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11 speed on a 10-speed hub....

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OK, I have an issue that I am hoping to resolve. Been switching around a lot of components and it seems like my new 11-speed drive train is not compatible with my 10-speed Chris King hub.

Interestingly, it worked well on the 135mm King hub, but it does not seem to work on the 142mm King hub. Must be the width of the hub giving it a problem.

You can see from the picture below where the cassette is hitting the spokes (worn and silver vs. black).

It feels like either a small shim would work or possibly grinding down the cassette a bit..... But what problem does that create?

If I switch back to the 135mm wheel set my 11-speed will work, but that is a pain in the butt and it messes up my other bike with the swap.

Any thoughts?

IMG_4640.jpg

Edited by AustinBike

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I’ve a 142 rear rim just sitting here, if you want to try it. Stan’s Flow with a Hope hub, pretty sure it used to have an 11 speed cassette on it.

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16 minutes ago, TAF said:

I’ve a 142 rear rim just sitting here, if you want to try it. Stan’s Flow with a Hope hub, pretty sure it used to have an 11 speed cassette on it.

Might try that if I can't get this thing sorted out. It messes up everything if I have to swap back to 135, but that might work and just hasten my move to a new bike.

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I think my options at this point are:

A. 142mm with 10-speed (11-42 cassette and a goat link) on Arch EX (thinner rims) - newer wheels.

B. 135mm with 11-speed (11-46 cassette) on Arch MK3 (wider rims) but with a small crack on one of the spoke holes and a wonky cassette lock ring that comes loose occasionally.

The frame has replaceable dropouts so I can use either.

If I stick with the 135 on this bike, it hastens me getting a new bike but also screws up me selling my hardtail.

Maybe I just get rid of all of the bikes and become a hermit.

Below is the crack on the 135mm rim. Clearly I cannot true the hub because of that crack, and that is part of what started this whole chain. How bad does that look? Getting ready for a trip to Bentonville with 4-5 days of riding, so I am trying to figure out the best combination for the trip.

 

IMG_4649.jpg

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Is the wheel that has the cassette rubbing on the spokes the same hub as the one that the cassette lock ring kept loosening up? This all seems very strange if you pull off your cassettes you should be able to measure the depth of the splines and relative lengths of things between the two hubs. Something seems wrong.


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The only thing that should be different between a 142 hub and a 135 hub from the King should be the axle, no? Shouldn’t you be able to swap freehub bodies between the two hubs?


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1 hour ago, Anita Handle said:

Is the wheel that has the cassette rubbing on the spokes the same hub as the one that the cassette lock ring kept loosening up? This all seems very strange if you pull off your cassettes you should be able to measure the depth of the splines and relative lengths of things between the two hubs. Something seems wrong.


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I actually pulled both free hubs and compared them. They are identical. The difference between the two *should* be the axle, but when I put the 10-speed on either there is no issue. When I put the 11-speed on the 142 it rubs, on the 135 it runs smoothly (I had been running it for about a month on the 135 with no issues.

I just tore everything apart and rebuilt the Niner (older bike) back up the way it was, 135, 11-speed) and all is good. Will ride that tomorrow.

If that truly runs fine, that will be my bike and I will start the long search for a bike (not gonna happen before Bentonville). Probably pull the trigger around November or December if not some time early next year.

The hardtail will get built up with a sweeter build now (pike, better king wheels) and will probably get sold.

Ah, the joys of bike ownership.

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The free hubs may look the same but the shoulder where the cassette makes contact on the free hub may be different heights. I only know this because of the Hope hubs I have on my HT. The Hope hubs require a spacer behind the cassette for 10/11 speed Shimano to get the correct spacing. I have an extra spacer I'll let you have if you're interested.

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I too have a spacing issue on my powertap wheel ever since I got the XD freehub for it.  My spacing issue only relates to having the gears line up when switching wheels though, not rubbing on spokes, but I have been looking for an appropriate spacer.

Found this handy article with a table but it says 11spd cassette on 10spd or 9/10spd freehub is not compatible.  What specific freehub do you have?

https://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/Cassette_How-To_-_Part_2_3257.html

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I believe 9 thru 11 are compatible on a Shimano free hub. Meaning a free hub made by Shimano not Shimano compatible.

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All of this is rapidly becoming a non-issue. Basically have come to the conclusion that I have a garage full of bikes and parts that are a.) older spec and becoming harder to match up with newer components and b.) increasingly seeing more wear and tear from daily use.

My strategy has changed.

I am now shopping for a bike instead. Sadly everything new is 148mm (and increasingly 12-speed) so I think that I will be having a huge garage sale. Pretty much my (boost) pike is the only thing that will survive. And my Shimano brakes. Everything else will need to go. 

Contenders at this point are:

Santa Cruz Hightower or Tallboy

Ibis Ripley or Ripmo

Specialized Stumpjumper 

Maybe a Trek, Pivot or Devinci will hit my radar screen as well. Should be an interesting few months.

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Wow, some great choices on that list. I love shopping for new bikes...but I don't get to do it very often.

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I hate shopping for bikes. If I knew that I could find someone to make the 100% right decision for me I'd give them my money and go have a beer while I wait for them to bring a bike to me. Sadly, that is not how it works.

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My 27.5 Tallboy is very similar in geometry to a Trail 429. Take it for a spin if you want to. 

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I'm getting ready to start shopping for an enduro bike for next year. I have a gravel bike, and an XC (100 mm travel) which do fine for me, but I really want to see what the enduro world has to offer.

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10 minutes ago, TAF said:

My 27.5 Tallboy is very similar in geometry to a Trail 429. Take it for a spin if you want to. 

Is it a large? If so I might take a spin at an R&I sometime.

 

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8 minutes ago, AustinBike said:

Is it a large? If so I might take a spin at an R&I sometime.

Yup

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1 hour ago, ATXZJ said:

Saw the new tallboy Saturday and it looks pretty freaking sweet. 

Who had it in stock? Dropped into BSS Parmer after my Brushy ride today and they did not seem to have one, were pushing me to the Hightower which is nice, but more bike than a guy like me needs. 130mm should do fine for me.

Edited by AustinBike

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Saw it at the syndicate truck during DH event this weekend. Also a lot of the SC support staff was also riding them. Should have taken some pics but there was a lot going on around them during the races.

In CTX, i'd be down for one over a HT for sure.

Edited by ATXZJ

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Ibis Ripley, Devinci Django, and Pivot 429 Trail would be on my shortlist. All are very efficient peddlers while being quite capable going down steep stuff. The Ripmo & Hightower are awesome as well but probably more bike than you're wanting. For riding around here and the occasional trip to Gnarkansas-like destinations, I would think you can't go wrong with any of the DW-link bikes in the 130 travel flavor. My top pick would be the Ripley. Considering it's an Ibis, they're actually are attainable at below boutique prices as well.

I'm happy to take your money though and order you up something like this...Ibis Ripmo XT build with i9 hubs and Cane Creek Helm fork.

If you don't care about things like Kashima Coat on your suspension and XT, then $5099 gets you a stock Ripley with SLX. Not bad at all.

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6 hours ago, Teamsloan said:

Ibis Ripley, Devinci Django, and Pivot 429 Trail would be on my shortlist. All are very efficient peddlers while being quite capable going down steep stuff. The Ripmo & Hightower are awesome as well but probably more bike than you're wanting. For riding around here and the occasional trip to Gnarkansas-like destinations, I would think you can't go wrong with any of the DW-link bikes in the 130 travel flavor. My top pick would be the Ripley. Considering it's an Ibis, they're actually are attainable at below boutique prices as well.

I'm happy to take your money though and order you up something like this...Ibis Ripmo XT build with i9 hubs and Cane Creek Helm fork.

If you don't care about things like Kashima Coat on your suspension and XT, then $5099 gets you a stock Ripley with SLX. Not bad at all.

Yeah, I used your tool, it is very cool. Have some definite UI points that we should talk about over a beer some Tuesday night.

https://cyclingbuilder.com/user/AustinBike/saved/#view=968TwP

Since I have a Pike boost and pedals, It looks like I could build up a Ripley for ~$1600-2000 + frame cost. Considering my budget is ~$4K this could be a real good option. Heading down to talk to Wes today about the bike, might even demo one. I think Abrams is right that the Ripmo is more bike than I can handle, it's just not me.

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