Since The Subject of an Austin MTB Print Magazine Has Come up...

[notyal]

6 hours ago, RidingAgain said:

Yeh... 

You know... I don't force anyone to come to this thread and participate on it.

I just brought up an idea of a local-focused mountain bike magazine... Which is an idea you said you would support with interest.

And I'm thinking you don't think of yourself as delusional.

And if you do not think that both TheX and ATXZJ are asshole trolls... Then... Delusional... Back at ya.

Again, context means something. You may have not of "forced" anyone in participating in this thread, but you openly invited participation by posting it on a public forum.

I said that I would pick up such a magazine and probably even enjoy the content. However, I don't think it would be sustainable. That's the one thing I keep asking you to explain. How will this publication survive financially in a shriveling industry?

I may have my own delusions. Yours seem more apparent. 

I have never mentioned TheX or ATXZJ. Your petty quarrels with those guys are your own. I have only taken aim at two things in this thread: the magazine idea and your debate tactics. So far, both have had very predictable ends. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by notyal

[Bamwa]

Page 1 How to get trails banned. Page 2 By having a magazine about them. Please watch fight club or google it's rules. Or just go back to Florida. You really seem like what I imagine raising a teenager is like when they just don't listen or get it. Go do your stupid magazine if you want but leave the bs off this community forum. Just do it on your own. F us. Please. But then someday when you mature beyond 14 or wherever you're stuck at, you will realize biking is about biking and the best thing you can do to preserve it is to stfu about it.

[RidingAgain]

14 hours ago, notyal said:

Again, context means something. You may have not of "forced" anyone in participating in this thread, but you openly invited participation by posting it on a public forum.

I said that I would pick up such a magazine and probably even enjoy the content. However, I don't think it would be sustainable. That's the one thing I keep asking you to explain. How will this publication survive financially in a shriveling industry?

I may have my own delusions. Yours seem more apparent. 

I have never mentioned TheX or ATXZJ. Your petty quarrels with those guys are your own. I have only taken aim at two things in this thread: the magazine idea and your debate tactics. So far, both have had very predictable ends. 

"...Again, context means something."

Absolutely. It's what I try hard to maintain in discussions I have.

 "...You may have not of "forced" anyone in participating in this thread, but you openly invited participation by posting it on a public forum."

Again... Absolutely. I fully understand what a public forum is and what can and often does happen on public forums. But the context of my comment was that of participants who are upset/have a bone to pick with the person who created the thread and only participate through disruptive comments, adding noting of value to the discussion. Instead of deliberately disrupting a discussion (called trolling), they should simply not participate. Which was my point/context.

As you said... "...context means something."

"...I said that I would pick up such a magazine and probably even enjoy the content."

Yes you did. And that's all I said you said.

"...However, I don't think it would be sustainable. That's the one thing I keep asking you to explain. How will this publication survive financially in a shriveling industry?"

And, although perhaps not to the degree you desire, I have addressed this... But will do so in a more detailed way below...

First... A magazine doesn't need to be monthly, bi-monthly, quarterly, or even bi-annually... A magazine can be published once a year. And I have worked with a group of people (a husband and wife team) who did just that, and did so very successfully — financially speaking. No, it wasn't a multi-million dollar business, but that's not what they were after. They targeted a niche market (one of the most financially wealthy markets in the US) in a very specific geographic location, and provided content that directly addressed the needs of this niche market. It was so successful that every year they had standing orders from customers before the magazine was printed. I believe this can be done successfully here in the Austin/Central Texas area. But the key is identifying and presenting the content that directly addresses the needs of the targeted market.

Second... Unlike pre-digital age, today it isn't difficult to find out about the needs of markets. Even forums like this one are great research assets for doing just that. Relevant Magazine (https://relevantmagazine.com... and please, this is just used as an example, not to bring up religion), began as a book publisher that then created an online forum-based website, with the intention of producing a print magazine using insight gained from the forums for content development purposes, which the publisher did maybe a year later. It's now been around for twenty years. Content is king... That's how it's always been with consumer markets. If you have what the consumer is looking for, the consumer will come to, and support you. And I can't tell you how many people I've come across who want more info on trails in the Austin area, and mountain biking in general. So the magazine should be consumer need driven.

Third... To one degree or another, and in one way or another, the Austin area has tens of thousands — if not hundreds of thousands — of outdoor activity participants, but trying to produce a single magazine that caters to all outdoor activity groups would be a huge task, and quite possibly an unsuccessful effort. On the other hand, the local mountain biking community is relatively small and a magazine publisher solely focused on local community mountain biking may find it difficult to generate the financial income needed to profitably produce a magazine. Yet, if the publisher approaches the matter from the point of view of "...trail..." use, then immediately they would widen the potential market for their magazine. Enter the "...urban hiking..." trend, a fairly new and growing outdoor activity taking place within cities across the US. If the publisher encompasses both mountain biking and urban hiking content within their magazine (and I've seen where mountain bikers on this website do both), then they would possibly double or even triple their potential consumer market... And not just in readership, but more importantly, in demographics... Which is crucial to generating interests from advertisers and widening the scope of your potential advertiser base.

Fourth... You keep introducing the thought that published magazines industry is a "... shriveling industry...". And yet actual facts state otherwise. As I have already said, yes, the industry went through huge turmoil for maybe two decades, but today there is still a very healthy/profitable (albeit somewhat smaller) industry continuing to exist. And nowhere is there any indication that this is going to change in the near future — next five years. Fact is, many publishers have managed to find a sweet spot between providing both digital and print publishing, and this is what I'd suggest be pursued by a local "...trail..." use publisher. And doing this would add yet another income generating source for the publisher.

Fifth... Start up finances can be sourced in multiple ways, including through grants (https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/whiting-foundation-announces-120k-in-grants-for-magazines/). An outdoor activities focused magazine is supporting/promoting the idea of citizens having a more healthy lifestyle, which is most certainly one of the matters at the forefront of today's society. Additionally, the company can be set up as a non-profit business, which would help offset associated costs, and open up the potential for financial donors who are looking to support things that also offer tax write-offs.

Sixth... Ancillary efforts are possible, such as related website/app development, ongoing sponsorship deals, product sales (t-shirts and caps), and sponsored event staging. The key, notyal, is not to be narrow in what the possible contact points with the consumer are, and what the consumer wants, or would be willing to participate in. A magazine is simply a point of contact with a consumer. One point of contact. But it is a point of contact through which multiple interactions can be developed/generated. And in this is potential to produce financial income beyond the basic advertising and subscription income normally associated with magazine publishing.

Hope the above helps.

Back to your quoted speaking...

"...I may have my own delusions. Yours seem more apparent."

I'm a believer who isn't afraid of speaking my thoughts, what can I say.

"...I have never mentioned TheX or ATXZJ. Your petty quarrels with those guys are your own."

I have no "...quarrels..." with either. But I don't do wannabe bullies. Never have, never will.

"...I have only taken aim at two things in this thread: the magazine idea and your debate tactics. So far, both have had very predictable ends."

And yet... Here you are... Discussing both with me. Maybe the "...aim.." you've taken has been directly influence by both my "...magazine idea..." and "...debate..." tactics.

And know that I appreciate you sticking with it. Ideas aren't moved forward on the backs of the many, but on the backs of the few who are willing to push on through the sludge, up to higher ground.

Edited January 20, 2020 by RidingAgain

[ATXZJ]

1 hour ago, RidingAgain said:

But I don't do wannabe bullies. Never have, never will.

 

you dont do much of anything though, do you? 

first two pages of austin mountain biking, 8/25 threads were started by you. most end up only being responded to by you. The others are received with a luke warm response or what you perceive as negativity. 

Exactly why the f*ck are you even creating discussion of a bike magazine with an obsolete form of media when you are almost single-handedly driving people away from this current form of media. The place is almost a ghostown, which is a shame since this site was created as a love of the sport by someone who didn't really have to do it. 

Other members of the forum asked the x and I to back off of you in the hopes that you'd fall in line or go away if you weren't being provoked. You kept going, with business as usual, so it's apparent that it doesn't matter what anyone says to you, you're not changing.

Its not you specifically i have a problem with, it's your character. Your kind has no character.

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by ATXZJ

[RidingAgain]

1 hour ago, ATXZJ said:

you dont do much of anything though, do you? 

first two pages of austin mountain biking, 8/25 threads were started by you. most end up only being responded to by you. The others are received with a luke warm response or what you perceive as negativity. 

Exactly why the f*ck are you even creating discussion of a bike magazine with an obsolete form of media when you are almost single-handedly driving people away from this current form of media. The place is almost a ghostown, which is a shame since this site was created as a love of the sport by someone who didn't really have to do it. 

Other members of the forum asked the x and I to back off of you in the hopes that you'd fall in line or go away if you weren't being provoked. You kept going, with business as usual, so it's apparent that it doesn't matter what anyone says to you, you're not changing.

Its not you specifically i have a problem with, it's your character. Your kind has no character.

 

And here we go...

"...you don't do much of anything though, do you?"

Regarding cycling... I put 12+ people on bikes last year... Picked up and donated maybe another 12 bikes to Yellowbike Project... Spent maybe $5-$600 at Yellowbike Project... Spoke to maybe 30 people about Yellowbike Project and various trails in Austin, especially SATN... Put in time on trail building/maintenance at Walnut Creek, Slaughter Creek, the new trail out east (can't remember its name), and SATN... Gave away bike parts to some folk... Encouraged a former rider to start riding again... Helped riders who live in my neighborhood do maintenance on their bikes.

I know it may not be much... But come on now... It's more than nothing.

"...first two pages of austin mountain biking, 8/25 threads were started by you. most end up only being responded to by you. The others are received with a luke warm response or what you perceive as negativity."

Really?

So grease isn't a topic of interest on a mountain bike website. Or stuff that's happening in Arkansas. Or what is gravel biking. Or identifying parts. Or headsets. 

See, ATXZJ... You're trying to be smart, just speaking in a very general way... Thing is... I enjoy posting things I find interesting, and what I think others might find interesting. I don't post things according to what you think I should post. Honestly, it really is sad how much you think you should dictate things on this website.

As for "...lukewarm..." responses... Not everything I post is for generating replies. And if the posts I make get a few replies I'm good with that. And if they get some negative replies, I'm good with that also... Albeit you and a few others like you, with your specific agenda, lead the way with those negative replies.

"...Exactly why the f*ck are you even creating discussion of a bike magazine with an obsolete form of media when you are almost single-handedly driving people away from this current form of media. The place is almost a ghost own, which is a shame since this site was created as a love of the sport by someone who didn't really have to do it."

And there you go again... Being utterly dishonest.

If someone doesn't want to read what I have posted... They are not obligated to do so. They can simply read the threads they want to read and ignore the threads they don't want to read. It's not rocket science.

But the truth is... It is your constant wannabe bullying tactics — along with your sidekick — that makes things unpleasant.

Just stop getting involved with your nastiness. It really is simple (people here have even asked you to do just that).

This is something that you began doing back on the Bike Mojo website, and not just with me, with others as well. You were a wannabe bully back there, and you are a wannabe bully here. The Tip and I actually met a rider who told us that he wanted nothing to do with the Bike Mojo website because over the years all he had encounter on it was hostility. And that's the truth, it's like some people thought they needed to be nasty in order to be seen as hardcore mountain bikers; and so others had to put up with their crap. Just like folks here on this website have to put up with the crap you and your sidekick are constantly bombarding threads with. And when you're exposed you try to deflect around it. But the truth is, just mind your own business, stay out of any threads you don't have anything positive to contribute in, and things will move along just fine... As was happening for a month or two while you took a sabbatical from your foolishness.

"...Other members of the forum asked the x and I to back off of you in the hopes that you'd fall in line or go away if you weren't being provoked. You kept going, with business as usual, so it's apparent that it doesn't matter what anyone says to you, you're not changing."

That's bullshit... And you know it. When you followed the request of others things did "...quiet down...". I had no interaction with you during that time. You kept yourself in line, and I didn't pursue you, just as I have always done. But you just couldn't tow the line... You had to start it up again... Because for whatever reason, you're obsessed with me. Dude... Seriously... Just back off.

"...Its not you specifically i have a problem with, it's your character. Your kind has no character."

Oy vey.

"...no character..."?

Do you mean in an upright, decent context?

ATXZJ... 

Some months ago I posted a thread (or comment, I can't remember) that was about kids... And in your typical dickhead-like manner... You made a comment insinuating that I had pedophilia tendencies.

And you talk about "...no character...".

What is wrong with you?

It seems you've become so obsessed with me that common decency is beyond you.

And yet... I have no ill will towards you.

Seriously... Absolutely none.

I banter with you here on the threads when you get all "...tilted..." with your obsession... But that's just banter for me, with no meaning beyond it being banter. I once offered to have a beer with you — which you vehemently turned down — and the offer still stands.


 

Edited January 20, 2020 by RidingAgain

[RidingAgain]

I'll address this directly...

"...Exactly why the f*ck are you even creating discussion of a bike magazine with an obsolete form of media...".

Because I truly think, even know, that a published magazine on local trail use — which includes biking and hiking — will be an asset to the community and its well-being.

And unlike the limited view some who are narrow-minded may have, I am very cognizant that melding various forms of accepted media can produce a powerful influencing factor within a community.

I also understand that one of the major drivers with people who desire to participate in outdoor activities, such as trail use, tend to either have tactile desires, or want to develop tactile desires... And a published magazine, being a tactile experience, plays into this driver. In fact, it is a researched fact that the present clutter found within the digital realm is causing people to desire leaving digital behind for a short time and pursue tactile things.

Because of the growth of things digital, the supply of printed magazines has become less available, and this has created an unoccupied market space within the local market that a published magazine can fill.

And honestly, ATXZJ... A current $65-billion income generating industry is certainly not "...an obsolete form of media...".

Edited January 20, 2020 by RidingAgain

[ATXZJ]

Triggered much?

[RidingAgain]

Nope.

Just trying to help you.

It's what people with character try to do.

Edited January 20, 2020 by RidingAgain

[gotdurt]

Seems relevant...
Dirt Rag is dead

[TheX]

25 minutes ago, gotdurt said:

Seems relevant...
Dirt Rag is dead

It is relevant, and sad. 

[Txduc]

1 hour ago, TheX said:

It is relevant, and sad. 

Agreed.  This is very sad.  I hope the last issue arrives because the app is not letting me download.  Does anybody know of another similar publication?  

[RidingAgain]

2 hours ago, gotdurt said:

Seems relevant...
Dirt Rag is dead

Dirt Rag was always somewhat on the outside of the mainstream mtb magazine line up... Which is what made it unique. I came across my first Diart Rag issue maybe back in 1995 when I got my first mtb. The covers were art, the paper stock used was premium, the article writing was different... It just felt and read differently from other mtb magazines.

It was just a cool magazine to have and read.

But that kind of went away and it became a little more mainstream. I haven't picked one up in maybe 20 years. Much like any other mtb magazine.

But the Dirt Rag Facebook page has 198,000+ "likes", and 198,000+ followers... That's a lot of eyeballs. And almost 600 comments and 2,000 emoji reactions to the thread posted just 11 hours ago about it shutting down... And all the comments are expressing sadness at what is happening.

I fully understand that the print industry is under the gun... And has been for a couple of decades now. But I also know that some print magazines are making money. That's a fact.

So I'm thinking — especially after doing some quick research — that this shutting down may have a bit more to it than just financial hard times. I'm thinking that the person who was there at the founding of Dirt Rag, and who remained at the helm ever since, Maurice Tierney, maybe just realized that mountain biking isn't what it was... And neither is the cool magazine segment of the print industry.

Even his own words quoted from a relatively recent interview suggest this...

"...The slope’s been driven by technology. And of course, people want to make things work better, so that’s what people do. They make stuff work better, which means making your bike ride easier, you know? Suspension, tire size, disk brakes. I hate to say it, but it… Is it driven by competition? I don’t know. I don’t pay attention to competition. Not really.

...But downhill bikes are 29ers now. Like World Cup downhills are being won on 29-inch bikes. So I mean, that technology is great, but I think it’s kind of taken over so much, that it’s made the sport less accessible to Joe Mountain Biker. I think bikes are too expensive. I think the technology has maybe gotten out of control. Just like in our everyday lives, technology is out of control, even with the way we connect with our telephones. But I’m not going to complain about that. That’s just the way it is. That’s how technology works. But I think it’s hard to keep the soul in it when the technology has driven us to this $10,000 mountain bike. So we try and review bikes that are under $3,000. Companies don’t want to send that to us. They want to send us their 7-, 8-, 9,000-dollar wonder bike. I’m exaggerating with the numbers, but you know.

So we try and keep it real—try and keep it to activities that you can do out of your back door, what you can do in your own town, and get people riding bikes in general. And try to keep it less exclusive. For a while we were doing, I think, a little too much exotic-travel-in-foreign-countries kind of stories."

You can read the full interview here...

https://dirtragmag.com/articles/catching-up-with-maurice-tierney

Edited January 30, 2020 by RidingAgain

[mack_turtle]

RIP Dirt Rag. I'll miss their blue-collar, iconoclast spin on mtb culture. I can tell from their old magazines that they were trying to keep things punk rock, but it seems like they were in a losing battle with the forces of technopoly.

 

I have a big box of Dirt Rags dating back to Issue 2. I was trying to give them away for a long time but now I am going to keep them.

Edited January 30, 2020 by mack_turtle

[gotdurt]

I'll guarantee you that it's at least partially financial; print mags have always been a tough industry, and in this day of free real-time information, print is a hard sell to advertisers and readers alike. I used to be a magazine junkie (I'm a man of many hobbies), but I'll bet it has been a decade since I last purchased one... in fact I don't even pay for online subscriptions anymore, when I can get all the info I need (and then some) from social media, forums, news sites (ie: Pinkbike, Vital, MTBR, etc for the bike industry), Youtube, blogs, etc... I have absolutely no reason to spend money on a magazine with redundant info that will end up in the trash after sitting in a stack for 10 years. Pretty much everyone I know is the same way. DR had a strong following on social media (including myself), but that doesn't translate to magazine sales or even online sub's; there comes a point when your original vision stops paying the bills, you have to decide if changing with the times is a worthwhile and fulfilling endeavor (I can actually relate).

Dirt Rag was cool in it's early days; to me it represented the creative, playful, colorful, rebellious MTB culture of the 80's and 90's that no one took too seriously, the era I personally miss most. As he pointed out, the industry is a different beast now, and I personally saw them as one of the few remaining flickers of that era.

[TheX]

2 minutes ago, gotdurt said:

print is a hard sell to advertisers and readers alike. 

Most people here agree.

[RidingAgain]

27 minutes ago, gotdurt said:

...there comes a point when your original vision stops paying the bills, you have to decide if changing with the times is a worthwhile and fulfilling endeavor (I can actually relate).

Dirt Rag was cool in it's early days; to me it represented the creative, playful, colorful, rebellious MTB culture of the 80's and 90's that no one took too seriously, the era I personally miss most. As he pointed out, the industry is a different beast now, and I personally saw them as one of the few remaining flickers of that era."

No doubt.

And yet the magazine industry still generates $28-billion in revenue. They key is this that you said... "...if changing with the times is a worthwhile and fulfilling endeavor...".

Looking back can be all touchy-feely cuddly... But looking forward is the way to generate success — along with the dedication and hard work necessary, and even then you need some things to break your way. 

I got the sense that the publisher of Dirt Rag just couldn't find the motivation needed to go on. He did back in 2012 when he created his new holding company, but then that magazine closed last year or just before I think, and it's hard to recover when the motivation has been lost. And finances are certainly included in that. According to one of the sites, the holding company was only reporting less than a million is annual revenue, with 50-60 employees. The maths just doesn't add up.

Edited January 30, 2020 by RidingAgain

[RidingAgain]

26 minutes ago, TheX said:

Most people here agree.

If you'd taken the time to try and read and comprehend what I've written, you'd possibly see that I'm one of those people.

But as actual facts show... Hard that it might be... It's not impossible. Nor necessarily unprofitable.

Edited January 30, 2020 by RidingAgain

[ATXZJ]

13 minutes ago, RidingAgain said:

If you'd taken the time to try and read and comprehend what I've written, you'd possibly see that I'm one of those people.

But as actual facts show... Hard that it might be... It's not impossible. Nor necessarily unprofitable.

This whole thread begs the question, when does the exclusive "Writing Again" magazine get started? You've claimed to have cuddled up to media moguls on yachts so securing funding for such a solid venture should be a no-brainer.

don't let us get in the way of your dreams for christs sake!

[RidingAgain]

Dude... Don't get all... Tilted... About someone else's business.

[ATXZJ]

7 minutes ago, RidingAgain said:

Dude... Don't get all... Tilted... About someone else's business.

Prove us all wrong

[RidingAgain]

No need to.

That's where I think you're all confused; at least, it's a part of your confusion.

Edited January 30, 2020 by RidingAgain

[RidingAgain]

BTW... Since you're showing interest... And some restraint... I'll tell you that I have been in touch with IMBA about folks who ride muddy trails.

Here's one of the resources they suggested...

 

[mack_turtle]

Less posting, more journalism! Get on it.

[ATXZJ]

Just now, mack_turtle said:

Less posting, more journalism! Get on it.

This x100

[RidingAgain]

4 minutes ago, mack_turtle said:

Less posting, more journalism! Get on it.

I'll let you know what I decide. When I decide.