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Full face helmet at Walnut?


TheX

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2 hours ago, Ridenfool said:

There is much truth in AB's strategy. Overcoming the FSS (false sense of safety) that wearing protective gear can lead to is not something everyone can consistently accomplish.

I've never wore pads and likely never will, but don't believe that if I did I would feel any safer. Maybe that argument would hold true with complete body armor, but I have to believe that only a small percentage of MTB injuries would be prevented by knee pads or elbow pads. And I'm not talking about scrapes and bruises, which don't concern me. I've injured shoulder/chest, ribs, toes, fingers, neck, face, and now hamstring while mountain biking. None of these would have been prevented by wearing knee or elbow pads. 

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24 minutes ago, throet said:

I've never wore pads and likely never will, but don't believe that if I did I would feel any safer. Maybe that argument would hold true with complete body armor, but I have to believe that only a small percentage of MTB injuries would be prevented by knee pads or elbow pads. And I'm not talking about scrapes and bruises, which don't concern me. I've injured shoulder/chest, ribs, toes, fingers, neck, face, and now hamstring while mountain biking. None of these would have been prevented by wearing knee or elbow pads. 

I think that is the best point being shared about being mentally aware of how the armor only does so much.

Still, some riders may push a little harder when they have armor. Some may not. Some may push the envelope regardless, just because they find that fun and are willing to accept the consequences.

Some get injured, others may routinely avoid injury, regardless of whether they have armor.

I've occupied each of those pigeon holes at one time or another. The problem isn't about the armor, it is about being aware of how wearing protection may affect our mental processes. This aspect of the human condition is subtle and it can vary in a moment based upon the circumstances and how our ego deals with them. If a person thinks something has given them an edge and they push beyond the limits they will answer for their miscalculation that led to loss of control. Often exceeding the thin margin of protection the armor was able to provide in the process.

I used to be good at falling down and getting back up to carry on. Now, after some hard lessons over decades of riding I'm content to take it easy, enjoy the ride, and try to leave my ego at the trailhead to patiently await my return. 😎

Even so, if I'm gonna wear a helmet anyway, is there good reason not wear a full face all the time if it is just another helmet to me? Or, should I wait until I have achieved the purple face at least once before making that choice? It is a conundrum.

Edited by Ridenfool
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5 minutes ago, Ridenfool said:

Even so, if I'm gonna wear a helmet anyway, is there good reason not wear a full face all the time if it is just another helmet to me? Or, should I wait until I have achieved the purple face at least once before making that choice? It is a conundrum.

My opinion on this would have been different a week ago.

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55 minutes ago, Ridenfool said:

Even so, if I'm gonna wear a helmet anyway, is there good reason not wear a full face all the time if it is just another helmet to me? Or, should I wait until I have achieved the purple face at least once before making that choice? It is a conundrum.

I commend this type of thinking and @TheX's decision to go full-face. Like TheX, I am 60 and feel like I may need to make adjustments in order to preserve as much riding time over the next 10-15 years as possible. My problem is that I didn't start riding until 53yrs old and have progressed significantly year-over-year in terms of my riding skills. I feel like I could continue to progress - do bigger drops and bigger jumps, go faster down steep terrain, etc. Being sidelined with a serious injury now though I'm having to rethink these things. Don't be surprised if my new long-travel bike ends up on the Bikes for Sale thread at some point during my recovery (may even throw in my once-used FF helmet).  

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1 hour ago, AntonioGG said:

First off, they got a lot of nerve calling people homeostasises when they haven't even met them. (taking redneck hat off now)

That article was quite well done, putting into words the challenging to explain and define dynamics behind these subtleties that affect our decision-making processes.

Knowledge is power, and the more we think about what we think about and how we came to hold that perspective the better any person can be at avoiding setting themselves up for a fall. Literally, in the MTB sense.

To some degree adages like "Familiarity breeds contempt" and "You can't teach an old dog new tricks" come immediately to mind, along with the wisdom quietly hidden behind these sayings once they have been pondered upon into the depths they can reveal in ourselves when given the opportunity.

Thanks for the link!

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I grew up riding dirt bikes and slowly accumulated all of the Armor and rode with it every time. Each piece saved countless scrapes, bruises, punctures, fractures, etc.

  • Full Face Helmet w/ goggles
  • Neck Roll
  • Chest/Back protector
  • Ballistic Nylon Jacket w/ various pads including Elbow/Forearm (wore when temps were below 70)
  • Knee Pads
  • MX boots
  • Kevlar pants (exhaust protection)

I even had a friend who rode with a activity specific cup after an ill fated incident with a gas tank collision...

I feel naked riding my MTB with only gloves and a helmet and occasionally knee pads. I did have a full face MTB helmet (Giro Remedy) which I smashed on a bad landing off a drop. It saved my pretty face from the hardpack and back of my head from my seat impact. My other helmet was a basic Costco special with minimal protection so I am glad to have worn it. I've since compromised and don't try to ride aggressively, just enough to get from A-B and get a workout. I also ride with a TLD A-1 which, for me, is a much more modern helmet with better protection, though not as good as a full face. The detachable chin guard helmets were still expensive last time I went helmet shopping but I will definitely look at them again next time. 

 

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4 minutes ago, throet said:

I commend this type of thinking and @TheX's decision to go full-face. Like TheX, I am 60 and feel like I may need to make adjustments in order to preserve as much riding time over the next 10-15 years as possible. My problem is that I didn't start riding until 53yrs old and have progressed significantly year-over-year in terms of my riding skills. I feel like I could continue to progress - do bigger drops and bigger jumps, go faster down steep terrain, etc. Being sidelined with a serious injury now though I'm having to rethink these things. Don't be surprised if my new long-travel bike ends up on the Bikes for Sale thread at some point during my recovery (may even throw in my once-used FF helmet).  

My biggest decision-making as far as de-risk has to do with how essential I am to my family and my job.  I do want to learn how to do some of those drops, etc.  But I'm totally OK not doing that.  I get my thrill doing the endurance XC long rides and training for them.   I'll ask for an update in the injury thread.

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4 hours ago, throet said:

I've never wore pads and likely never will, but don't believe that if I did I would feel any safer. Maybe that argument would hold true with complete body armor, but I have to believe that only a small percentage of MTB injuries would be prevented by knee pads or elbow pads. And I'm not talking about scrapes and bruises, which don't concern me. I've injured shoulder/chest, ribs, toes, fingers, neck, face, and now hamstring while mountain biking. None of these would have been prevented by wearing knee or elbow pads. 

Next time you go for a ride try this. Shoes, helmet and a swimsuit. Nothing else. Let me know how much safer you ride 😉

I can tell you that I am more aggressive in the colder weather with layers and long sleeves relative to hotter weather.

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3 minutes ago, throet said:

Well that's certainly one way to have the trail all to myself! 

Makes me recall the thong rider in SA that was on Mojo. He rode everywhere, to work, or trail, wearing only a thong. I'm happy to have never had to witness that first-hand and still wish nobody had posted pics.

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1 hour ago, Ridenfool said:

Makes me recall the thong rider in SA that was on Mojo. He rode everywhere, to work, or trail, wearing only a thong. I'm happy to have never had to witness that first-hand and still wish nobody had posted pics.

I have ridden behind him (and drank night train at his house before a ride...in the morning.)

Not as bad as the 2 thong guys in Austin (north and south).

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9 minutes ago, AustinBike said:

I have ridden behind him (and drank night train at his house before a ride...in the morning.)

Not as bad as the 2 thong guys in Austin (north and south).

I guess that means Night Train can be utilized as eye/mind bleach. A useful all around solvent. :classic_biggrin:

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On 8/21/2019 at 6:08 AM, AustinBike said:

I have another angle on this.

I don't own pads, I don't wear pads (that may change one day, especially for a place like Bentonville.)

My reasoning is pretty simple. In my mind, having pads will encourage me to take more risks. I believe I am more likely to crash with pads on because I am doing something that is outside of my comfort zone.

There are those that argue that to have fun you need to always be outside of your comfort zone and always need to be pushing for more. I disagree with this position. I have a ton of fun riding at my skill level and I do push myself, but I take smart risks, not stupid risks. I believe pads would encourage stupid risks so I stay clear, for now.

In my case when I pad up/FF up I am typically super focused and rarely wreck! My worse wrecks seem to be when I lose focus on a relatively easy section and so now I almost always wear my g-form knee pads for every ride.

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Great ride, temps in the '70s. I have spent so many hours wearing full face motorcycle helmets that the Bell feels like nothing. I can see where it would be a BIG change for someone that has never worn one at all. I did kind of feel like I was wearing a neon sign that said "look at me" but I got over that really quickly.

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26 minutes ago, TheX said:

Great ride, temps in the '70s. I have spent so many hours wearing full face motorcycle helmets that the Bell feels like nothing. I can see where it would be a BIG change for someone that has never worn one at all. I did kind of feel like I was wearing a neon sign that said "look at me" but I got over that really quickly.

That’s awesome, I have the 3r also and will wear it full face during cedar season when I wear goggles to protect my eyes. I have noticed that even though I don’t change my riding style and feel like I’m a very courteous trail user people are more easily offended when I’m full face.  

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On 8/21/2019 at 11:03 AM, throet said:

I commend this type of thinking and @TheX's decision to go full-face. Like TheX, I am 60 and feel like I may need to make adjustments in order to preserve as much riding time over the next 10-15 years as possible. My problem is that I didn't start riding until 53yrs old and have progressed significantly year-over-year in terms of my riding skills. I feel like I could continue to progress - do bigger drops and bigger jumps, go faster down steep terrain, etc. Being sidelined with a serious injury now though I'm having to rethink these things. Don't be surprised if my new long-travel bike ends up on the Bikes for Sale thread at some point during my recovery (may even throw in my once-used FF helmet).  

Don't like to hear this, I know you have the skill 

already to do all the drops at brushy and I know you would love it.   Waiting for you to recover. I have morning riding time again

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On 8/21/2019 at 9:48 AM, Ridenfool said:

 

Even so, if I'm gonna wear a helmet anyway, is there good reason not wear a full face all the time if it is just another helmet to me? Or, should I wait until I have achieved the purple face at least once before making that choice? It is a conundrum.

I will share a story that I am telling to help you decide.

I played intramural hockey in college. I played for awhile and couldn't decide whether to wear a mouth guard or not. After catching a puck in my teeth that required stitches inside my lip and cracked my tooth, I decided, "yup, I should get a mouth guard."

So while I'm at the store getting it I look at helmets trying to decide to get one or not. This was back in history when not many people wore helmets. Hard to imagine, right? But I decided, "naw, don't need it." About three games later, WHAM! I went down hard, on my head of course. I got a helmet after that! 

So the moral might be to not be as adept at closing that barn door after the cows are gone as I was. Because you will really feel dumb if indeed you do crash now and that full face could have helped.

 

 

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