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Shimano is late to the drivetrain party but making an impression


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I've never run it myself, but I have installed SX & NX on bikes and I wasn't really impressed.  The tolerances were very poor and the shifting was very finicky.  I can't say that I was impressed.  It seemed to me like it was just a CHEAP way to get 12 spd and my thoughts were that money would have been better spent on better 11 spd  (or 10) stuff.  Consider me intrigued with this Shimano release.

Cheers,
CJB

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Direct mount mountain bike calipers are coming. Because we need that.

The direct mount chainring interface is the same as the XTR, XT, and SLX 12 speed group if I read correctly. So, it's not "one more" unless you weren't aware of Shimano’s existing direct mount standard.

The crazy thing to me is that they are making 2x12 possible. The adventure biking/touring set is gonna love that! Might finally pull them from their 3x9 drivetrains...except that Shimano also updated Alivio today as well!

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8 minutes ago, Teamsloan said:

The crazy thing to me is that they are making 2x12 possible. The adventure biking/touring set is gonna love that! Might finally pull them from their 3x9 drivetrains...except that Shimano also updated Alivio today as well!

I missed putting that tid-bit together.  Yunno, I was a little late to the 1x party because I really enjoyed the range of the 2x (and even 3 prior).  Combine that with the fact that I'm slowly sourcing a build for a bike packing rig and this just got pretty interesting.  I wonder if I could run 2 NW chainrings on a double setup (no front D) and then just manually chain it over when needed??  

-CJB

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Other than chainline issues at the extremes of the cassette causing a sort of cross-chain issue, I don't see why that couldn't work as long as you were running a long cage rear D. Without knowing, I'd be curious about how much redundancy there would be in the ratios. It might not be so much of a range advantage, but finding an optimal cadence with a heavy load sort of advantage.

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5 minutes ago, Teamsloan said:

Other than chainline issues at the extremes of the cassette causing a sort of cross-chain issue, I don't see why that couldn't work as long as you were running a long cage rear D. Without knowing, I'd be curious about how much redundancy there would be in the ratios. It might not be so much of a range advantage, but finding an optimal cadence with a heavy load sort of advantage.

Yeah, I'd have to think through it a little more clearly.  In my mind, I might have it set up like a normal 1x...but then have that SUPER-granny for bike packing when loaded-up for ongoing CO climbs.  Hmmmm...same might be able to be done for say....a Leadville 100 bike?  I've never done L100 but, I personally, would like to have a broader range without creating bigger steps between gears.  Thus you could have an entire 'bail-out' gear range for going up.  It doesn't have have to be dramatic either...a 28/32 up front may be enough?  Just rambling....

-CJB

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11 hours ago, Teamsloan said:

The adventure biking/touring set is gonna love that! Might finally pull them from their 3x9 drivetrains...

I'm sticking with my 3x9 till it explodes, but I'm not that into adventure either. /s

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4 hours ago, Teamsloan said:

Other than chainline issues at the extremes of the cassette causing a sort of cross-chain issue, I don't see why that couldn't work as long as you were running a long cage rear D. Without knowing, I'd be curious about how much redundancy there would be in the ratios. It might not be so much of a range advantage, but finding an optimal cadence with a heavy load sort of advantage.

I would likewise encourage people to do the math. I went from 3X to 2X when I realized I had ~80% overlap and never used 10% of the unique configs (think 11T on the cassette). Then, going from 2X to 1X made even more sense, just swap cassettes and rings to maximize your coverage. I don't even use the 50T on my cassette, been thinking about a slightly larger front ring because when I drop to the 50T I just spin.

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I love my 50T. If I can't pedal the bike in the 50T, then it means I'm about to fall backwards or I'm just worn out (the more likely event). I've been pretty pleased with how steep I can go on the Ripmo with the Eagle ring. I'm not nearly as fit as you are though.

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I care as much about the steps between my cogs, as I do about the overall range.  I'm running 1x11 spd and find it very adequate, but I'd LOVE to move up to 12 spd if they'd add a cog 'in middle' for me, instead of giving me 'more range'.  I understand that 2x & 3x have a ton of overlap.  But I wasn't running them for the simplest number of gears, but rather the quality cog/shifting steps between each gear change.....while in each given front gear range.  

Later,
CJB

 

 

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It’s from that blinged out Revel Rascal build that’s all over the bike journalism sites.

…and a 9t cog? Only E-thirteen makes that. Better off with a bigger chain ring. Fun discussion on reddit about this.



My favorite comment, “9 teeth is a polygon not a circle. Even 11 sucks really.”


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in my BMX days, the "perfect" gear combo for older bikes at 44/16 on 20" wheels. better hub designs allowed us to drop the 16t freewheel in favor of smaller freewheels on metric-thread hubs down to 13t to be used with a 36t front. then "cassette" hubs with machined one-piece drivers allowed 33/12, 30/11, 28/10, 25/9, and even 22/8. Eight teeth! what BMX riders quickly learned was that a driver that forces all of your pedaling into the hub using four teeth at a time feels like crap and wears everything out quickly. I think BMX bikes (although not race bikes, that's a different story) settled on 9t drivers and a few with 10t.

that's not directly applicable to mountain bikes, but the tiny cog craze has a limit. people are going to shell out for these huge range cassettes and realize how quickly a 9t or 10t cog wears out and regret it. do they well the smaller cogs separately?

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I used to run a 1x9 and had plenty of range for Austin. Initially there was a 32 in the back and then I got all crazy with a 36T. Now I have a 1x12 and the 50T is too big, thinking about going bigger on the front to make that big one in the back usable. 

If you look at the typical rider, they probably spend 80-90% of their time in 3-4 different tightly grouped ratios. I guy from SA that some of us ride with occasionally uses a 1x8 and complains that he has more gears than he needs. If you are trying to get to a 9T on the front I would contend that you are riding too many streets and not enough trail 😉

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I think dowhillers are looking for more gear. I don't know enough about the discipline, but I imagine there's a limit to how large a ring you want to put on the front, and you need a lot of speed to hit big jumps. most of us around here don't have any real use for that high range.

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40 minutes ago, mack_turtle said:

I think dowhillers are looking for more gear. I don't know enough about the discipline, but I imagine there's a limit to how large a ring you want to put on the front, and you need a lot of speed to hit big jumps. most of us around here don't have any real use for that high range.

I'm not sure if they need more gears for speed... Maybe just less brakes! 😂

 

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2 hours ago, ATXZJ said:

Yes, they are running out of gear. My buddy has a 29er with 11-50 cassette & 32t and is spinning out in the 11t but doesn't want a bigger ring up front.

This is not an issue for us here in flatlandia

Since I've gone 1x... First with a 32t and now with a 30t, I've been easily spinning out on flat, easy trail. And on SATN trails, except for the short sections of uphill, I find myself only using maybe three high gears most of the time. It's been making me think about going back to a 2x... But then do I really want the possibility of more speed, especially given the crowds on the trails.

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13 hours ago, Teamsloan said:

It’s from that blinged out Revel Rascal build that’s all over the bike journalism sites.

…and a 9t cog? Only E-thirteen makes that. Better off with a bigger chain ring. Fun discussion on reddit about this.

 


My favorite comment, “9 teeth is a polygon not a circle. Even 11 sucks really.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

Yes, I think I should prolly clarify my search for the 'right ratios' in that what I currently have works very fine for around here.  But for me, all of this convo got started around bikepacking talk (and in my mind my desire to do Leadville 100 someday).  Thus I'd like to find a possible option that can give me what I'm looking for in those (different) scenarios....range and quality steps in between.  Around here locally, if I can get by in the EB with my gearing then its working for me.

Later,
CJB

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