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wahoo kickr and zwift


crazyt
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all this rain is making EB training really difficult so I bought a wahoo kickr trainer used ($550) and connected it to zwift so I could get some training rides in. I don't like riding on the road at all but Ive been getting zero trail time.

I wasnt sure what the minimum bike you need is and couldnt find any info about it, so I thought Id post here. A new version came out so people are starting to upgrade. The guy I bought it from has a team of guys that are upgrading.

It turns out you barely need any bike to run this thing, here is what you need

Frame

Stem

Fork (rigid is fine)

Bar/grips

Crank + ring

Pedals

Chain

Fork mount (or a front wheel)

Fan

The bike has "erg" mode which adjusts the resistance automatically so shifting isnt necessary. The one caveat is you can only use erg mode when doing a training workout. So you can ride the same virtual routes but will be following a training plan. If you try to ride normally it doesnt seem like you can do erg mode and so you would want a shifter (or just ride single speed). Ill probably end up putting a shifter on so I can do the regular rides without doing a training workout.

I have a front wheel on the bike for now, but have ordered a fork mount and will just mount the fork to a wooden box. This will reduce the front profile as there wont be a wheel sticking out.

I have only ridden for 15 minutes last night to test the system, but it seemed to work great and was tough.

wahoo kickr.jpg

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Congrats!

I have a computrainer (which I'm selling cheap btw for anyone wanting in on the smart trainer world) and upgraded to a CycleOps Hammer.  I've never used Zwift, but I've used the Computrainer software and Trainerroad.  The two modes are called slope mode and erg mode.   The slope mode is what you want for ride emulation and you'll need gears unless you want to pretend you're a single-speeder, but many of these trainers don't like high power and low RPMs.  There's even a way you can make your own ride profiles but I've never gotten into it.  

The main reason I went with the Hammer is because it folds up nicely vertically, and I don't have to deal with the tire interface, etc.  I wanted to ride indoors instead of in the garage (sucks in the summer even with two massive fans).  Having said that, you need some good fans (yep, plural) if you tend to sweat.  If you do a hard 1-3hr ride, you will finish drenched from head to toes.  It's good to use your old shoes for this, and I highly recommend the PEET shoe dryer.  In fact, I'm going to buy a second one that has the gloves attachment.  If you have kids and everyone gets muddy shoes, it's a must (unless you like that musty smell in your laundry room or mud room)....but I digress.  I had one fan pointing at my torso and head, the other at my legs.  Indoors I only have a small fan pointed at my head, and the ceiling fan right above.  I feel like I need another fan at my legs, wrist bands, head band, and maybe some kind of ankle sweat bands.

What kind of fan do you have there?  I need a quiet indoor fan.

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Nice. I wish I had found a used trainer at that price. I bought one new about 2 years ago as a Christmas present to myself. With work schedules, weather, and kids sometimes it just isn't possible to ride regularly. I end up riding as much on the trainer as IRL. OTOH I more than doubled the "miles" ridden per year.

I tried Zwift and Bkool when I first started. Bkool had a lot of problems so I settled on Zwift. Never tried TrainerRoad because I don't like the idea of staring at numbers and charts. Most of my rides start by telling myself this will be a casual "recovery" ride. Inevitably I chase down everyone that passes me or blow up trying. I have no self control. That's kind of what I like about Zwift there is always someone to chase or someone behind you to try to beat to the next hill or whatever. Just staring at a screen showing watts for an hour... just doesn't sound as fun. No doubt structured workouts are better for sick gains though.

I bought a 2nd cassette for my road bike so it's as easy as changing a rear wheel when I want to use the trainer. No moving parts around. I'd recommend at least two fans. I like to have one in front aimed up at my torso and head and one in back pointed at my legs. I could use a third in the front.

I do not like erg mode. At least on the Tacx it seems like if you fall behind with your cadence it ramps up resistance really fast. I seem to yo-yo above and below the number I'm supposed to be holding more in erg mode than not. Seems backwards to what it should be but maybe something I have is messed up. Like I said I don't mess with the training plans much.

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I use a Kickr and Zwift and Sufferfest.  If I absolutely want to suffer I usually do Sufferfest since the rides are more fun in my opinion (and some of them are downright brutal).   If I'm just riding for exercise or want to do some specific hill climbing, I use Zwift.

ERG mode works really well on the Kickr.  The only time I don't care for it is on sprints where it tends to think I need to put out more power than I can and it gets a bit tough.  Otherwise it keeps me right where I need to be +/- 5 watts.

 

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added a shifter to my bike so I can ride outside of erg mode. What seems to work well is running a training program first and then continuing to ride in regular mode after.

What kind of power are people getting? It seems like Im around an FTP of 180, but I can hold 250 for 3-4 minutes. What do I need to be able to generate to ride up jester/yaupon/courtyard at not a snails pace?

 

I feel like a roadie, but at least Im getting some ride time in. I also appreciate how the roadies monitor power, heart rate, and cadence to optimize fitness. 

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Do 2X20min at 85% FTP 2x/week  (Trainerroad has this workout in their plans)

Do 6X3min hill repeats

Not enough cooling on the trainer will limit your output power.

Edit:  I totally misunderstood your question.  I thought you were asking for what kind of workouts.

Yes, what Anita Handle said is spot on.

Edited by AntonioGG
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3 minutes ago, Anita Handle said:

Someone needs to make a Zwift but with actual MTB scenery and a VR headset. I might could get into something like that.

That would be pretty awesome.  Once VR headsets get light enough, are wireless, and are sufficiently high resolution (4K or 8K).

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4 minutes ago, Albert said:

That would be pretty awesome.  Once VR headsets get light enough, are wireless, and are sufficiently high resolution (4K or 8K).

yeah, plus had some sort of cooling built in, or minimal blocking of a fan. I'm not experienced with VR, do you think it really needs to be that high with the screen so close to your eyeballs? I can't imagine you could discern a pixel at 4k with that small of a screen.

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26 minutes ago, crazyt said:

added a shifter to my bike so I can ride outside of erg mode. What seems to work well is running a training program first and then continuing to ride in regular mode after.

What kind of power are people getting? It seems like Im around an FTP of 180, but I can hold 250 for 3-4 minutes. What do I need to be able to generate to ride up jester/yaupon/courtyard at not a snails pace?

 

I feel like a roadie, but at least Im getting some ride time in. I also appreciate how the roadies monitor power, heart rate, and cadence to optimize fitness. 

SO, for example, this loser named Howard Grotts made it up Courtyard at 10.7 mph and averaged a little over 400 watts for 3 min 45 seconds. Not sure what he weighs though.

 

grotts_courtyard.png

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9 minutes ago, Anita Handle said:

yeah, plus had some sort of cooling built in, or minimal blocking of a fan. I'm not experienced with VR, do you think it really needs to be that high with the screen so close to your eyeballs? I can't imagine you could discern a pixel at 4k with that small of a screen.

Yes, definitely, if you want it to be high enough resolution to make it look more realistic.  Current headsets are cool, but don't have nearly enough pixels.  And I agree about cooling, this is one of the reasons I said "lighter", but sweating with one of these things on will probably be the biggest problem in implementing this. 

But, then, people are doing stuff like this while wearing a VR headset, so maybe it wouldn't be too bad. 

 

 

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Albert, I have a coolshirt from back in my racing days.  Those things were almost a must while racing inside a car in the Texas heat.  Cockpit temps >125°F are the norm.  With no power steering, the effort in the car is pretty demanding (or so I used to think).  Flicking on the switch while waiting for the race start was awesome.  You're instantly cooled to a comfortable temperature.  So I figured, I can get some use out of my coolsuit, wear it while I'm on my trainer.  HA!!  The amount of heat and sweat you produce when doing a HIT workout for 1 hour is pretty intense.  Anywhere airflow is blocked, you'll be sweating heavily.  I can't imagine wearing goggles.

I hate the trainer.  I ride in temps to 100°F and below freezing.  I ride in the rain.  I pretty much just use it as a last resort or if thunderstorms or high wind are forecasted, but it is extremely effective in getting you in shape quickly.  Follow one of Trainerroad's 6 week programs and you'll be pleasantly surprised.

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57 minutes ago, Albert said:

Yes, definitely, if you want it to be high enough resolution to make it look more realistic.  Current headsets are cool, but don't have nearly enough pixels.  And I agree about cooling, this is one of the reasons I said "lighter", but sweating with one of these things on will probably be the biggest problem in implementing this. 

But, then, people are doing stuff like this while wearing a VR headset, so maybe it wouldn't be too bad. 

 

Zwift is already playing with VR, but just VR of of their own rendered worlds. I think VR of actual MTB scenery might be rad.

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16 minutes ago, Anita Handle said:

Zwift is already playing with VR, but just VR of of their own rendered worlds. I think VR of actual MTB scenery might be rad.

Yeah, I've seen that, but haven't heard anything recently about it.  The graphics in Zwift aren't that great, but I think their goal is to support as many devices as possible without needing a high-end graphics card.  Do wish they'd push it up a notch, though.  Doing a mountain biking VR simulation would be harder to pull off, but I expect it'll happen eventually. 

 ..Al

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4 minutes ago, AntonioGG said:

What would be the purpose of doing VR MTB trails if you can't move the bike around--which is the big differentiator as compared to road cycling?  Short of a full hydraulic setup in which you can move the bike, I don't see the point.  What am I missing?  (disclosure:  have never tried VR stuff)

There are people who have made platforms that allow you to rock side to side while riding, but that still won't give you the and down, nor the sensation of riding over stuff.  I could see more advanced platforms being developed in the future that do incorporate hydraulics.  It's not going to be close to the sensation of riding a mountain bike, even with a smart trainer that increases resistance on climbs and lowers it for descents.  Still, you'd be surprised at how VR can trick your mind, even if the visuals don't approach those of "reality".  And it would be great for those periods of time when we have lots of rain, such as recently here.. 

 ..Al

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13 minutes ago, AntonioGG said:

What would be the purpose of doing VR MTB trails if you can't move the bike around--which is the big differentiator as compared to road cycling?  Short of a full hydraulic setup in which you can move the bike, I don't see the point.  What am I missing?  (disclosure:  have never tried VR stuff)

I think I would find the scenery more entertaining and with VR, more immersive. Maybe it wouldn't be that great but I'd love to look over to the right and see the exposure on Porcupine Rim and Castle Valley down below. See natural objects, landmarks, rivers, valleys, etc rather than low-res 3D generated graphics.

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What would be the purpose of doing VR MTB trails if you can't move the bike around--which is the big differentiator as compared to road cycling?  Short of a full hydraulic setup in which you can move the bike, I don't see the point.  What am I missing?  (disclosure:  have never tried VR stuff)
Maybe a hybrid of a Riprow(or whatever that thing is called) and a trainer?

Sent from my CMR-W09 using Tapatalk

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