AustinBike Posted February 14, 2020 Author Share Posted February 14, 2020 Actually the difference between a fat bike and an e-bike is pretty stark. You can build regular bikes and throw a fat bike into the lineup with minimal extra work. 90% of the bike is the same. Larger wheels, wider geometry. Same handlebars, same drive trains, same brakes, you get the picture. I have to think that there are some significant differences in both the design and supply chain that makes adding an e-bike a huge effort for manufacturers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throet Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 I've really enjoyed reading the various opinions, speculation, wagers, etc on this thread. I really loved the Use Cases laid out by @notyal and the personal perspective shared by @El Gringo. A couple of years ago I was adamantly opposed to eMTB altogether, but I've grown to accept that there will ultimately be a place for them. The question now is where they will settle in and when. If we apply Gartner's hype cycle, we are likely near the Peak of Inflated Expectations. So it will be interesting to see how many players climb out of the Trough of Disillusionment. I saw that Haibike is focusing solely on eBikes now and leaving the non-eBikes to its sister company Ghost. Given some of the intricacies mentioned on this thread, maybe that is the best approach, i.e. carve out a niche and truly cater to it vs. dabbling in something that is significantly different from your core competency. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXZJ Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 im all about the trough of disillusionment 😁 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted February 15, 2020 Author Share Posted February 15, 2020 14 hours ago, throet said: I saw that Haibike is focusing solely on eBikes now and leaving the non-eBikes to its sister company Ghost. Given some of the intricacies mentioned on this thread, maybe that is the best approach, i.e. carve out a niche and truly cater to it vs. dabbling in something that is significantly different from your core competency. This is clearly the best strategy. Make it stand on its own from a design, supply chain, financial and marketing sense. The worst case scenario is a company letting eMTB bleed over into their product line where they start making bad decisions on their 98% bike line in order to enable their 2% gamble. As soon as you have accepted that 46 pounds is reasonable for a bike, it becomes harder to resist the "you know, if we just make this little modification on the Tallboy, it only adds an extra pound and then we can use some of that design on the e-Tallboy.." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 1 hour ago, AustinBike said: This is clearly the best strategy. Make it stand on its own from a design, supply chain, financial and marketing sense. The worst case scenario is a company letting eMTB bleed over into their product line where they start making bad decisions on their 98% bike line in order to enable their 2% gamble. As soon as you have accepted that 46 pounds is reasonable for a bike, it becomes harder to resist the "you know, if we just make this little modification on the Tallboy, it only adds an extra pound and then we can use some of that design on the e-Tallboy.." I'm going to use the Santa Cruz e-bike as an example. For them to create a separate entity to sell an e-bike makes no sense (IMHO). Looking at their bike, it seems to be able to stand on its own. I don't see that design influencing their standard bikes. IMHO of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 Back to the important question: what is Bill Murray riding these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXZJ Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 2 hours ago, TheX said: I'm going to use the Santa Cruz e-bike as an example. For them to create a separate entity to sell an e-bike makes no sense (IMHO). Looking at their bike, it seems to be able to stand on its own. I don't see that design influencing their standard bikes. IMHO of course. agree on this and also they have the sales/resources to build a placemarker ebike to get that box checked. its still hideous looking though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 6 minutes ago, ATXZJ said: agree on this and also they have the sales/resources to build a placemarker ebike to get that box checked. its still hideous looking though Yeah, not my thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Gringo Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 18 hours ago, ATXZJ said: im all about the trough of disillusionment 😁 I think dropper posts are still there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 30 minutes ago, El Gringo said: I think dropper posts are still there. Thank gawd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cafeend Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 Back to the important question: what is Bill Murray riding these days?Well after watching the Super Bowl commercial. A jeepSent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seths Pool Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 On 2/13/2020 at 11:04 AM, mack_turtle said: There's a clash of philosophical worldviews playing out here that is bigger than bikes. Some of us see things in the context of ideal forms (thanks, Plato). To me, a mountain bike is an expression of a form, just like a cat, or a a game of baseball. You can vary the manifestation of that form to some degree, but when you tweak that object beyond it's horizon, it ceases to represent that form. It's now something else. If a cat starts laying eggs or grows wings, it's no longer a cat. If people on a baseball field start tackling one another and kicking the ball around instead of hitting it with a bat, they're not playing baseball anymore. In that thread, when you put a motor on a mountain bike, it's "no longer a mountain bike." I am not saying that this perspective is superior to anyone else's. I have a pretty strong sense that categories are important, that compartmentalizing my perception of reality is what keeps me sane. It points to an explanation of why some people think e-mtbs are sacrilege and others shrug and say "so what?" exactly. THIS ^^^^^ kinda like how a penis defies you as a man, and a vagina defies you as ... you get it. but we already know enough people this day in age have tried to blur those lines also. but yes, categories are important.. dont let anyone convince you otherwise. 2020 people logic is very questionable to say the least Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 48 minutes ago, Seths Pool said: kinda like how a penis defies you as a man, and a vagina defies you as ... you get it. but we already know enough people this day in age have tried to blur those lines also. Not blurry for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/The-Hub,2/Former-Trek-Executives-Open-Letter-to-Bike-Industry-About-E-Bikes,10793 1:09 - Edited February 18, 2020 by mack_turtle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
June Bug Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 I'm seeing a lot of e-bikes on my north-south commute to Hyde Park Gym, including and especially, cargo style bikes, using the bike lanes on Guadalupe between 45th and almost to Hwy 183. My impression, based on the carrying capacity of these bikes, is that for many (most?) of these riders, it is their sole transportation. Future? As regenerative braking and new battery technology comes to ebikes, their popularity in cities and elsewhere will expand as their range increases. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sluggo Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, June Bug said: I'm seeing a lot of e-bikes on my north-south commute to Hyde Park Gym, including and especially, cargo style bikes, using the bike lanes on Guadalupe between 45th and almost to Hwy 183. My impression, based on the carrying capacity of these bikes, is that for many (most?) of these riders, it is their sole transportation. Maybe, but I think many are figuring out ebikes are just a better way of getting around. Edited February 19, 2020 by Sluggo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 8 hours ago, June Bug said: I'm seeing a lot of e-bikes on my north-south commute to Hyde Park Gym, including and especially, cargo style bikes, using the bike lanes on Guadalupe between 45th and almost to Hwy 183. My impression, based on the carrying capacity of these bikes, is that for many (most?) of these riders, it is their sole transportation. Future? As regenerative braking and new battery technology comes to ebikes, their popularity in cities and elsewhere will expand as their range increases. There is a huge opportunity for ebikes and commuting. I see a lot as well. I used to commute to work on a bike when I had a 5 mile daily ride (each way). If it were 10+ each way I'd be all over an ebike. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRider3141 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 9 minutes ago, AustinBike said: There is a huge opportunity for ebikes and commuting. I see a lot as well. I used to commute to work on a bike when I had a 5 mile daily ride (each way). If it were 10+ each way I'd be all over an ebike. 100% Agree, I think this is the use-case that makes the most sense to me. A previous employer of mine was 12 miles away and a 30-45 minute drive. My home and work was very close to a former railway turned gravel bike path. The issue was my work had no shower facility and a business formal dress code (slacks, button-up shirt/tie). There's no way I could have ridden 10-12 miles without being a mess at work with no way to clean up. An e-bike would have been a no brainier and may have been a wash on time in comparison to the traffic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escapee Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 I put a retrofit kit on my Big Dummy. It’s fun. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 12 hours ago, Escapee said: ...Big Dummy. It’s fun. Whoa. With that handlebar on the back, this thing looks like a great starting point for some Big Dummy surfing! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 E-bikes for transportation are totally awesome in all circumstances. If my commute was a little shorter, I'd consider one. (20 miles each way! Still looking for something closer to home.) With the Texas heat most of the year, even a 10 mile ride on an e-bike would necessitate a shower at work. Employers that don't provide locker rooms, especially in Texas, are decades behind the times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notyal Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 33 minutes ago, Barry said: Whoa. With that handlebar on the back, this thing looks like a great starting point for some Big Dummy surfing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throet Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 So I get all of the Use Cases that make sense for eMTB but dammit this isn't one of them. Are you kidding me - an eMTB XC Race? This is just ridiculous! This would be like doing the 110 high hurdles on shorter hurdles just to see how much faster people could go. Or like running the 100M Dash downhill. Or like putting wings on the Javelin. Or maybe adding a thruster to the shot put. Gimme a break! UCI press release: The UCI joins forces with WES to launch the inaugural UCI E-Mountain Bike Cross-country World Cup The Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) is delighted to announce the launch, in partnership with the World E-Bike Series Management (WES), of the first UCI E-Mountain Bike Cross-country World Cup. Comprising five rounds, the new competition will kick off on 6-7 March in Monaco and finish seven months later in Barcelona, Spain, on 2-3 October. The UCI included E-MTB in its regulations in 2018. The following year it added the events in the World E-Bike Series to its International Mountain Bike Calendar and, on 28 August 2019, it successfully staged the first UCI E-Mountain Bike World Championships in Mont-Sainte-Anne, Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree Magnet Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 The question is “Are e-bikes ‘cycles’ or ‘motorcycles’?” UCI is claiming they’re cycles and they get to control the racing. I think I saw this mentioned previously in this thread but this is a pissing match for money. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Why would UCI sanction an xc e-bike race? (Hint: $, and no other reason.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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