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mack_turtle

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Roku is the best non-platform platform out there. I use it with Netflix, Amazon, Plex and even Spectrum. For Spectrum anybody that is paying for cable boxes is nuts.

If you have heavy usage devices (like in a family room where 80% of the activity happens) then hard wire it so that you NEVER have an issue. For lesser used devices then wireless is fine, as long as you have a decent signal to those rooms.

4K only takes ~20-25Mb/s depending on the source (and the compression) so it should do just fine over wireless and most of what you will watch will be under 4K. The reason I say hardwired on the main one is that sometimes wireless can be the victim of interference. With a wired connection there are fewer things to go wrong. Also, with a wired model you can leave it on 24x7. The wireless ones I have on non-used TVs are all the sticks - really convenient but they boot up when the TV is powered on, so you have to wait through the boot process. The larger (hockey puck) size Rokus have their own power, and when you turn the TV on they are immediately ready to go because I never put them to sleep.

I would not pay to wire your house unless you start running into problems. Decent wiring is ~$100-150 per drop so it get expensive quickly. It is usually cheaper to invest in better wireless. I know a ton about this and can help out. Also @AntonioGG knows a lot about networking as well.

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I cut the cord 10 years ago or so.   I have been doing Netflix since before then (DVD service...remember that?) and I still do.  

  1. If you like local channels, get a good roof antenna.  You'll need the one with the most gain if you want to get channel 7.  With digital TV, there are lots more than the usual 5 channels.  Anything from 4 PBS channels (regular one plus others that include "Create" which has cooking, This Old House, that kind of stuff), to secondary channels for each network that show almost nothing but old shows.  Everything from The Munsters, to Six Million Dollar Man, to a channel that does nothing but old movies.  I can't stand commercials anymore so I'd rather just pay to rent a movie if I want to watch it, but my kids love watching the old shows.  Before this TV, my entertainment machine was a small computer with a dual video tuner running Windows 7 Home Premium which includes the Media Center.  It was awesome with the included guide and DVR.  You could record and watch something else.  Howeveer, Microsoft did not bring this feature forward to Windows 10.  I think the prevalence of smart TVs did away with this.  Also, I think DVRs (and DVDs) are gone forever.  New movies I buy are in the cloud now.
  2. You can spend a ton of money if you want to watch all the exact same things that you do now.  It used to be easier to get Netflix and watch the shows and movies from all the studios, but since then, studios started to create their own streaming services and pulled their shows and movies from Netflix.  Netflix still has a ton of good stuff, including some really cool and unique foreign shows and movies as well as older and newer American stuff.  It's worth mentioning also that their in-house stuff has some good things in it (and some awful ones too.)
  3. For sports, I don't watch much of any sports, but my kids like basketball, my wife likes tennis, I like cycling and car racing.  The cool thing about streaming services is we can start and stop without penalty.  Wimbledon is on? We turn on the SlingTV service, then turn it off after.  I have mentioned NBC Sports Gold for cycling (and other sports) is a good deal IMO.  I also got the F1 TV streaming service.  I got the non-live (I can watch the races an hour after it's over, most  I can't watch live anyway) option which is a good deal, and includes old races you can stream.  Watching cycling has replaced watching a lot of other sports.  Be open to changing your habits (after college, I used to spend literally all Saturday from College Gameday to the last game watching college football, sometimes on picture in picture and flipping between different games at the same time.  So much time wasted!!)
  4. I got HBO only for Game of Thrones initially, and I used to wait for the season to be over, then binge all the episodes.  But man, it's really hard to compare the overall quality of the stuff HBO puts out to the overall quality of other channels.  It's almost hard to find a bad HBO produced movie or show.  I now keep it year round.  I love HBO sports.  It's a throwback to what ABC used to put out, like a 60 minutes or Sunday Morning but for sports.
  5. Roku, FireTV, AppleTV are sort of aggregators.  I have a Roku I'll probably use with my dumb 2006 TV that now lives in the garage.  With the new Smart TVs I just watch natively...even if some of the apps really suck universally (Amazon Video sucks on LG and on AppleTV equally, it is better on a browser).
  6. All my devices are wireless on 802.3ac.  As @AustinBike mentioned, you don't really need a lot of BW.  I used to have my dumb TV in the living room so I needed a Linksys antenna and I had a lot of trouble with it.  But the new TV, the AppleTV, the computers and other devices are all wireless and I have no bandwidth issues.  I had 24Mbps U-verse internet before (2 DSL lines) and had no issues with SD and HD.  I have Spectrum 300Mbps now and can stream 4k. I should note that I'm not terribly hung up on resolution though...after all I had a 1080i 2006 LCD TV as our only TV until this past January.  In fact I think some stuff on 4K UHD looks like it was made with a digital camcorder.  LG has a mode that makes it look more like a movie theater experience so that's what I have on all the time.   I'm a huge fan of good stories and characters and I think a lot of time the special effects are too emphasized and the story not so much...but I digress.  
  7. Do get a good router with multiple antennas.  This will help prevent the fades that can interrupt your connection.

 

 

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3 hours ago, AustinBike said:

OMG Bundesliga is back!!!!!!

I’m as Giddy as a schoolgirl.

RIGHT!  Watched 3 games yesterday  and 2 today. There is a match on Monday and then Friday. So odd watching with no crowds but so what.

During the Dortmund game yesterday you can hear a Schalke player suggest to Haaland he should go @#$& his grandmother. Wouldnt hear that over a crowd.

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Cut the cord 3-4 years ago. I have Amazon Fire TV w/prime $10 a month, Netflix $13 a month and Hulu I think is $11-12 a month also have an Apple TV that I don't use that much. Don't miss cable or satellite at all. I watch quite a bit of YouTube but don't subscribe to YouTube TV. With cable and satellite you have 150+ channels but nothing to watch. When I had cable/satellite I'd watch maybe five channels out of all the crap they provided.

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20 hours ago, AntonioGG said:

Do get a good router with multiple antennas.  This will help prevent the fades that can interrupt your connection.

@AustinBike@AntonioGG Thank you both for the great advice - this is exactly what I needed to hear. I started investigating further and see now that when I drop U-verse, AT&T is going to remove my bundle discount on the Gigabit internet service, which I may be able to offset by just dropping down to 300Mbs (sounds like that will be enough bandwidth coming into the home). If I stick with AT&T then it sounds like what I'll need to do is disable the router function on the modem-router combo box that they have in my closet, and connect my own router with some sort of mesh wi-fi to cover the 3800 sq ft of living space spread across 2 floors. I have one wired ethernet connection upstairs; so I'm thinking I would want to connect one wireless access point there that is hardwired. Beyond that though, would my wi-fi network be essentially made up of wireless repeaters that just plug into an AC outlet and push the incoming radio signal further out? 

Really appreciate the free advice from our local MTB experts in this field. I get so aggravated when I start asking questions of Geek Squad and quickly realize that even I know better than they do. Believe it or not I used to be quite the networking guru myself, but that was when IBM Token-ring was a thing and we were using IRMA cards to connect PCs to 3270 control units via coax. 


 

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Yes, I had gigabit (long story) and when they started charging me Gb rates I dropped back down to 300Mbs speed and never noticed the difference, and more importantly, neither did my wife.

The key is that the gigabit speed is between you and their NOC, not to the rest of the internet. The ugly secret is that if they have Gb to your premises but only a 500Mbs upstream from their NOC to the POP, then, technically the best you will ever get is 500Mbs. This is why all of the gigabit providers host their own Speedtest to show you how fast they are - they don't want you going to the real Speedtest outside of their network or you discover the ugly secret. I would find ~900-950Mb/s to Grande's Speedtest and that would drop to 4-500Mb/s when I hit anything else in Travis county. Then you consider that the bulk of my content is either outside of Texas or niche enough that it isn't going to sit on one of the peering CDNs, so everything is gonna be slow anyway. Today I have a 400Mbs Spectrum plan that started out as 300, which was fine.

As to the router, there are a couple of options:

1. If you are paying by month for the router, see if they have a cable modem only option that is cheaper. I have just a cable modem with no routing/switching/wifi capability. If they offer you the option to bring your own modem AND you feel comfortable troubleshooting, you can usually pay that purchase off in ~8 months. Get a good brand name like Motorola and run your own. 

2. If you have to get their modem/router/gateway/etc then I recommend putting it into bridge mode and using your own router. Bridge mode removes the "double NAT" issue and makes it easier for device configuration on your end if you rely on external access. With a Double NAT you have one more level of hurdles between you and the internet, it's like wearing two pair of underwear, which is a pain in the ass any time you need to pee.

If you are going with multiple WiFi access points make sure they are hardwired. Any wifi backhaul or extenders are crap in my opinion. wifi backhaul takes too much bandwidth and wifi extenders are basically just bandaids that fool you into believing your performance is better but it secretly is worse. I use Ubiquiti Unifi and if you are a nerd, have the money and are really into networking, then this is a really good option. But if not, Amplify (their consumer brand) is solid. I've heard good things about Eero but never used it, same with Linksys Velop. Stay far away from Orbi (Netgear) and Plume, I've had nothing but problems dealing with them, primarily because of the WiFi backhaul.

Oh, and a vendor just asked me to write a "setting up a home network" article so yeah, you'll be able to read more online soon 😉

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33 minutes ago, throet said:

Beyond that though, would my wi-fi network be essentially made up of wireless repeaters that just plug into an AC outlet and push the incoming radio signal further out? 

These are really, really bad. This is like buying a Wal-mart MTB. Yeah, it's a bike, yeah, it's got wheels. But that is about it.

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20 hours ago, AntonioGG said:

I cut the cord 10 years ago or so.   I have been doing Netflix since before then (DVD service...remember that?) and I still do.

I saw a guy using a Redbox the other day. I'm amazed those things are still there.

 

Anyway, since I don't watch sports at all, I also have been without cable for about 10 or more years as well. For me it was about wanting à la carte tv, I just didn't want to pay for a lot of channels that I didn't want.  We watch most services, like Amazon, Netflix and YT on our smart tv. For some reason Hulu and Disney+ just work better on Xbox.  Just a little copy paste from my budget, but following are the services that we currently use. It ends up being just under $90 month for the services, and just under $170 including Spectrum internet. Of course this doesn't count 2-3 movies rented on Amazon each month.

image.png.d4e44f5da084c23c2e147232a6625da3.png

 

And then the newest thing, which is more pertinent to this thread, is that we started watching some Masterclasses. They are very well produced and go into significant detail on their topics including PDF workbooks. I'm really into the Aaron Franklin one at the moment, and looking forward to quite a few others. 

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Yeah, for sure @AustinBike knows more about setting up networks.  I just design the HW.  I've hired my friend to setup my home network in the past.  I actually hate messing with it LOL!

So the mesh networks like Synology has are not good?  I don't need one for my 2100 sq ft. house, but I was curious about it.  I haven't read up on it.

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55 minutes ago, AustinBike said:

As to the router, there are a couple of options:

1. If you are paying by month for the router, see if they have a cable modem only option that is cheaper. I have just a cable modem with no routing/switching/wifi capability. If they offer you the option to bring your own modem AND you feel comfortable troubleshooting, you can usually pay that purchase off in ~8 months. Get a good brand name like Motorola and run your own. 

2. If you have to get their modem/router/gateway/etc then I recommend putting it into bridge mode and using your own router. Bridge mode removes the "double NAT" issue and makes it easier for device configuration on your end if you rely on external access. With a Double NAT you have one more level of hurdles between you and the internet, it's like wearing two pair of underwear, which is a pain in the ass any time you need to pee.

Okay - Another "I just want it to work" wi-fi user here that needs help.  I have Spectrum internet (normal speeds) and I use their provided cable modem/router.  The cable comes into the house upstairs and this is where I have the modem/router in the bedroom closet.  I have an OTA antenna in the attic that also goes to this same closet and then down the only cable drop to the downstairs.  This means I either have the cable modem downstairs with no antenna for local channels OR I have the modem upstairs in the closet.  I need a more stable signal downstairs (small house) and I'd really like to stop paying Spectrum $5/month to rent their stupid cable modem/router.  Should I....:

  1. Buy a new cable modem and 'bridge' it to a new router?
  2. Buy a new cable modem/router combo?
  3. Move the router downstairs and try to pull another coax cable down to the TV for the antenna?

Option 1 and 2 seem like the better routes (cables in 2020??) but I have no idea which modem/router or modem and router to get.  AB mentions "Motorola" but can I assume that any of the range of modems/routers will work?  I don't mind paying for quality but I want the thing to work.

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2 hours ago, AntonioGG said:

Yeah, for sure @AustinBike knows more about setting up networks.  I just design the HW.  I've hired my friend to setup my home network in the past.  I actually hate messing with it LOL!

So the mesh networks like Synology has are not good?  I don't need one for my 2100 sq ft. house, but I was curious about it.  I haven't read up on it.

I would trust Synology for a mesh. The most important parts of a mesh are an intelligent controller and handoff capability. You only get this as a combined set. Being able to do a cabled backhaul is the other important part.

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2 hours ago, Tree Magnet said:

Okay - Another "I just want it to work" wi-fi user here that needs help.  I have Spectrum internet (normal speeds) and I use their provided cable modem/router.  The cable comes into the house upstairs and this is where I have the modem/router in the bedroom closet.  I have an OTA antenna in the attic that also goes to this same closet and then down the only cable drop to the downstairs.  This means I either have the cable modem downstairs with no antenna for local channels OR I have the modem upstairs in the closet.  I need a more stable signal downstairs (small house) and I'd really like to stop paying Spectrum $5/month to rent their stupid cable modem/router.  Should I....:

  1. Buy a new cable modem and 'bridge' it to a new router?
  2. Buy a new cable modem/router combo?
  3. Move the router downstairs and try to pull another coax cable down to the TV for the antenna?

Option 1 and 2 seem like the better routes (cables in 2020??) but I have no idea which modem/router or modem and router to get.  AB mentions "Motorola" but can I assume that any of the range of modems/routers will work?  I don't mind paying for quality but I want the thing to work.

The key on buying a cable modem is that your carrier supports it. Start with their list of approved modems. Motorola is the gold standard (in my opinion) and Arris is #2.

You can get a cable modem with router and wifi so check your carrier's list. Let me take a look at the spectrum list and get back to you on a good choice.

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OK, here's the long and short of the spectrum approved modems.

First, if you are not comfortable being your own tech support then stop reading here. 

This is the scenario:

"Thank you for calling Spectrum"

"Yeah, my internet seems to be out."

"Hmmm, let me check, I can see your modem so you do have a connection. Thanks for calling have a good day."

Now, if this does not scare you and you don't want to spend $6-12 / month then read on.

Basically your CPE (customer premises equipment) is what they provide to you. The network chain is as follows:

Cable > Cable modem > Router > Switch > Access point 

All of your clients will hang off of the switch (if they are wired) or off of the access point (if they are wireless). You can cascade multiple switches if you need to get more wired clients attached, this is a simple 30-second exercise, including unboxing and plugging in. You cannot (easily or effectively) add more wifi capability, there are plenty of ways to do it but all are either an amount of work, an amount of money, or varying results. Or all 3.

But let's focus on replacing the Spectrum equipment.

If you have your own router and wifi equipment then you only need to replace their cable modem. For that I recommend this from their list:

For Gigabit speeds: https://www.amazon.com/ARRIS-SURFboard-Approved-SB8200-Frustration/dp/B07DY16W2Z

For up to 400Mbs speed: https://www.amazon.com/MOTOROLA-MB7621-Approved-Spectrum-Downloads/dp/B077BL65HS/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=Motorola+MB7621&qid=1589827165&s=electronics&sr=1-2

For up to 400Mbs: https://www.amazon.com/MOTOROLA-Approved-Comcast-Gigablast-MB8600/dp/B0723599RQ/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=Motorola+MB8600&qid=1589827306&s=electronics&sr=1-4

If you need a Cable Modem, Router AND WiFi:

For Gigabit speeds (4 ethernet ports): https://www.amazon.com/ARRIS-Surfboard-Gigabit-Certified-Xfinity/dp/B07M9J3XW2/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=arris+sbg8300&qid=1589827029&s=electronics&sr=1-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzT0U5M01TU0xPTU0xJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzY5NDYyNEpWRFdGQjk0WlNLJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAyMTMwNzYzUFg2RFZZTDRCVEtNJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

For 400Mbs (2 ethernet ports): https://www.amazon.com/ARRIS-Surfboard-Certified-Spectrum-SBG10/dp/B07H42QXF1/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=Arris+SBG7600AC2&qid=1589827456&s=electronics&sr=1-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEySjdCNVhXOTVZMEhKJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMTY2NTk1Wk8xOFJCWkw1VjJOJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAxMzg2OTdHSDlLMzBMTUg2WCZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

 

When shopping you want to remember the following things:

1. Is it supported by my carrier? That means it is on their website. If their website lists an SB7700 and Amazon now sells the replacement SB7711, don't assume that the 7711 is also supported. Buy the one on their site, regardless of the price of other models.

2. The "all in one" design seems appealing, but before going too far down that rabbithole, think about the road shifters built into the brake levers vs. MTB where they are separate. Both have their advantages and both have their disadvantages. I steer clear of all in ones, because when one piece goes south or needs an upgrade, it is expensive every time. 

3. Motorola and Arris are not great wifi or ethernet providers. If you want the most robust solution stick with their cable modem only and then get something else that better suits your needs. 

4. Remember the "up to" on performance. If your carrier says "up to 400Mbs" and the Amazon page says up to 1Gb, go with your carrier. There are channel bonding issues in DOCSIS that might prevent your carrier from getting the full bandwidth.

5. Don't forget your VOIP. Some cable modems (like mine) have VoIP and if you don't consider that in your buying you may have an ugly surprise when you go to install it if you are getting VoIP services from the carrier.

If you have any specific questions, ask away, I have plenty of time in this lockdown.

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9 hours ago, AustinBike said:

2. The "all in one" design seems appealing, but before going too far down that rabbithole, think about the road shifters built into the brake levers vs. MTB where they are separate. Both have their advantages and both have their disadvantages. I steer clear of all in ones, because when one piece goes south or needs an upgrade, it is expensive every time. 

Never have I ever bought a TV-VCR combo.

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My "adult life" started in 2004 and I've never had cable in all that time. My parents never wanted to pay for cable either. I skipped cable and DVR and went straight to streaming. fast Google Fiber makes that a no-brainer now. why on Earth do people pay for cable? it sounds like such a rip-off.

When we got married, my wife worked at Blockbuster Video, so we had the rare treat of watching newly released movies at home before everyone else could. That's godlike when all of your friends are also broke college students.

When Hulu first started, it was just a lot of broadcast TV shows streaming so you didn't have to put a VHS tape (I used those for long after they were relevant) to see a show that was on at an inconvenient time and it was still all free. we were broke AF anyways, so there was no way we were going to pay to watch TV every month. I never got into the DVR thing either. I don't watch sports except for Arsenal games and those are more fun at The Tavern anyhow.

right now we "share" a Netflix account and an HBO account, so we pay $15 a month for TV, that's it. We got sucked into Outlander so we pay a few bucks for Stars until that is over. We get the occasional Redbox movie because they send coupons all the time, so our total video entertainment costs are less than $25 a month.

Ford Vs. Ferrari was pretty good, but I would not complain if they had given Caitriona Balfe more screen time.

Edited by mack_turtle
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We went to YouTube TV from spectrum a while ago. No regrets whatsoever. Their DVR is better than expected. That’s really what kept us paying for cable. My wife likes to watch a lot of crappy network hospital shows and I like to start recording sports and try to catch up during commercials. YT TV has recorded everything we wanted plus some it thinks we wanted and I think we have unlimited storage. Of course we still pay Spectrum plenty of money for the privilege of streaming it.

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I just hooked up ATT fiber at house (from decades long use of spectrum/tw/et al.) It's already 1/2 what I was paying Spectrum for 100gb. I did run the speedtest and it was pegged at around 400-500, so not QUITE the 1000, still a better deal than I had. I was actually surprised at how well the wifi worked, as I have always used a wired connection (for desktop/gaming pc; ps3/amazon fire tv were always wifi.) Sad thing is, my firetv remote broke a while back, so I was using the wifi app on phone. When I moved and had to setup a new wifi connection, I can no longer use the firetv, as it's still setup for my old wifi network, and phone app won't connect...so I just ordered a new firetv remote...thankfully there's a non-amazon, cheaper remote that works with firetv. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

So I checked out Part 1 of the new Lance Armstrong documentary - pretty interesting stuff. Never followed road riding so I'm curious. Do they still ride the Tour De France with no helmets? Seemed insane seeing those guys riding at those speeds with nothing protecting their noggins! 

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6 hours ago, AntonioGG said:

Interesting articles! I would have concluded that it was the wind drag and not the heat that kept helmets from being adopted earlier on in the sport. Was that just a lame excuse or do the helmets really prevent proper cooling for those guys? I would think when you're going that fast, the wind would provide enough cooling to compensate, but then again, I'll never know what it's like to produce that type of wattage.  

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