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"...so get out of my way as I go pro this downhill..."


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Culture... This culture... That culture... New culture... Old culture...

I came across this article when Googling "...overly sensitive mountain bikers...". Seriously. That's what I was doing.

Anywho... The title caught my attention so I read the article and thought "Ehhh". But then I did what I normally do... I went to the comments section, and "BAM"... Good stuff.

Here's the article... And make sure to read the comments...

https://www.adventure-journal.com/2018/05/culture-mountain-biking-gone-astray/

And again...

Full disclosure... This is just, in my opinion, an interesting article related to mountain biking. I didn't write it... I simply read it and though I'd share it with the members of this forum. Read it and keep your thoughts to yourself. Or read it and share your thoughts. Hope that helps.

Oh yes... For those anal about age of stuff... This article was published on 5/17/2018... Judge accordingly.

Edited by RidingAgain
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Okay... So I'll kick things of with my thoughts.

Yeh, the culture has changed. Shoot, I saw it change in just a couple of years down in Miami, Florida, when my local haunt, Oleta State Park, went from maybe five cars with bike racks on weekend days, to may fifty, within maybe five years of our building the first part of the trail. In the early days, it was all about just riding, but then things seem to become all about riding with some kind of attitude.

I used to party hard on Friday nights. But one Saturday morning I was meeting a few other riders for an 8 a.m. ride. I got up and made the ride, but did I feel like shit. I got home and later thought to myself this isn't going to work. Long story short, I gave up Friday night partying for Saturday morning riding. It wasn't a big thing... Just a simple decision, and that was that.

And the same thing happened when I first got into mountain biking... I bought a bike to ride for health reasons, but didn't like riding on roads or sidewalks. Went to the closest park to me and found a couple other riders riding on the few hiking and jeep trails that were in the park. We quickly got to thinking with permission we could build more mtb specific trails, and we did... About seven miles of mtb-specific trails. Today there's upwards of 15 miles I've read. But it never seemed to cross our minds that there was any "culture" attached to what we were doing. Not saying a culture didn't exist — I read all the magazine back then, and I surfed for some years... I get it — but it wasn't really a thing for us. We wanted to mtb, we needed trail, we met to build trail and ride together, and then went our separate ways. And that was about the size of it.

But then I started going up to Markham Park... The Mecca of the South Florida mtb scene, and central to the South Florida Race Series... And things were definitely different. But again, I was there to ride/race, and that was it.

Funny thing... I bought my first pair of spandex shorts at Walmart... Branded "LeMond"... As in Greg Lemond. I got a LeMond riding jersey too. And I think I still have both.

My first mtb bike was a Caloi, a Brazilian bicycle company found back in the late 1800s. Cracked the seat tube and got it replaced with a Scott Racing steel frame — the same one Steve Larsen rode in early '90s NORBA events. Saw an ad of him racing and thought I could do it too.

That's kind of how it's been for me... I like to ride, so I ride.

Edited by RidingAgain
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Upon completing the story the thing that came to mind was that of missionaries in spandex robes bringing the gospel of the Church of the Knobby Tire to the unwashed masses.

 

Then, I started reading the comments, and the whiny-assed, self-centered downhiller writes about how they think somehow in their perfect world everyone would always just get out of their way. That all uphill riders should be forced via a twisted version of trail etiquette that caters to those in a position to do the most harm to be sure to get out of their way, or else! 

Clearly, the people championing this in those comments are either trolls, or, they simply aren't "big picture" thinkers by any stretch of the imagination. The mere aspect of physics involved, alone, if grasped by these riders should be enough for anyone, with what used to be basic education, to understand the safety aspect of the downhill rider being the one required to yield. If the downhill rider is unable to yield on a public two-way trail they are riding too fast for the conditions. Pure and simple. Easy to grasp, once Ego is removed from the thought process.

Save that shit for places that cater to providing that kind of riding, unencumbered by trail users moving in the opposite direction. Instead, use the public two-way riding environment to take advantage of the opportunity to practice braking, slowing, stopping, while sharing the public trails with other users.

Such riders who rang in supporting this bozo are the very people the author was writing about who are taking the heart and soul from the mountain biking community.

It isn't all about YOU, it is about US.

May the blessed Knobby Tire redeem the body and soul of these blasphemers to be re-purposed as trail armoring, or maybe as a rolling grade dip(shit),

Fool Disclosure: I like going downhill as much as the next guy, and, I'm very likely when riding uphill to clear the line and wave them through when I see someone enjoying themselves coming down. I can hope that someone else will do the same for me, but I would never demand it. We are all ambassadors, all trail users, and are all riders sharing the time and space we find to play.

Edited by Ridenfool
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2 hours ago, RidingAgain said:

Okay... So I'll kick things of with my thoughts.

Yeh, the culture has changed. Shoot, I saw it change in just a couple of years down in Miami, Florida, when my local haunt, Oleta State Park, went from maybe five cars with bike racks on weekend days, to may fifty, within maybe five years of our building the first part of the trail. 

But then I started going up to Markham Park... The Mecca of the South Florida mtb scene, and central to the South Florida Race Series... And things were definitely different. But again, I was there to ride/race, and that was it.

 

When were you in Miami?  I was around Lauderdale from 99-05 rode Markham and Oleta some, Quiet Waters alot.

 

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3 hours ago, kpomtb said:

When were you in Miami?  I was around Lauderdale from 99-05 rode Markham and Oleta some, Quiet Waters alot.

 

 

'95-'05... Started riding in '95 when I live in North Miami (near Oleta State Park). Got married and moved down south of Kendal, so getting up north where the trails were was difficult and I cut back on my riding for a few years, and picked up golf again. Started riding again when I came to live in Austin.

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shortly after I got married at the tender age of 22, I noticed that my priorities shifted. I was big into the punk/ hardcore music scene in Indianapolis. all my college friends were in bands and not a week passed when I was not at some show any night of the week sweating my face off in a mosh pit. I look back on that fondly, but after I moved to San Antonio and got married, I had little interest for involvement in "youth culture." I had a social life, but it quickly became smaller. I went to one punk show in my seven years in San Antonio (and that was to see Gorilla Biscuits, and "old school" band), instead of the constant stream of shows I can't count in high school and college.

I rode BMX exclusively and despite riding quite a lot (SA has a great BMX scene and endless fun ditches to ride), I never really became a part of that culture. I was always on the outside. that's part of the reason I lost interest in it and started mountain biking- I could do that alone and have a lot more fun, I was not trying to prove anything to anyone, and it was generally a more mature crowd when I did do anything social on a mountain bike.

I think mountain biking is become more popular among a younger (read: more youthful) crowd, and what the author describes is evidence of that. that's is a good thing and a bad one. it's bringing new energy, a lust for experience that most of the old farts (I'll round 40 in a few quick years) don't have. think of what you were like when you were 15-25 years old. many of us were frenetic balls of energy that had to constantly move to keep from dying of boredom. that's the new breed of mountain bikers- not because they are bad people, but because they are young, just like all of us were at one time. with that comes loud shitty music, flat-billed hats, cans of Redbull spilling out of dually trucks, enduro bro brapping culture that we see today in some places. I predict that most of them will chill out shortly and then they'll be the ones complaining about the whippersnappers behind them and whatever cultural milieu it represents. it's a cycle. 

I don't know if we see as much of that in Austin though. I don't think the terrain here is conducive to "shredding" the way bros see it on Pinkbike videos, so it might be delayed at least. Can anyone chime in about what they see when they leave the state, say ColoRADo, like the cool kids spell it?

Edited by mack_turtle
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41 minutes ago, mack_turtle said:

 

that's the new breed of mountain bikers- not because they are bad people, but because they are young, just like all of us were at one time. with that comes loud shitty music, flat-billed hats, cans of Redbull spilling out of dually trucks, enduro bro brapping culture that we see today in some places. I predict that most of them will chill out shortly and then they'll be the ones complaining about the e-bikes whippersnappers behind them and whatever cultural milieu it represents. it's a cycle. 

 

Fixed it. 🙂

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15 hours ago, RidingAgain said:

'95-'05... Started riding in '95 when I live in North Miami (near Oleta State Park). Got married and moved down south of Kendal, so getting up north where the trails were was difficult and I cut back on my riding for a few years, and picked up golf again. Started riding again when I came to live in Austin.

Ever run into Kristin and Ryan or Nixon?

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6 hours ago, kpomtb said:

Ever run into Kristin and Ryan or Nixon?

Honestly couldn't say. I've long forgotten the names of the folks I worked with building the original trail at Oleta. I remember a Mike who I met when he worked at a bike shop in north Miami. Can't remember his last name. When that shop closed down he went to work for Jamis (the bike manufacturer). Mike used to ride mtb, and we went on a ride trip up to Ocala once. And then there was Andre, who also worked at the same shop as Mike, but moved to Bike Tech. He's Brazilian, but didn't ride. Then there was a fella that owned a bike shop up near Markham Park. He was who put on the South Florida race series (six+ races over a period of some months). That was the series I got my highest finish in — third overall in the series.  The there was a fella who had a bike shop on A1A, up in north Miami Beach area. He was a bit of an odd character. Loved iguanas. He actually was the first to come up with an iguana design for a riding shirt that I was aware of)... Which Primal Wear stole from him. He actually sponsored a team and came up with the design as a team jersey. He sent the design to Primal Wear to get them custom made, and Primal Wear asked him if they could do a few for themselves, which being the kind of fella he was, he said sure to. Some months later he saw his shirt in their catalog. And I know this because I was there helping him with the graphic work when he first came up with the design concept. He was the only person I knew that rode an Ibis Szazbo URT full suspension bike, full mud guard kit, and tall socks. He was a funny fella. No idea what happened to him. Just kind of disappeared from the scene as far as I knew. Now I'm talking about '95-'97 period. After that I didn't ride with anyone on the odd occasion I got to ride.

This is the shirt that fella designed... I still have one.

Radtrikot-Iguana-von-Primalwear-Gr-XL.jpg

Edited by RidingAgain
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I am in agreement with Mack_turtle in that the current culture is a reflection of the age of riders becoming younger. I am just shy of 30 and started mountain biking when I was 13 with my dad. At the time I can not remember seeing many younger individuals on the trail nor did any of my high school buddies partake in MTB. It was not until later in college and after graduating did any of those same friends begin to take up the sport. Now when I go out the number of teens on a bike is huge. When I started biking it was a matter of going as fast as I could and showing off to anyone I could find on the trail. If strava were around I would have been the biggest stravatard around (luckily it was not). Now though you will find me more often than not just getting out on the trails for a solo ride on my single speed and just enjoying the ride.

Yes the younger riders can be bothersome, but they grow up and become active members of the biking community. They will learn the value of trail work and etiquette. We just need to be patient and help them learn, but ultimately more riders (even young whipper snappers) will result in a thriving bike scene for all.

But then there are e-bikers....I saw 2 of these guys out on brushy last night and it was all I could do not shove a stick in their spokes.

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3 minutes ago, mack_turtle said:

FFS, are e-mtbs allowed on Brushy Creek? What would it take to get authorities on board with banning e-mtbs on every trail? Sorry BSS, I know you want to sell those Specialized motorbikes, but NO!

I cant imagine they are allowed. I wish shops would stop selling them to all these guys knowing there is nowhere to ride them. Just tell them to learn how to pedal a bike...they will get rid of their gut that is prohibiting them from properly riding a bike in the first place.

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10 minutes ago, mack_turtle said:

FFS, are e-mtbs allowed on Brushy Creek? What would it take to get authorities on board with banning e-mtbs on every trail? Sorry BSS, I know you want to sell those Specialized motorbikes, but NO!

I'd be really interested to know the demographic of folks buying e-bikes. Seems like way too much money to be spending on something for our local trails here. While I'd love to take one for a test spin at City Park just to see how much easier it makes those climbs, I'd never consider buying one. Brushy is the last place I expected to see them appear given that they would really be more of a disadvantage than advantage there I think. For me they would definitely take the fun out of the sport, but GBMN and Sam Pilgrim are making them seem cool to the masses. I saw that Intense just introduced their first e-bike, which I had never expected them to do.   

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1 minute ago, throet said:

GBMN and Sam Pilgrim are making them seem cool

Which is expected considering they are getting paid to do so. Plus even the guys repping them look like douche bags. I get that it is supposed to be gimmicky, but this guys attitude is exactly the person I would expect on one of these things just with a bigger gut...

 

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On 10/4/2018 at 12:27 AM, RidingAgain said:

Honestly couldn't say. I've long forgotten the names of the folks I worked with building the original trail at Oleta. I remember a Mike who I met when he worked at a bike shop in north Miami. Can't remember his last name. When that shop closed down he went to work for Jamis (the bike manufacturer). Mike used to ride mtb, and we went on a ride trip up to Ocala once. And then there was Andre, who also worked at the same shop as Mike, but moved to Bike Tech. He's Brazilian, but didn't ride. Then there was a fella that owned a bike shop up near Markham Park. He was who put on the South Florida race series (six+ races over a period of some months). That was the series I got my highest finish in — third overall in the series.  The there was a fella who had a bike shop on A1A, up in north Miami Beach area. He was a bit of an odd character. Loved iguanas. He actually was the first to come up with an iguana design for a riding shirt that I was aware of)... Which Primal Wear stole from him. He actually sponsored a team and came up with the design as a team jersey. He sent the design to Primal Wear to get them custom made, and Primal Wear asked him if they could do a few for themselves, which being the kind of fella he was, he said sure to. Some months later he saw his shirt in their catalog. And I know this because I was there helping him with the graphic work when he first came up with the design concept. He was the only person I knew that rode an Ibis Szazbo URT full suspension bike, full mud guard kit, and tall socks. He was a funny fella. No idea what happened to him. Just kind of disappeared from the scene as far as I knew. Now I'm talking about '95-'97 period. After that I didn't ride with anyone on the odd occasion I got to ride.

This is the shirt that fella designed... I still have one.

Radtrikot-Iguana-von-Primalwear-Gr-XL.jpg

Kristin and Ryan developed the trail at Quiet Waters and went on to work as an IMBA trail care crew.   Kristin is Kristin Butcher that writes for Bike Magazine.   Nixon worked summer camps in the Carolinas or somewhere in the summer then worked shops in FL in the winter, raced for Cannondale for awhile.

Edited by kpomtb
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On 10/5/2018 at 12:12 PM, throet said:

I'd be really interested to know the demographic of folks buying e-bikes. Seems like way too much money to be spending on something for our local trails here. 

Why is that any different than people paying $6K for a regular bike for the same trails?

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4 minutes ago, TheX said:

Why is that any different than people paying $6K for a regular bike for the same trails?

Is that what a decent eBike runs? Guess I was thinking they were higher. Anyway, I still think the penalty of the added weight still outweighs any pedal-assist benefits around here. Said differently, I'd rather have a $6K carbon bike with nice kit than a clunky eBike any day!   

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