Strangest COVID-19 stuff you have witnessed

[mack_turtle]

I could be wrong, but I don't see much point in wearing a mask outdoors. Maybe in a crowded space. I wear mine hanging off my neck when driving and walking through a parking lot. I pull it up over my nose and mouth like a decent human watching out for neighbors right before I go inside.

Mine is handmaid, double layer cotton. Yeah, it's a bit warm after a while, even indoors. I would not mind a cooler one, but if it breathes better, it's probably not doing it's job.

Mask while driving - WTF?

[AntonioGG]

3 hours ago, TheX said:

I don't hink they are doing much good

Please elaborate.  I want to understand where this is coming from.

[TheX]

51 minutes ago, AntonioGG said:

Please elaborate.  I want to understand where this is coming from.

I feel that more people have had the virus than most realize, and that it is nowhere near as bad as people have been led to believe. I have been out and active for the whole time, and there are a LOT of unmasked people shopping/biking/hiking/living with virtually no social distancing. Have been for a long time. Millions aren't dying. A mask is only good at stopping spit. Most people use the same mask over and over, so any virus that it blocks is just built up and being spread every time they put it on, take it off, adjust it, etc. 

Everything people pickup in the grocery store has been touched, breathed on, otherwise molested by who knows how many other people. Add to that your amazon packages, mail, mailbox, food, virtually everything, and you can't avoid what others are sharing. Even if you stay at home, with a vaccine nowhere near ready (they have failed at all previous Covid vaccines) it will be waiting when you come back outside. My wife and I have been at nearly every hospital, and multiple doctors offices, along with home care nurses over the last three months. They are all saying the same thing. Hospitals are empty, and they believe that it has been around since late last year. Asymptomatic people aren't spreading it, and a LOT of people have already had it and didn't realize that's what it was.

Many places are admitting that they were initially taking people that were suspected of having Covid, along with people that died WITH Covid...and lumping them in with the people that died FROM Covid. When you look at the number of people that have had it being MUCH higher than first thought, and the number of people that actually died FROM it, the % of people dying is a LOT lower.

Add all of these things together, and the mask just isn't doing much real good. What is needed is reliable, and available anti-body testing to see who HAS had it. No one is saying people aren't getting very sick, and dying. People die from bad flu, we don't destroy the economy, and people's jobs, and most of all small businesses over it. 

If you want to wear masks everywhere, and stay home, that's your business. We just rehired about 300 of the 1,500 people we had to layoff. The hundreds we furloughed haven't been called back yet. Your mask isn't helping the real disaster.

This is nothing more than my opinion, and it's worth exactly $0.00 to the rest of the world. I'm sure a lot of you disagree, and that's fine. 

The US has gone insane lately, and people think that violence and hate is going to make their point, I'm hoping that being kind to each other prevails.

[AntonioGG]

Thanks for that elaborate post and specifying this is how you feel and see things.  I appreciate it.

I think COVID19 has affected groups of people differently.  The more white collar our job is, the more we can work from home, the less it has affected us.   There are groups of people that are being affected disproportionally.  Pretty much anyone posting here in this thread is not in one of those groups.

As to mask effectiveness, I don't care if people re-use their mask and it has their spit/snot in it.  I re-use my homemade mask a few times before washing it.  I keep it in my car where it's nice and hot and I only have to go into work once a week at most (though 3x this week).  That's the point.  To keep that spit from getting everywhere.  It's not the goal to 100% absolutely block the virus from everywhere (even health care workers with better masks than most people wear are getting sick).  It's a statistical game.  You reduce the chances of someone getting sick, and you reduce the chances of more people getting sick at the same time.  That's all.  I'll repeat, wearing the mask is not protecting you, it's about protecting everyone else.  The no shoes, no shirt, no service is a good analogy.  Same thing with hairnets (beard nets too!) and gloves for food preparers.  Come to think of it, why didn't we require food preparers to wear masks even before COVID-19? Think about all those E-Coli outbreaks that could have been prevented! ...but I digress.

I will also grant you, many people will end up getting it before a vaccine is available, probably over 50% of the population.  The primary goal is to keep those hospitals below capacity. So far we've done a good job.  We'll see how some places (Houston, Phoenix, Atlanta) will do in the next few weeks.  We'll also start seeing how the more rural areas with not great coverage of healthcare will do now that the've started getting it.

As to mortality rates and comparisons to the flu, yes, the mortality rate is not that high right now.  The mortality percentages are approaching an asymptote as more data is obtained and more testing is gong on, but keep in mind that the mortality rate is not linear once the healthcare system is overrun.  It's only going to stay linear as long as healthcare is not overwhelmed.  There is one huge difference between SARS-COV-2 (the virus that causes COVID-19) and the influenza virus.  In general, the flu is not infectious until people start running a fever, so people tend to stay home when they're sick.  My kids' school district required kids to be fever free for 24 hours before they're allowed to go back to school.   As some of you have pointed out, this virus has some people with no symptoms at all and they are shedding virus.  Even the people that get sick from it eventually, they start shedding before they get sick (this is why I think taking temperatures when coming into a store is only to make people feel better and more safe, kinda like TSA about flying).  This is why it's a pandemic and not just a flu season.

Yep, you're right.  Sadly as far as I know there are no coronavirus vaccines.  I think in the past work was stopped for MERS and SARS since those outbreaks were contained.  I do believe we will have a vaccine for SARS-COV-2 now that we must have it.  I also think we'll continue working on coronavirus research.  This will not be the last one.  It will not be the most deadly, or the least deadly ether.  There are millions of different coronaviri out there that can mutate and cause something new.

If we're having this discussion right now about whether the measures have been too severe or not, about whether we should be re-opening or making masks mandatory or not, it's only because we have benefitted from the pretty good social distancing, school and restaurant closures, and other measures that flattened the curve.

I'm glad y'all are re-hiring.  

I know as far as income, I'm lucky I have the job I do.  I'm lucky I have savings which allow me to not worry about having a job for a long time.  But, when I wear my mask, I keep in mind those people that don't have a choice.  They don't work and they don't eat or they have to go to the food bank and may loose their home.  We go shopping, we get packages, we order food out, we go to the bike shops, we still need first responders, USPS/FedEx/UPS, plumbers, AC techs, pest control, auto mechanics, etc..  The people working all those jobs have to work.  I don't want them getting sick so I wear my mask for them.  I also wear my mask for my fellow citizens that are immunocompromised.

[RidingAgain]

4 hours ago, TheX said:

This is nothing more than my opinion, and it's worth exactly $0.00 to the rest of the world. I'm sure a lot of you disagree, and that's fine. 

Unfortunately, that's not really true.

Opinions don't just end at the typing of one on an online forum... Opinions lead to a type of living that includes how you interact with those around you... Which, in the case of a virus, can mean that your opinion can end up causing the death of someone.

[notyal]

5 hours ago, TheX said:

I feel that more people have had the virus than most realize, and that it is nowhere near as bad as people have been led to believe. I have been out and active for the whole time, and there are a LOT of unmasked people shopping/biking/hiking/living with virtually no social distancing. Have been for a long time. Millions aren't dying. A mask is only good at stopping spit. Most people use the same mask over and over, so any virus that it blocks is just built up and being spread every time they put it on, take it off, adjust it, etc. 

Everything people pickup in the grocery store has been touched, breathed on, otherwise molested by who knows how many other people. Add to that your amazon packages, mail, mailbox, food, virtually everything, and you can't avoid what others are sharing. Even if you stay at home, with a vaccine nowhere near ready (they have failed at all previous Covid vaccines) it will be waiting when you come back outside. My wife and I have been at nearly every hospital, and multiple doctors offices, along with home care nurses over the last three months. They are all saying the same thing. Hospitals are empty, and they believe that it has been around since late last year. Asymptomatic people aren't spreading it, and a LOT of people have already had it and didn't realize that's what it was.

Many places are admitting that they were initially taking people that were suspected of having Covid, along with people that died WITH Covid...and lumping them in with the people that died FROM Covid. When you look at the number of people that have had it being MUCH higher than first thought, and the number of people that actually died FROM it, the % of people dying is a LOT lower.

Add all of these things together, and the mask just isn't doing much real good. What is needed is reliable, and available anti-body testing to see who HAS had it. No one is saying people aren't getting very sick, and dying. People die from bad flu, we don't destroy the economy, and people's jobs, and most of all small businesses over it. 

If you want to wear masks everywhere, and stay home, that's your business. We just rehired about 300 of the 1,500 people we had to layoff. The hundreds we furloughed haven't been called back yet. Your mask isn't helping the real disaster.

This is nothing more than my opinion, and it's worth exactly $0.00 to the rest of the world. I'm sure a lot of you disagree, and that's fine. 

The US has gone insane lately, and people think that violence and hate is going to make their point, I'm hoping that being kind to each other prevails.

I can accept that there is a possibility that some of this is true, and I genuinely hope the parts about it not being as bad as people are making it out to be are true. However, I still can't see what you would have to lose by wearing a mask in public. 

Let's say you are completely correct about mask not being all that effective and COVID not being that bad. Even if the only benefit of wearing a mask is to make us sissy pro-maskers more comfortable, then more of us would come out of the house, go to movies, shop at the mall, eat at restaurants, return to work, etc., etc. That would still be a win for the economy and society...all because we agreed on a relatively easy thing to do.

Oh yeah, and there is still the possibility that wearing a mask helps prevent the spread of a deadly disease. Basically it's a win-win.

Edited June 14, 2020 by notyal

[Tree Magnet]

I feel that more people have had the virus than most realize, and that it is nowhere near as bad as people have been led to believe. I have been out and active for the whole time, and there are a LOT of unmasked people shopping/biking/hiking/living with virtually no social distancing. Have been for a long time. Millions aren't dying. A mask is only good at stopping spit. Most people use the same mask over and over, so any virus that it blocks is just built up and being spread every time they put it on, take it off, adjust it, etc. 
Everything people pickup in the grocery store has been touched, breathed on, otherwise molested by who knows how many other people. Add to that your amazon packages, mail, mailbox, food, virtually everything, and you can't avoid what others are sharing. Even if you stay at home, with a vaccine nowhere near ready (they have failed at all previous Covid vaccines) it will be waiting when you come back outside. My wife and I have been at nearly every hospital, and multiple doctors offices, along with home care nurses over the last three months. They are all saying the same thing. Hospitals are empty, and they believe that it has been around since late last year. Asymptomatic people aren't spreading it, and a LOT of people have already had it and didn't realize that's what it was.
Many places are admitting that they were initially taking people that were suspected of having Covid, along with people that died WITH Covid...and lumping them in with the people that died FROM Covid. When you look at the number of people that have had it being MUCH higher than first thought, and the number of people that actually died FROM it, the % of people dying is a LOT lower.
Add all of these things together, and the mask just isn't doing much real good. What is needed is reliable, and available anti-body testing to see who HAS had it. No one is saying people aren't getting very sick, and dying. People die from bad flu, we don't destroy the economy, and people's jobs, and most of all small businesses over it. 
If you want to wear masks everywhere, and stay home, that's your business. We just rehired about 300 of the 1,500 people we had to layoff. The hundreds we furloughed haven't been called back yet. Your mask isn't helping the real disaster.
This is nothing more than my opinion, and it's worth exactly $0.00 to the rest of the world. I'm sure a lot of you disagree, and that's fine. 
The US has gone insane lately, and people think that violence and hate is going to make their point, I'm hoping that being kind to each other prevails.

I hope your science is right. I really, really do. However, there is a chance it’s wrong. Even parts of it. Wearing a mask and taking these extra precautions really seems like a pretty damn cheap insurance policy to me. I’d rather be inconvenienced and be part of the solution than exercise my liberties and take the chance on being part of the problem. That’s just me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AustinBike]

If you think a mask is impeding your freedom, don't worry, that decision is probably going to be made for you eventually by the governor.

We keep taking all the tools off the table and the numbers keep running up.

Eventually Abbott will be faced with 2 options: either put more restrictions in place or just sit back and let the infections and deaths keep going up.

My guess is that it will be the former, not the latter, because while he is a real ass, he is not an idiot. Dan Patrick might be fine with this curve if it means he can get a haircut any time he wants, but Abbott cares about reelection. 

If you think Texas businesses suffered because they had to be closed down, imagine the impact of open businesses where nobody feels comfortable patronizing them. We probably won't have a second, mandated shutdown but there may be a consumer-driven one where people just stop going to these places because they just don't feel safe. That is probably worse because a.)there is variable cost in keeping a business open when there is no traffic and b.) there are fewer business accommodations when businesses are not required to shut down. There are government programs that were put in place to help businesses during the shutdown, but if the restrictions are lifted and nobody shops, the owners are left high and dry. 

If you think the argument to reopen was strong, if it gets bad enough these businesses will be begging for another shutdown because a government mandate activates certain accomodations. Restaurants, for instance, can barely get by on 75% capacity. Telling them they can be open at 25% or 50% is basically putting the gun to their head. It is cheaper to stay closed, but then they suffer the backlash. This whole thing has been handled poorly.

[mack_turtle]

I suspect that most of the drive to "reopen the economy" from the government's perspective is to get people off unemployment. If a workers loses employment and does not have any option to return to work, they can get unemployment benefits (theoretically, but they have to get someone to answer the constantly clogged TWC system to respond first).

If they can get jobs, even shitty part-time ones that already didn't pay the bills before, they get thrown off unemployment benefits. I know this because it's happened to me before. The government generally doesn't care. They seem perfectly willing to sacrifice poor folks' bodies at the altar of profit and re-election.

Meanwhile, the federal government gives everyone $1200. Every last cent was gone before you got it if you really needed it.

[TAF]

21 hours ago, TheX said:

>Most people use the same mask over and over, so any virus that it blocks is just built up and being spread every time they put it on, take it off, adjust it, etc. 

While I think that your attitude is precisely why New Zealand has contained the virus, while in the USA it's a full-blown pandemic, I am quite curious about your statement above. Do you have some sort of (preferably scientific) evidence to support this?

[TheX]

I don't agree with *full blown pandemic* at all.

[ATXZJ]

5 hours ago, AustinBike said:

If you think a mask is impeding your freedom, don't worry, that decision is probably going to be made for you eventually by the governor.

 

Fake news! You'd have to be a cuck or a commie to believe in that science.

Sad thing is it almost feels like the powers at be are purposely dragging their feet as the most vulnerable (under served) will be the ones to get fitted for toe tags. Looking at the data coming in from 3rd world countries...... it's just f@cking terrifying. 

 

[TAF]

45 minutes ago, TheX said:

I don't agree with *full blown pandemic* at all.

Well, we'll have to agree to differ on that. But I'm more curious where you got your information that masks can retain the virus. Is this conjecture, or is there research behind it?

[AustinBike]

1 hour ago, ATXZJ said:

Fake news! You'd have to be a cuck or a commie to believe in that science.

Sad thing is it almost feels like the powers at be are purposely dragging their feet as the most vulnerable (under served) will be the ones to get fitted for toe tags. Looking at the data coming in from 3rd world countries...... it's just f@cking terrifying. 

 

Where are the 3 hottest spots in Texas?

Prisons, meat packing plants, and elder care facilities. You don't need to look to the third world to see how indifferent leadership can be about this because it is not impacting "their constituents." Funny that trump told his aides he really didn't care about the protests for the past few weeks because "those people probably didn't vote for me". What he failed to grasp in that thought was that the protest have greater than 50% support. That should have been a wake up call to anyone else.

[ATXZJ]

1 hour ago, AustinBike said:

Where are the 3 hottest spots in Texas?

Prisons, meat packing plants, and elder care facilities. You don't need to look to the third world to see how indifferent leadership can be about this because it is not impacting "their constituents." Funny that trump told his aides he really didn't care about the protests for the past few weeks because "those people probably didn't vote for me". What he failed to grasp in that thought was that the protest have greater than 50% support. That should have been a wake up call to anyone else.

You mean places filled with minorities, elderly and the poor? "takers instead of makers"? No surprise the ruling class doesn't care.

Went to main street pizza in buda to do a curbside and can say almost none of the patrons that I saw in the local bars/restaurants/businesses had any PPE. What's frustrating are all these people defiantly going out without a mask, will eventually get infected, and potentially end up in the hospital taking up a bed that someone who is at risk, and took every precaution, could have used. Seems pretty short sighted.

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by ATXZJ

[AustinBike]

I have 15 days until my surgery so let’s hope that they don’t eat up all of the resources too fast. 

[TheX]

St.Davids has PLENTY of open rooms/beds, and an average 4 minute ER wait. 

[Sluggo]

1 hour ago, TheX said:

St.Davids has PLENTY of open rooms/beds, and an average 4 minute ER wait. 

Science 

[quixoft]

Some info a friend compiled...


US cases are staying in a 20K to 25K per day range. It is interesting that greater testing frequency has not led to an increase in cases nationally.



We know the initial hotspots were in the northeast. New York (white), Pennsylvania (blue) and New Jersey (orange) have flattened the curve on cases.



Recent press has been focused on cases increasing in Florida (white), Texas (Blue), and Arizona (orange).



I wish we had reliable, standardized data on hospitalizations, but we don't. It is an important leading indicator, and more useful to monitor to isolate away the effect of testing frequency. I have mentioned previously that Texas' "spike" in hospitalizations is minuscule compared to outbreaks in other hotspots. Below shows per capita of Texas hospitalizations vs. New York. Texas is nowhere near a crisis level on COVID hospitalizations. It would have to increase by multiples to get to concerning levels.



But what about deaths, which is ultimately the most important metric? The trend in deaths is quite encouraging. Below are deaths in US. Back in April, deaths exceeded 2000 per day, but are now below 1,000 and falling.



New York (orange), New Jersey (white) and Pennsylvania (blue) thankfully flattened the death curve.


The trend in deaths has been remarkably stable in Florida (purple), Texas (yellow) and Arizona (blue). And these numbers per day are quite small (in the dozens, literally, per state). These three "hot spots" currently account for about 100 deaths per day, combined.



I think this suggests there has been improvement in the trend on COVID-19's mortality in the US that we all should be excited to see. Treatment has been enhanced as we've learned more about the virus, improving patient outcomes. Hospitals are not overwhelmed which allows better care. I also think we are more intelligent about risk mitigation and how to best protect/isolate the most at risk people, which may help skew the hospitalizations away from the very old/vulnerable.

Yes, death is a lagging indicator on COVID. It will be important to watch the data on deaths in Texas, Florida and Arizona for the next few weeks to see if they hold stable or decline, given the rising cases.

[AustinBike]

Take NY and NJ out of those numbers and you don't see a downward trend, instead we have hit a plateau and aren't making any progress.

 

Plus, look at the Texas number on their own (and even Travis county) and you see that the more local/specific you make the data, the worse it looks. Basically there are 4-5 hotspots in the country and we are living in one of them. Buckle up.

 

[RidingAgain]

Take a look at this Third World country... Small population... But the government put in strick lockdown pretty quickly, and some weeks ago it was ranked #1 with Vietnam for least amount of cases/deaths.

https://georank.org/covid/trinidad-and-tobago/vietnam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Trinidad_and_Tobago

Edited June 15, 2020 by RidingAgain

[TheX]

Imagine that!

 

Coronavirus testing of more than 1,300 people who protested Minnesota’s Twin Cities after the death of George Floyd shows few new positive cases, according to a report.

Health officials across the country have expressed fear the mass protests over the black man's death in police custody that have taken place over the past two weeks could lead to new outbreaks of the virus.

But those fears haven’t been borne out in Minneapolis and St. Paul, as of yet, based on early test results, the St. Paul Pioneer Press reported Saturday.

[notyal]

4 minutes ago, TheX said:

Imagine that!

 

Coronavirus testing of more than 1,300 people who protested Minnesota’s Twin Cities after the death of George Floyd shows few new positive cases, according to a report.

Health officials across the country have expressed fear the mass protests over the black man's death in police custody that have taken place over the past two weeks could lead to new outbreaks of the virus.

But those fears haven’t been borne out in Minneapolis and St. Paul, as of yet, based on early test results, the St. Paul Pioneer Press reported Saturday.

It will be interesting to compare to the upcoming Trump rally attendees. One group largely wearing masks, and the other not so much.

[AustinBike]

Just now, notyal said:

It will be interesting to compare to the upcoming Trump rally attendees. One group largely wearing masks, and the other not so much.

Let's make it even more differentiated. One group outdoor with masks, the other group indoor without masks. I think this is really the going to be an interesting test. Last I heard the campaign was going to make masks and hand sanitizer available at the event. All for a hoax, right?

[notyal]

Let's make it even more differentiated. One group outdoor with masks, the other group indoor without masks. I think this is really the going to be an interesting test. Last I heard the campaign was going to make masks and hand sanitizer available at the event. All for a hoax, right?

And the waiver they have to sign.