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Balcones Park and Northern Walnut Creek Trail


WatersPark
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FYI - I realize paved trails are not the main focus of this site, but Balcones to Walnut has been my ride since around 1994, before it was paved.  I really didn't care for a paved trail personally as was a fun adventure to mix trails and streets back in the day, but the idea had merit, to provide an all-weather path, that serves commuters, families and others besides folks that just like to ride in the woods.  The way I see it if you are going to do something, do it right.  And if you are going to build a trail through a park, leave it as good or better than when you began.   So I am posting here to see if anyone wants to help make the City do just that.  

Attention Balcones Park and Northern Walnut Creek Trail users - the city is about to make some repairs of the worst defects in the newly constructed trail, but is refusing to address the continuing migration of gravel, improper slope stabilization and spreading of cracks in the pavement, Please see the Milwood NA website for more information - http://milwoodna.com/

Thanks for reading.

 

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44 minutes ago, WatersPark said:

FYI - I realize paved trails are not the main focus of this site, but Balcones to Walnut has been my ride since around 1994, before it was paved.  I really didn't care for a paved trail personally as was a fun adventure to mix trails and streets back in the day, but the idea had merit, to provide an all-weather path, that serves commuters, families and others besides folks that just like to ride in the woods.  The way I see it if you are going to do something, do it right.  And if you are going to build a trail through a park, leave it as good or better than when you began.   So I am posting here to see if anyone wants to help make the City do just that.  

Attention Balcones Park and Northern Walnut Creek Trail users - the city is about to make some repairs of the worst defects in the newly constructed trail, but is refusing to address the continuing migration of gravel, improper slope stabilization and spreading of cracks in the pavement, Please see the Milwood NA website for more information - http://milwoodna.com/

Thanks for reading.

 

Unfortunately, I think the blame probably should fall on the contractor, not the city. Shotty work for outrageous prices seems to be norm around here due to the amount of work available. The city probably didn't budget to have to repair this so soon. 

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Yeah, I know which section you're talking about without even looking at the site.   I knew it'd be a problem and start cracking eventually - and the gravel fill they've been using makes it super sketchy on a road bike.   I'm not sure who looked at it and thought 'this is good!' and signed off on it.

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I live in Milwood and I'm kind of against this. My main concern is that replacing the whole path would mean it would be closed for multiple years while they do it. I would rather it just stay open in whatever state it's in. It doesn't need to be super pristine for hikers, joggers, or us. I've never seen a wheelchair or rollerblader on it, and some parts are likely too steep for either. Commuters can use Duval or Adelphi/Waters Park. So is this just for people that don't like to ride their road bikes on roads?

I would much rather see widening for sidewalks and/or bike lanes on Waters Park Road to make those new "sidewalks to nowhere" on Adelphi more useful.

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1 hour ago, ebflo said:

I live in Milwood and I'm kind of against this. My main concern is that replacing the whole path would mean it would be closed for multiple years while they do it. I would rather it just stay open in whatever state it's in. It doesn't need to be super pristine for hikers, joggers, or us. I've never seen a wheelchair or rollerblader on it, and some parts are likely too steep for either. Commuters can use Duval or Adelphi/Waters Park. So is this just for people that don't like to ride their road bikes on roads?

I would much rather see widening for sidewalks and/or bike lanes on Waters Park Road to make those new "sidewalks to nowhere" on Adelphi more useful.

I don't think much is needed.  I just think they'd need to add in some channels to direct water and repair a small portion of trail.   There's only one spot where I think it'll just continue to get worse and if they added in a concrete channel on both sides and a place for water to flow under the trail with reinforcement, it'd be fine.   Probably would involve adding 30 ft of channels and replacing one slab for something under the trail.

I will disagree about using Duval for commuting, though.   Mopac - Duval is pretty heavily traffic during commute times and I personally wouldn't feel safe riding it if I had to commute there.  The trail lets you at least get out at Duval close to the bike lanes.

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25 minutes ago, fontarin said:

I will disagree about using Duval for commuting, though.   Mopac - Duval is pretty heavily traffic during commute times and I personally wouldn't feel safe riding it if I had to commute there.  The trail lets you at least get out at Duval close to the bike lanes.

As a regular commuter who travels that area frequently, as a PSA, I wanted to chime in and say that taking the south side sidewalk from Mopac all the way to the RR tracks is a very safe and viable options.  There's very little ingress and egress.  Once I cross the RR tracks, I'm usually dropping into Balcones Woods and zig zagging south over to Jollyville.  If I'm generally heading 'northern' on Jollyville, then shortly after RR tracks, I will move over to the West-bound bike lane (and occasionally up onto that sidewalk if its during rush hour).  As usual YMMV.

Later,
CJB

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29 minutes ago, fontarin said:

I don't think much is needed.  I just think they'd need to add in some channels to direct water and repair a small portion of trail.   There's only one spot where I think it'll just continue to get worse and if they added in a concrete channel on both sides and a place for water to flow under the trail with reinforcement, it'd be fine.   Probably would involve adding 30 ft of channels and replacing one slab for something under the trail.

I will disagree about using Duval for commuting, though.   Mopac - Duval is pretty heavily traffic during commute times and I personally wouldn't feel safe riding it if I had to commute there.  The trail lets you at least get out at Duval close to the bike lanes.

That sounds fine, but it looked like the Milwood NA initiative linked by the OP is calling to have the whole path ripped and replaced.

 

Commuting, I just use the sidewalk on the south side of Duval. Not ideal, but it's not for very far and there are almost never pedestrians on it.

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Not the whole path, just the strip of flex base (crushed limestone).  Vegetation will never take hold in crushed limestone.  They could do this in 2 days if they set there mind to it.  The "sidewalk to nowhere" on adelphi gives kids a safe path to school.   The apartment complex scammed their way out of improving the road to current standards and the sidewalk program had some money at that time so the neighborhoods jumped on it.  It would be nice to extend it for sure, but almost all of Waters Park road is in the floodplain. The city isn't ever going to upgrade it.

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24 minutes ago, WatersPark said:

Not the whole path, just the strip of flex base (crushed limestone).  Vegetation will never take hold in crushed limestone.  They could do this in 2 days if they set there mind to it.  The "sidewalk to nowhere" on adelphi gives kids a safe path to school.   The apartment complex scammed their way out of improving the road to current standards and the sidewalk program had some money at that time so the neighborhoods jumped on it.  It would be nice to extend it for sure, but almost all of Waters Park road is in the floodplain. The city isn't ever going to upgrade it.

Thanks, good info. I thought replacing all the base meant the base under the path, good to know it is just the side fill. Shame about Waters Park Rd, it's a great route, but a bit sketchy by the Hideout on a Friday evening. Especially when I don't have time to stop in for a beer.

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I'll use this as an opportunity to kvetch at little bit about the lack of design for both the Southern and Northern multi-use paths.  Even the southern path starting in Govalle Park still has issues with mud, gravel and sand on the trail after rains.  STILL.

I knew when the Northern trail went in those same issues would arise and they did. A lot of work days went into addressing those issues. 

Hoping in the future that when the initial planning takes place that the verge will be appropriately graded away from the path and drains installed to keep mud and gravel off the paved trail.  

I love having the multi-use path going under MoPac; I use it three or four times a month to go to the library on Amherst. 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Bamwa said:

What kind of crybaby post is this? Mountain bikes are more than able to conquer a little washout here and there.

Look, I get not wanting to sanitize the trails too much, but did you see the .pdf? That crack is almost half the height of a penny! How the hell am I supposed to ride up that?

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5 hours ago, Bamwa said:

What kind of crybaby post is this? Mountain bikes are more than able to conquer a little washout here and there.

Wow! Missed the point (s) entirely.

1) this isn't a mtb trail, it is supposed to be a shared use path, or users of all ages and abilities.

2) it is a quality issue, would anyone be satisfied if you had a new driveway poured and it cracked 3 months later. Btw the penny picture was in April, the crack has grown laterally and the vertical displacement has increased. 

No tears, no sanitizing, just want it done right

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I met with Erik (OP) earlier today and walked the area.  He had excellent points. 

Some more infographics like this one could help.   "Replace the base" rhymes but it's not a clear message.   I knew that the side material was "road base." Most people do not.  They would think that you want the entire sidewalk ripped up and replace the base material under the sidewalk. 

 

p5pb17787891.jpg

 

 

Edited by cmc4130
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Thanks for the feedback.  I actually tweaked the language this AM after feedback here yesterday, and talking to a few other folks.  But I forgot to update the post on our website.  It is updated now.   I'll take another look and see if I can clarify further that we are just talking about 1) replacing the flex base along the trail with soil, seed and erosion control matting, and 2) replacing the concrete sections that have separating cracks (about 50 feet in all).  To repeat, we are not asking them to tear out all the pavement.  The City is going to be doing some of this work anyway - our issue is they are only planning to do about 1/3 of the trail in the worst areas that already failed.  Other areas are showing signs of failure.  The idea to use flex base to backfill the sides of the trail was clearly flawed and hasn't been used anywhere else.  Basically their experiment failed and they want us to just live with it.  

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2 hours ago, WatersPark said:

Thanks for the feedback.  I actually tweaked the language this AM after feedback here yesterday, and talking to a few other folks.  But I forgot to update the post on our website.  It is updated now.   I'll take another look and see if I can clarify further that we are just talking about 1) replacing the flex base along the trail with soil, seed and erosion control matting, and 2) replacing the concrete sections that have separating cracks (about 50 feet in all).  To repeat, we are not asking them to tear out all the pavement.  The City is going to be doing some of this work anyway - our issue is they are only planning to do about 1/3 of the trail in the worst areas that already failed.  Other areas are showing signs of failure.  The idea to use flex base to backfill the sides of the trail was clearly flawed and hasn't been used anywhere else.  Basically their experiment failed and they want us to just live with it.  

I’ve sort of been following along - will any of the repair work be on the concrete path which runs through Balcones Park, and will the path be closed while repairs take place?

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My bad that is a ton of gravel. Gonna need a new cyclo x bike for that. N + 1 for shizzle! The pics I saw were just erosion run off. Call the man or get a broom?  It muds at Gracywoods Park too but I think it's just a thing that will get better after a few years monitoring the initial job. Maybe some regrading here or there. ARR knows how that is. As for the crack........SEND EM BACK, this ain't 12th and Chicon!

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6 hours ago, TAF said:

I’ve sort of been following along - will any of the repair work be on the concrete path which runs through Balcones Park, and will the path be closed while repairs take place?

Yes the section from the ballfield near Scribe Avenue to Amherst is the section where they experimented with flex base to back fill the shoulders.  We told them the flex base would erode, but they didn't listen.  

They will definitely have to close the path to replace the cracked pavement -they are planning to repair the original crack, but it has since migrated to the adjacent concrete and they have said that the crack is superficial, even though it has opened up a gap over this summer.  If we follow their plan the trail will be closed again to fix this section.  They can do it all now and we can be done with it.

I imagine they will have to close the path at least when they are working on the flex base, they might be able to open it at the end of the workday and/or weekends, but I would not count on it.  Fortunately, the neighborhood got a grant to replace the eroded sections of the "Creekside Trail" that provides an alternate route (this takes you to Duval and beyond),

I for one can't wait until this is done so I can get working on restoring the connections to single track (there isn't a lot of single track in Balcones, but there are some nice side trails that get you off the shared use path for a little off-road enjoyment.

Edited by WatersPark
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1 hour ago, WatersPark said:

Fortunately, the neighborhood got a grant to replace the eroded sections of the "Creekside Trail" that provides an alternate route

Are their any plans for the persistent flooding? One section of that was under water to BB depth for most of last spring. Probably just a creek blockage issue.

1 hour ago, WatersPark said:

I for one can't wait until this is done so I can get working on restoring the connections to single track (there isn't a lot of single track in Balcones, but there are some nice side trails that get you off the shared use path for a little off-road enjoyment.

Are these ok to talk about here? I don't have much spare time, but I'd like to help with this if I can.

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2 hours ago, WatersPark said:

Yes the section from the ballfield near Scribe Avenue to Amherst is the section where they experimented with flex base to back fill the shoulders.  We told them the flex base would erode, but they didn't listen.  

They will definitely have to close the path to replace the cracked pavement -they are planning to repair the original crack, but it has since migrated to the adjacent concrete and they have said that the crack is superficial, even though it has opened up a gap over this summer.  If we follow their plan the trail will be closed again to fix this section.  They can do it all now and we can be done with it.

I imagine they will have to close the path at least when they are working on the flex base, they might be able to open it at the end of the workday and/or weekends, but I would not count on it.  Fortunately, the neighborhood got a grant to replace the eroded sections of the "Creekside Trail" that provides an alternate route (this takes you to Duval and beyond),

Please keep us posted - the EB is Sat, Oct 19, and it would be handy to know ahead of time if there are any possible trail closures. Thanks!

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1 hour ago, ebflo said:

Are their any plans for the persistent flooding? One section of that was under water to BB depth for most of last spring. Probably just a creek blockage issue.

Are these ok to talk about here? I don't have much spare time, but I'd like to help with this if I can.

Yes, we had city approval for a short new trail added in 2016, others have been there as long as I can recall (moved here in 1994). I will keep you posted!

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