balance between mountain biking, land owners, and other user groups. Riding ice tires with spikes on dry ground and ripping up trails on a normal bike could also create issues. Do I really think that hikers and nature lovers care that the bike that just shot past them was electric or human powered? I don't think they care. They would rather there be no bikes on the trails just like they would rather there be no other people on the trail. We all want to enjoy nature our own way and for some that means without other annoying people. Suddenly dropping $7k on a bike is no big deal? Even dentists might not like that price for a 45 lb that only feels like it's 20 lbs when the batteries are charged. Are ebikes going to drive up the cost threshold on bikes and drive it down on scooters? All the bike companies need to watch their back for the motorcycle companies. When what makes a bike 'quality' is more about the motor and electronics than it is about the geometry, companies like Harley Davidson, Aprilla, Honda, etc. are going to be coming for this market. They have much deeper pockets and a much better distribution and supply chain. These are all first world problems. I prefer to just ride my bike like it is and enjoy it than stress over shit like this that I can do nothing about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csmceuen Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Saw this on pinkbike and felt it was relevant. https://www.pinkbike.com/news/video-diggers-back-with-wade-simmons-and-todd-digger-fiander.html 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted July 24, 2019 Author Share Posted July 24, 2019 Threads like this are a great way to see who has an open mind about things for a WIDE variety of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) The widespread adoption of e-mtbs by people who are otherwise able-bodied is the best case for alarm over the wussification of America. Wussies will disagree. Edited July 24, 2019 by mack_turtle 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yosmithy Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 I'm not sure anyone (including myself) would consider me "able-bodied" at this point, but I am still capable of riding a non-e-mtb. Every painful morning I wake up, I look more forward to the e-mtb w/pussification. Oh, and I'll flip you off too when I'm stopped on the trail adjusting my sports depends 🙂 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted July 24, 2019 Author Share Posted July 24, 2019 I'm 60 with some crappy accident leftovers, and I'm a heart attack survivor. No e-bike for me, but someday it may be necessary. I go to the gym a lot, and try to be in charge of my fitness destiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seths Pool Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 On 7/23/2019 at 12:21 PM, The Tip said: They actually have done this and they did it several years ago. They call it "suspension" and "shocks". It made the sport more fun and let more people do more things that, before the introduction of that technology, were not possible for them. I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I'm just illustrating that things are relative. Are dropper posts cheating? Are carbon bikes cheating? And the guy had a good point about "if you're not racing then does it matter?" I think the only real argument that can be made against mountain ebikes is whether or not they more adversely affect the trails. But these things don't have throttles. I don't think they are capable of rooster tailing a shower of dirt like motocross motorcycles can. No more so than a regular bike railing a berm can that is. And it's not a problem with them weighing more. They weigh what, 20 pounds more? I know for a fact that I weigh 20 pounds more than the majority of folks out there on comparable bikes. So that can't be an "ebikes are worse than regular bikes" argument. Don't be a weightist! woah woah woah! huge apples to oranges comparison youre making there. I dont have a problem with e-bikes either, but dont compare suspension and a dropper post to adding a motor to a bicycle. one of the biggest pride points about riding bicycles is that youre completely driven and propelled by your own generated human power. all that distance you just covered, or that huge mountain you just ascended - all done with your heart, lungs, and muscles. not a motor. you can add all the shocks and droppers and fancy bling components to your bike and its still a bicycle. but the moment you add a motor for propulsion its not longer a bicycle, its a motorized vehicle. the end if you crank up the far west blvd hill on a bike next to a guy riding an e-bike and you both set strava PRs at the top, the achievements arent the same. that being said I totally promote ebikes for people that arent able bodied, but if you are able bodied, you loose some points there 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csmceuen Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) I have no intention of ever riding an E-Bike, but I hope if I ever have to ride one due to some medical condition that people are nicer to me when I am on one than I am to E-MTBers right now. Glass houses blah blah.... Edited July 24, 2019 by csmceuen 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csmceuen Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Also, I have an old friend who is just getting back into biking and instead of getting a real bike he purchased an E-bike....I keep blowing him off to ride with him because I feel ashamed to be riding near him. Does this make me a bad person? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tip Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) On 7/24/2019 at 2:11 PM, Seths Pool said: but dont compare suspension and a dropper post to adding a motor to a bicycle. But seriously, you are projecting your values, your "biggest pride points" on to me. One person cannot judge what gives another person joy. Maybe it doesn't matter to me how I get to the top of the hill. I just want to get to the top. But there's nothing stopping you from feeling some pride of getting to the top of the hill on human power though. I agree with the point you made about Strava times though. That aspect of Strava is not that important to me but I know it is to some people. I think that is a valid point about ebike usage. Perhaps Strava can come up with another category for them. Of course then it would depend on people being honest. But they have to be honest already by marking categories. How many people ride a bike now on trails and use the "run" category just to get a run KOM? (Do runners even do the KOM thing?) Edited July 26, 2019 by The Tip 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seths Pool Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, The Tip said: But seriously, you are projecting your values, your "biggest pride points" on to me. One person cannot judge what gives other person joy. Maybe it doesn't matter to me how I get to the top of the hill. I just want to get to the top. But there's nothing stopping you from feeling some pride of getting to the top of the hill on human power though. I agree with the point you made about Strava times though. That aspect of Strava is not that important to me but I know it is to some people. I think that is a valid point about ebike usage. Perhaps Strava can come up with another category for them. Of course then it would depend on people being honest. But they have to be honest already by marking categories. How many people ride a bike now on trails and use the "run" category just to get a run KOM? (Do runners even do the KOM thing?) I hear you my dude but you're avoiding the main point of my post. it not about pride, it about what makes a bicycle a bicycle and once you go outside the parameters of what a bicycle is, you arent riding a bicycle anymore. bicycle by definition - bi·cy·cle /ˈbīsək(ə)l/ Learn to pronounce noun 1. a vehicle composed of two wheels held in a frame one behind the other, *propelled by pedals* and steered with handlebars attached to the front wheel. synonyms: cycle, two-wheeler, pedal cycle; More the end there is not arguing with that Edited July 24, 2019 by Seths Pool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 24 minutes ago, The Tip said: (Do runners even do the KOM thing?) Yes, yes they do. Some of the running segments in SATN are insane. When I think of riding a motorized bicycle on trails, it makes me think of someone riding a Bird scooter in a marathon. Apples and oranges? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yosmithy Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 I don't see it as a "bicycle". I see it as something with two wheels. So that satisfies my needs... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tip Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Onewheels are definitely NOT bicycles. But they look like a lot of fun in those trail videos. Horses are not bicycles either. But I have seen both user groups enjoying the Slaughter Creek Trail. Oranges are not apples. But I like to eat both. Depends on my taste at the moment. A marathon is usually a race with rules. But I would be willing to bet someone has had fun riding a scooter 26.2 miles at one point. Perhaps this reticence to embrace this new technology has something to do with not wanting to share the trail with even more people. If we allow them then no doubt that will result in even more use. But for me I get a lot of joy out of seeing anyone enjoying the trails. Except horses. I feel that horses damage the trails. And the poop of course. But the damage thing goes back to my major concern about ebikes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notyal Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 49 minutes ago, Seths Pool said: I hear you my dude but you're avoiding the main point of my post. it not about pride, it about what makes a bicycle a bicycle and once you go outside the parameters of what a bicycle is, you arent riding a bicycle anymore. bicycle by definition - bi·cy·cle /ˈbīsək(ə)l/ Learn to pronounce noun 1. a vehicle composed of two wheels held in a frame one behind the other, *propelled by pedals* and steered with handlebars attached to the front wheel. synonyms: cycle, two-wheeler, pedal cycle; More the end there is not arguing with that Ebikes are still propelled by pedals. If you take the pedals off an ebike, it will go the exact same speed as a regular bike with no pedals. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonioGG Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Pedals are for wussies! http://www.photo-museum.org/velocipede-invention-niepce/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 49 minutes ago, The Tip said: Perhaps this reticence to embrace this new technology has something to do with not wanting to share the trail with even more people. If we allow them then no doubt that will result in even more use. To the first, no. I share the trail with a lot of people now, as defined by the city. If they tell me that ebikes are allowed I will not have an issue (but I will not ride with those people, not my thing.) To the second, yes, if you allow them it will result in more use. That, sir, is a double edged sword. If an ebike runs over a hiker or runner, will they try to paint the brush that all bikes should be banned from the trails? There is a subtlety between bikes and ebikes that bikers understand but the general public does not. It will be a sad day for us. We've already been locked out of places (literally) and there are those always willing to throw us under the ebus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidingAgain Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) 19 hours ago, AustinBike said: ...If an ebike runs over a hiker or runner, will they try to paint the brush that all bikes should be banned from the trails? ...There is a subtlety between bikes and ebikes that bikers understand but the general public does not. ...It will be a sad day for us. We've already been locked out of places (literally) and there are those always willing to throw us under the ebus. To the first... Bikes don't run over people... People riding bikes run over people... And non-ebike riders are certainly guilty of doing just that. And have been for many years. To the second... The public doesn't have to understand anything about bikes, e or otherwise. Bike riders are able to ride — on public property — because of the grace of the local government, who is supported by public financing. Bike riders need to be self-governing with this in mind. Which usually requires some sort of responible conduct on the part of the bike rider. Which is something that is not always evident, no matter what type of bike is being ridden. To the third... Shit happens. Deal with it. Move on. Edited July 25, 2019 by RidingAgain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidingAgain Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 2 hours ago, The Tip said: Except horses. I feel that horses damage the trails. And the poop of course. Trying to avoid horse poop was the reason my wife suffered her worse riding injury. It was at Slaughter Creel trail, about half way through the circuit, and she got a concussion because of it. Had memory loss for around six hours. It was fricking frightening. Especially making the choice to have her continue to ride out of the trail... Thankfully she could still ride. She just didn't know where she was and where the kids were and some other stuff. I didn't know if the exertion would make things worse, but we had to get out of there though so we could get to the hospital. Freaks me out a bit everytime I remember it. Anyway... Back to the thread topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonioGG Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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