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E-Bike love?


TheX

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There were moments a couple days ago I might have seen fit to use an e-bike ... šŸ˜… and still, I persevered and rode (hike-a-biked) on.

In the greater scheme of things I feel more disdain toward an inconsiderate Stravasshole giving all riders a bad name by their treating a shared-use trail as their personal race track than I do toward someone riding pedal-assist in a responsible and considerate manner.

Edited by Ridenfool
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I've had two VERY close calls at Walnut. People FLYING through areas with no visibility around corners where kidsĀ are often hiking. There is no reason to ride like that there. There are other places that are MUCH better.

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I've had two VERY close calls at Walnut. People FLYING through areas with no visibility around corners where kidsĀ are often hiking. There is no reason to ride like that there. There are other places that are MUCH better.

Not on Tuesday nights! [emoji1591][emoji48][emoji1591]


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On 7/26/2019 at 3:13 PM, Ridenfool said:

There were moments a couple days ago I might have seen fit to use an e-bike ... šŸ˜… and still, I persevered and rode (hike-a-biked) on.

In the greater scheme of things I feel more disdain toward an inconsiderate Stravasshole giving all riders a bad name by their treating a shared-use trail as their personal race track than I do toward someone riding pedal-assist in a responsible and considerate manner.

Yeah, people go far too fast at Walnut, especially during busy times like weekends.Ā  Ā It's far too crowded to ride fast there, especially these days.

I don't really think e-bikes make much difference there.Ā  You're limited in speed by how well you corner through trees, so a fit rider with good handling skills will probably be able to go faster than the average joe on an e-bike.

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On 7/24/2019 at 2:18 PM, csmceuen said:

Also, I have an old friend who is just getting back into biking and instead of getting a real bike he purchased anĀ E-bike....I keep blowing him off to ride with him because I feel ashamed to be riding near him.Ā 

Does this make me a bad person?

Following up on this one:

I went out on a ride with my friend and his new E-bike. I have changed my opinion of them drastically after doing so. I still have no desire to ride one, but it was great being able to get on a bike with my friend who has not ridden in 5-10 years and he was easily able to pace with me for 15ish miles. I rode my single speed at Brushy and never felt like he could easily just speed off without me. I also noticed that I spun out more on hills than he ever did (not sure what mode he was riding in). The e-bike delivered very steady/even reliable power that never broke loose once on the dry dusty scree out there while I spun out at least once every steep climb. I can easily say he did less damage to the trail than I did yesterday. I can also say skill and fitness is worth far more than that electric motor, but it did make things interesting and really leveled the playing field. I can not speak to the legality of it, but I no longer think they do any more damage to a trail than we do. I can also happily say that I would love to go on a ride with him again. Is it a bit of a cop out for someone who just does not want to work to get in great shape? Yeah, but my friend has no where near the time I do to ride and it was freaking fun to both get out and push our pace for a really solid 15 miles and both be whooped by the end of it. That was much more enjoyable for both of us than what could have beenĀ 3 grueling miles of suffering for him and the equivalent amount of time waiting around for me.

I think just like One Wheels this needs to be addressed at an official capacity by the state/city, but I for one am on board. It gets more people into a sport I love and ultimately grows it and hopefully the volume of available trails with it.

I will also add that while we were riding he was discussing getting a second non motorized bike as well which tells me that the e-bike is really just a gateway drug.

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On 7/26/2019 at 3:13 PM, Ridenfool said:

Ā šŸ˜…

In the greater scheme of things I feel more disdain toward an inconsiderate Stravasshole giving all riders a bad name by their treating a shared-use trail as their personal race track than I do toward someone riding pedal-assist in a responsible and considerate manner.

This has been my experience as well. I've seen more sh*tty behavior from Strava users stroking their e-peen than I've everĀ  seen ebikes in the wild. This includes runners as well.Ā 

To me it's more of a clash of end user personalities.

I'm always down for putting more people on bikes, but we live in a country that's not down for putting much money into anything for the common good.

Bike access to overcrowded trails will ultimately an issue.

Ā 

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Great story! For me itā€™s always come down to trail access. I have my other complaints against them, but those are just my personal biases. In the past week Iā€™ve seen two videos and now your story that show the benefit of e-mtbs. All three cases involved people getting to ride with their friends which would have been impossible without the pedal assist. My favorite use case is actually the video of Danny Macaskill riding stoker on an e-mtb tandem with Martin Ashton riding captain. Two great guys getting to ride together and having a blast. Because the land manager allows those types of bikes, it works out great.

Ā 

What turns me off are the videos produced by the manufacturers depicting 20 something able bodied, fit enduro bros roosting around corners. They might as well finish the vid with them chugging MTN Dew and high fiving. That sort of image doesnā€™t gain much favor with the anti-MTN biking land manager.

Ā 

If they donā€™t hurt my access to trails, Iā€™ve got no real issue with them.

Ā 

Ā 

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Ā 

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6 minutes ago, Teamsloan said:

If they donā€™t hurt my access to trails, Iā€™ve got no real issue with them.

I think this was really what I was getting to. I now believe they SHOULDĀ have equal access. I think they are a great addition to the bike world for the right uses. Prior to yesterdays ride I did not fully understand and thought they would just aid in the destruction of trails.

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18 minutes ago, ebflo said:

It was a bad argument. The same could be said of a car.

You mean a car like this?

e96b6e25934b43fc84d0df62b419150c.jpg

Because the original "argument (?)" was the definition of a bike being that it is pedal powered. So I thought it was a brilliant statement.

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54 minutes ago, ebflo said:

It was a bad argument. The same could be said of a car.

But the definition of a car does not include the term "pedal propelled". Let's revisit the definition of the bicycle:

"a vehicle composed of two wheels held in a frame one behind the other, propelled by pedals,Ā and steered with handlebars attached to the front wheel."

Where in that definition does it exclude electronic pedal assist bike?

It excludes motorcycles and dirt bikes because - no pedals. I excludes Tip's pedal car because ofĀ the two wheels and handlebar clause.Ā 

Edited by notyal
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1 minute ago, Ericbike6 said:

So is it time to have a discussion about banning single speeds?Ā  :)

Ā 

Ā 

No.

It is time to have a discussion about banning assholes. It does not matter what they are 'on'. An asshole causes trouble no matter what they are 'on'. Even 'on' foot.

The trouble is it can be hard to identify assholes to ban them. It is much easier to identify / ban somebody by what they are 'on'.

Some of the biggest trouble makers at Walnut Creek are 'on' foot. They start most conversations with "FU" so they are easy to spot. But they could go into hiding by keeping their mouth shut.

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58 minutes ago, notyal said:

But the definition of a car does not include the term "pedal propelled". Let's revisit the definition of the bicycle:

"a vehicle composed of two wheels held in a frame one behind the other, propelled by pedals,Ā and steered with handlebars attached to the front wheel."

Where in that definition does it exclude electronic pedal assist bike?

It excludes motorcycles and dirt bikes because - no pedals. I excludes Tip's pedal car because ofĀ the two wheels and handlebar clause.Ā 

Your assertion that an e-bike is "pedal propelled"Ā Ā because it won't move without the pedals is flawed. One example illustrating theĀ flaw: theĀ fact that my car also does not move without the pedalsĀ does not make it "pedal propelled".

Whether an e-bike is "pedal propelled", and by extension, whether it meets the definition of a bicycle, is a little more nuanced. It *can* be pedal propelled, but it can also be propelled by a motor. However, it is not the first vehicle with this property, such vehicles in the past have been classified as mopeds. The main difference between an e-bike and a traditional moped is that an e-bike's motor is controlled by force on theĀ pedals instead of by a hand-operated control. I viewĀ the method by which the motor is controlled as a triviality, and therefore, still consider e-bikes as a type of moped.

Of course this is all just pedantic wankery, as none of these technicalities or semantic gymnastics have anything to do with whether e-bikes should be ridden on any particular trail.

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45 minutes ago, ebflo said:

Your assertion that an e-bike is "pedal propelled"Ā Ā because it won't move without the pedals is flawed. One example illustrating theĀ flaw: theĀ fact that my car also does not move without the pedalsĀ does not make it "pedal propelled".

Whether an e-bike is "pedal propelled", and by extension, whether it meets the definition of a bicycle, is a little more nuanced. It *can* be pedal propelled, but it can also be propelled by a motor. However, it is not the first vehicle with this property, such vehicles in the past have been classified as mopeds. The main difference between an e-bike and a traditional moped is that an e-bike's motor is controlled by force on theĀ pedals instead of by a hand-operated control. I viewĀ the method by which the motor is controlled as a triviality, and therefore, still consider e-bikes as a type of moped.

Of course this is all just pedantic wankery, as none of these technicalities or semantic gymnastics have anything to do with whether e-bikes should be ridden on any particular trail.

This is flawed. Take the pedals off your car and put it in Drive and it will move. You just won't be able to stop it or accelerate.

A moped has a throttle. It is not dependent upon the pedals to be pushed in order to supplement power to the drive train.

An E-bike only provides pedal-assist from the motor. If you don't push the pedal, no motor power is applied. This is the crucial difference between the two. Rather than being trivial, this aspect is the reason they could be considered as applicable for trail use on a bicycle trail. All the assist does is provide the rider with more powerful legs. No different than a strong rider vs a weak one.

By your logic, strong riders should not be allowed on trails either.

Edited by Ridenfool
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8 minutes ago, AustinBike said:

This is flawed.Ā To put my car in drive I have to depress the brake first.

Safety semantics aside, it is not a flawed statement. The computer program's need for the pedal to unlock the shifter could be overridden with a push button for the sake of this argument. It is a "brake" pedal, not a "gearshift release" pedal. šŸ™„

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2 hours ago, Yosmithy said:

What I got out of that story is that single speeders are extremely damaging to trails.

šŸ™‚

I see what you did there. I guess I should stop pedaling and just get an ebike...

2 hours ago, Ericbike6 said:

So is it time to have a discussion about banning single speeds?Ā  šŸ™‚

This would be a very sad day indeed...

1 hour ago, ATXZJ said:

That'd be the best day of my life

What do you have against single speeds man? Best day of your life is quite the assertion and I sense some deeply set hatred is present. Were you run over by a single speeder as a child? Maybe your family dog?

Ā 

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