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Does anyone know if ARR raised the minimum age for all their group rides to 18? 

 

Or is that just a rule for RLAG?

 

 

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Only RLAG has changed at the moment. The Sunday and monthly rides have not changed at this time, but may have to also.

ARR is having to work thru some new (ARR just found out about it) legal requirements. RLAG being the most visible and most active group was the first to make changes.

I never thought I would see the Federal Government would get involved with local volunteer organizations like ARR. But the women's gymnastics problems (Google Larry Nasser) create such a problem that it happened.

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30 minutes ago, cxagent said:

Only RLAG has changed at the moment. The Sunday and monthly rides have not changed at this time, but may have to also.

ARR is having to work thru some new (ARR just found out about it) legal requirements. RLAG being the most visible and most active group was the first to make changes.

I never thought I would see the Federal Government would get involved with local volunteer organizations like ARR. But the women's gymnastics problems (Google Larry Nasser) create such a problem that it happened.

wow, I thought this was just rumor when I originally heard about it.

Geez, that absolutely sux

 

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It is actually part of a vast silver-wing conspiracy to keep kids off the trails so the Baby Boomers can have them to themselves in retirement. :classic_rolleyes:

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I read into the Safe Sport act a little after hearing about the objection to dealing with minors and from what I saw it is mostly things that any organization should probably be doing anyways to protect kids. My son was in Cub Scouts and we had to watch a video about preventing and identifying/reporting abuse of minors and we had basic rules that you had to have a min of two adults with minors. Even if Kid's Trips, for example, didn't have this rule, I would not want to be the sole adult with a group of kids or a single kid because it is basic sense to avoid being in a situation where one could be blamed for something.

 

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You can't legislate common sense, yet so many people prefer having the illusion of regulation as validation for shirking personal responsibility.

There has not been a law written that ever leaped off the page to prevent the act it prohibited.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, The Tip said:

Ronald-Reagan-Quotes-1-1024x545.jpg

"Even more terrifying wass: My name is Larry Nassar, I'll be your doctor today" - US Gymnasts

Edited by Anita Handle
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52 minutes ago, Ridenfool said:

It is actually part of a vast silver-wing conspiracy to keep kids off the trails so the Baby Boomers can have them to themselves in retirement. :classic_rolleyes:

Oh, I'm down wit dat!!

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I think the fact that RLAG only rides during the hottest time of the year, and damn near work hours, will keep plenty of people off the trail. 

 

 

 

157267.jpg

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Anita Handle said:

I read into the Safe Sport act a little after hearing about the objection to dealing with minors and from what I saw it is mostly things that any organization should probably be doing anyways to protect kids. My son was in Cub Scouts and we had to watch a video about preventing and identifying/reporting abuse of minors and we had basic rules that you had to have a min of two adults with minors. Even if Kid's Trips, for example, didn't have this rule, I would not want to be the sole adult with a group of kids or a single kid because it is basic sense to avoid being in a situation where one could be blamed for something.

 

So just to throw out some hypothetical situations - 

Say there is a Kid's Trip ride with one adult lead and one adult sweep and several kids. Say one kid has a flat or gets hurt. Now the entire group has to stay or go with the one kid. We can't split the adults and especially not have one adult with the one kid. 

So what if we have three adults with each group? Nope - that would end up with one adult with the one kid.

So we have to have an even number of adults with each group. That way there can always be two adults with any way the kids are split up.

But we are already having trouble getting enough adults for even two groups of kids with two adults with each group (total of 4 adults). This is quickly getting to the point where Kid's Trip / minor (under 18) riders just don't work anymore. Pretty quickly it becomes the only way to make it work is if the minor is accompanied by their parent or guardian. That is where RLAG was until recently when the rules were ignored.

I personally (not as part of a group like ARR) have taken kids and even young women on rides. Just me as an adult and the "new" rider. I thought I was safe by keeping the GPS and a helmet camera running the whole time. If there was ever any question of what went on. I had some documentation. So the kid says I sexually abused them on the ride. But the GPS track shows I never stopped moving. So the adult (me) must have done an amazing act while on a separate bicycle and never stopped moving. If I ever stopped, the helmet camera was ALWAYS on. The video is even better because it captures audio and video. I can prove even what I said. Apparently, neither GPS nor video are enough any more. Thanks Larry Nasser. Thanks Federal government. At least the government was trying to do good things. But those unintended consequences happened again.

Edited by cxagent

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Thanks litigious society. 

I stopped substitute teaching because I was scared of the possibilities. It would only take one girl saying I looked down her shirt or whatever to cause me great troubles. No hobby/past time is worth that worry.

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Even if by some miracle you manage to guarantee a situation where no minor is ever alone with a single adult, you still aren't out of the woods.  Who is responsible for vetting that those adults aren't both child predators?  Parenting is hard and kids deserve every opportunity to explore activities that their parents might not be able to expose them to.  However, the adage of 'it takes a village' currently requires the parent of that child to accept the village might not a Norman Rockwell painting.

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1 hour ago, The Tip said:

Thanks litigious society. 

I stopped substitute teaching because I was scared of the possibilities. It would only take one girl saying I looked down her shirt or whatever to cause me great troubles. No hobby/past time is worth that worry.

I'm not aware that the law was put in place because of a law suit. I'd thank a rapey, victimizing society. 

To cxagent's point, it is not logistically easy to stay in compliance with a rule. What if a child decides on their own to run/ride off into the woods with another child? Do you split with your adult partner and create two groups? I had this happen when I was hiking with a group. Those kids were on their own, as far as I was concerned, and I simply notified their parents and other leaders that there were kids running around the woods (like they're supposed to do as kids, but against the nature of an organized hike).

But it's a rule for self protection and protection of the kids. It's not a law. IMO, an emergency would override the need to have two adults at all times. 

It's hard to have a rule that every kid must be accompanied by a parent because not all parents have bikes or can bike or want to bike. 

Much to consider.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, The Tip said:

Thanks litigious society. 

I understand your comment but don't think it is valid. From what I read about the gymnastics issue a while back - the problem with Larry Nasser was reported to the "NGO" (National Governing Organization) repeatedly. And time after time he was allowed to continue his examinations of young girls. At some point, I think an adult with any common sense at all would have decided that something was wrong enough to be investigated. Either that investigation never happened or it was buried. Again from what I read way back when, it was not until those young women were old enough to file lawsuits that a 'real investigation' was done. And the story got uglier and uglier from there.

ETA - I think this comment actually addresses Anita Handle's post. The law suit is what finally got a real investigation. The real investigation generated criminal charges and conviction. The news stories got the politicians to 'pile on' so it appeared they were doing something.

Anyway - I have said all I am going to say on this subject. It is not my problem anymore.

Edited by cxagent

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Ok, so it's settled. We ban both Single Speeders and any person under the age of 60 from everything?

I'll get the attorneys on this ASAP.

We will need signage, and probably maps.

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6 hours ago, ATXZJ said:

I think the fact that RLAG only rides during the hottest time of the year, and damn near work hours, will keep plenty of people off the trail. 

This has been one of the reasons my wife has never joined an RLAG weekday ride. 

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41 minutes ago, RidingAgain said:

This has been one of the reasons my wife has never joined an RLAG weekday ride. 

It makes zero sense.

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I completely agree with Anita Handle.  It’s all about preventing the horror of a Larry Nasser.  Hope he’s getting it good in prison.

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, ATXZJ said:

It makes zero sense.

Let's try this again...

You said... "I think the fact that RLAG only rides during the hottest time of the year, and damn near work hours, will keep plenty of people off the trail. "

My wife isn't able to make the weekday rides because of the early start time... She also doesn't like riding so early (even on weekends) because of the heat.

Hopefully you can now make sense of what I said.

Hopefully AntonioGG and the old man can make sense of it too.

Edited by RidingAgain
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No, I'm actually agreeing with you.  RLAG booking their rides during the worst time of the year, and during hours when most people have to work or tend to family doesn't make sense to me.

My wife saw the schedule as asked if all these people work from home. She also hates riding in the heat almost as much as I do.

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, RidingAgain said:

Hopefully the old man can make sense of it too.

Why the fuck would you even have to say this? I guaranty that if we met in person you wouldn't have the balls to talk shit like this. Fugging po0sie.

Edited by TheX

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