2112Greg Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 I was out there with The Tip yesterday and we talked about his concerns about collisions and trail merging. I get his concern, but I also think he's erring on the side of caution. There may be a blind-ish merge or two, but overall I think it's going to be fine. True, there are now lots of connectors but sight distance is generally pretty good. My concern, as his is, that hikers with earbuds might get onto the trails and that could be a problem. I would hope that hikers realize these trails are built and for MTBs and I don't think they'd be particularly good to hike (then again, I don't really hike that much, so maybe I'm not the best judge). That said, I think it's going to be fine. Perhaps we just let things stay this way for a while and let people get used to things. I don't know how much COULD be added, but leaving it be for a while could be a good thing. It's really great now...so get out there, use your bells, make noise around corners and merges and have some fun. The last thing anyone wants is someone to get hurt and the neighborhood getting the willies and shutting the whole are down. Just play safely and we should be good...IMO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cxagent Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 I agree with Greg's last sentence. I think there is a very simple answer to the concern of collisions on those trails. Everybody should ride within their ability to brake or turn to avoid collisions. It is up to YOU to avoid collisions. There will *ALWAYS* be other riders or hikers or children or dogs on the trail. You must be able to handle the situation. At all times and under all conditions. If a hiker with earbuds gets in your way - is it the hiker's fault? Really??? Does it matter? History shows that the biker will be blamed. What about children in your way? Or dogs? The biker will ALWAYS be blamed. Trails are not closed to hikers - they are closed to bikes. There will always be changes to the trail as rocks move or trees fall. YOU must be able to handle the situation. At least in that situation there is no question of who is to blame. It is the biker's fault. So ride within your ability and there should be no problem. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree Magnet Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 57 minutes ago, 2112Greg said: I would hope that hikers realize these trails are built and for MTBs and I don't think they'd be particularly good to hike (then again, I don't really hike that much, so maybe I'm not the best judge). I have never found this to the be the case unfortunately. If it's a trail on public land, everyone is going to assume that it's there for them and we have to share it responsibly. If it's on private land, the trail is there for whomever the land owner wants it to be. I'd say that the same rules apply that we should use on every trail. Just be careful and pay attention. Just consider what you'd do if there was a three year old playing in the trail around the next corner. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdog-1992 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Fortunately at this point, there seem to be very few hikers on that side of the "lake". I have gone up some trails that are generally downhill out of ignorance. What I'm more interested in is someone getting at least a crude sketch of the 7 different runs. Timing hasn't allowed me to go when many others go out there (like crank & drank) and it's really hard to tell from Strava exactly which run is which. And before anyone says it, yes I do just go ride them and try to figure them out for myself so the sketch is more of a semi-assurance I'm sticking to the general plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridenfool Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) 44 minutes ago, gdog-1992 said: What I'm more interested in is someone getting at least a crude sketch of the 7 different runs. That sounds kinda sketchy to me. Edited February 21, 2019 by Ridenfool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112Greg Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) Here's an image of the trails 'almost' as they are today. There is one new little trail that goes from the bottom of Up or Down, across The Ski Lift and down a pretty big/fun ditch, then up to Rim Shot (take a right to go to the bottom of it...going up Rim Shot sucks, it's doable, but it sucks). Off of Four Ledges, there are 3 new little pieces that provide another way down the hill. And I think those are the parts that Carl's most concerned about. You can now session the two smaller drops on Double Drop and the bigger one on the right (as you go down DD) by going up and around Up or Down. There are tons of different ways to put all these segments together. From the highest point on Four Ledges to the bottommost point, I'd say it's about 85 feet, so you'll be doing some climbing if you do lots of laps. Totally worth it... There is also a fun jump off a big flat rock by taking the second spur off Four Ledges down the hill. You land on a slight decline, so it's pretty sweet...you can bypass the jump easily, as well. Edited February 22, 2019 by 2112Greg 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidingAgain Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) And the access to this is via? I know where it is... Just wondering what trail section is used to access it? On Google maps there's a jeep road that is not shown on your above map. Or is this jeep road what you're callin The Ski Lift? Edited February 21, 2019 by RidingAgain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, RidingAgain said: And the access to this is via? I know where it is... Just wondering what trail section is used to access it? I don't even know where it is! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112Greg Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) Yes, The Ski Lift is the jeep trail... To get to the Meridian Bowl, there are at least 2 ways that I can think of. You can come down what's called School Daze, which is found going down 1826 at the end of 45. See the map. From Stroller Roller in the middle of 45, you can go into the golf course and get to the bowl. Just stay left at every chance and you'll get there. You'll be very close to riding on the actual golf course at one point, but that's how it goes. You'll cross Alcanza and then you'll be on Meridian Dr. Go in where the big square rocks are and either go left to hit Dam Straight or go straight which will take you around Bear Lake to the entrance of Four Ledges and all the other segments on the hill there. Hope that helps... Edited February 22, 2019 by 2112Greg 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdog-1992 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, 2112Greg said: Here's an image of the trails 'almost' as they are today. There is one new little trail that goes from the bottom of Up or Down, across The Ski Lift and down a pretty big/fun ditch, then up to Rim Shot (take a right to go to the bottom of it...going up Rim Shot sucks, it's doable, but it sucks). Off of Four Ledges, there are 3 new little pieces that provide another way down the hill. And I think those are the parts that Carl's most concerned about. You can now session the two smaller drops on Double Drop and the bigger one on the right (as you go down DD) by going up and around Up or Down. There are tons of different ways to put all these segments together. From the highest point on Four Ledges to the bottommost point, I'd say it's about 85 feet, so you'll be doing some climbing if you do lots of laps. Totally worth it... There is also a fun jump off a big flat rock by taking the second spur off Four Ledges down the hill. You land on a slight decline, so it's pretty sweet...you can bypass the jump easily, as well. Thanks Greg! That is really helpful. I've been over there quite a few times already so this all makes sense. There is also access from Avana (where I live). It's hard to explain but there's basically a trail entrance on a culvert near the intersection of Bernia & Mundomar (entrance is on west side of Mundomar). You then take that to some jeep roads and ride the jeep roads to get closer to 1826, where the jeep road that turns into Ski Lift begins. If I could figure out how to post a Strava image, I'll post a track. Edited February 21, 2019 by gdog-1992 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112Greg Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Yep, you can come that way, too. The jeep road that is at the bottom of all the Bowl runs will spit you out where that trampoline used to be. The new construction messed up the path we used to have there, so you end up going to Bernia by going northish and up and thru some fields, etc...and taking that to the end of Escarpment (or vice versa depending on what you're doing). At the end of Escarpment, there are 4 little out and back trails called Avana Escape. The first two are the best, but the first one is my favorite... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larlev Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Ya, thanks Greg. Have been wondering where to actually park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 This is great, thanks for the map Greg! I just rode through the trail along 45 on Monday, had no idea there was more south of 45! Next time I'm over there I'll definitely check out Meridian Bowl. 🙂 ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tip Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) I hope my post didn't imply that the downhill rider was absolved from all responsibilities. I just want to emphasize that these trails allow you to go fast and that everyone should show extra cautions. Everyone. This area is not unlike all downhill facilities, be it skiing or mountain biking. They all have converging trails. This is not a new thing. I've seen lots of hikers on Rim Shot, but speed is not a problem there. I have yet to see one out on the fast trails. They are not as forest-y or pretty on that exposed slope. Again, even when parking a car there, be pleasant and wave to passersby when next to your car. Fortunately the two best parking places are not next to any houses. And don't try and talk to any kids out there! Yesterday there was a group of five of them, all about eight years old? I had passed their Walmart mountain bikes on kickstands at the end of Dam Straight then encountered them at the beginning of Rim Shot. I said, "Hey, I saw some cool mountain bikes up there. Are they yours?" One kid muttered something affirmative, and they started to run off. I said, "Do you ride these trails out here?" One of the girls started shouting STRANGER DANGER! At first I laughed because I thought she was just being funny, but then I thought, geez, was that for real? I'm pretty sure she didn't see my ankle monitor so I don't get it. (yes, I'm kidding about the monitor! Geez, et tu Brute?) But please please please, remember that we are guests there. Edited February 21, 2019 by The Tip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tip Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 By the way, the cross trails were not part of the original vision. But they started appearing organically so steps were taken to make the mergers safer than they were. The real education here is that there ARE cross trails so be aware at the intersections. No matter what direction you are going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Is it really a good idea to post these maps on a public forum? Sounds like a good way to get it all shut down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112Greg Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I'm happy to remove them if you want to...no big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_papa_nuts Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Rocks are bumpy, mud is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 8 hours ago, 2112Greg said: I'm happy to remove them if you want to...no big deal. It's not up to me, but for the sake of maintaining access to them, we should be a little more subtle. Share maps privately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tip Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 8 hours ago, 2112Greg said: I'm happy to remove them if you want to...no big deal. This is not a bandit trail system. So far we have permission from the landowners. I have shared maps with the landowners that they were very appreciative of. But again, I am torn about talking about this area. I want to share the information with the mountain bike community, but I don't want it to get overused, and possible shut down from that overuse. Hopefully the homeowners will appreciate that they have a fantastic and unique facility and will tolerate we riders. People pay premiums to live on golf courses with golfers literally in their backyard all day long. Loud, beer drinking, cussing-at-their-bad-shot golfers. But even non-golfers pay that extra amount to live in a house on a golf course. Same situation at some ski resorts. Crossing fingers that this will be the case here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I predict a chorus of NIMBYs in 5, 4, 3, 2... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdog-1992 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Totally understand the concerns. I was just curious because Strava makes it really hard to figure out the exact runs and not sure I'm hitting everything so just wanted a rough sketch so I could figure out what was what a bit better over there. Feel free to PM me one if you want. I think the biggest thing is just be courteous and don't be a dick when you're riding through "sensitive" areas. There has been other stuff in that area that homeowners/neighbors have had to deal with (late night 4-wheeling and outdoor parties in the area between Meridian/Avana/Golf Course) so maybe MTB can be seen as a better option if we act as solid citizens. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zrx24 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 On 2/19/2019 at 9:54 AM, RidingAgain said: No doubt there will be some who just want to stay off the rocks, especially when it's an extended section like that in the photo above. But my comment was addressing the 3'-5' section in the first photo, that bridged what looked like a low area that water collects in. The above looks more like a small creek flow course. But sure, people will always try to avoid what they don't want to ride/walk on. The same thing can be seen at the short section just after the jeep road/driveway in the Slaughter Creek trail. I remember when that section of stones had just been laid down. Almost immediately there were tire marks to each side of it. It's going to happen, I just think that having a slightly wider lay of stone will lessen the amount of people who do it... Especially on 3'-5' sections. BTW... Is that wide tire mark from a mountain bike or a motorbike? There are both motorbike and mountain bike tracks there. What is most annoying with the photo is the motorbike tracks through the mud. I can understand not wanting to ride that long rock garden on my mountain, but there is no excuse not to make use of it in muddy conditions on a motorbike. That photo makes me want to bitch slap somebody. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tip Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, gdog-1992 said: I think the biggest thing is just be courteous and don't be a dick when you're riding through "sensitive" areas. There has been other stuff in that area that homeowners/neighbors have had to deal with (late night 4-wheeling and outdoor parties in the area between Meridian/Avana/Golf Course) And don't forget the wild and unabandoned trampolining that happened there. And yes, Strava is having a hard time distinguishing between the runs. They are just too close and too similar to each other. Edited February 22, 2019 by The Tip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdog-1992 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, The Tip said: And don't forget the wild and unabandoned trampolining that happened there. And yes, Strava is having a hard time distinguishing between the runs. They are just too close and too similar to each other. Yes, there have been some interesting "items" left over in that area. There was an oven out there for awhile and quite a few other random household things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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