Can bike shops pay the bills just off service?

[4fun]

I may be wrong, but I’m guessing most bike shops  probably had record sales numbers the last few months despite the supply chain interruptions. Also most should have qualified for the small business loan which paid all their employees for 8 weeks even though the likely made a profit. Likely a wind fall for the owners! 

[AustinBike]

I have a friend in Virgina that I grew up with and we always rode bikes everywhere as kids, even did a century at 16. He never really rode after college.

Decided to get back in. I was helping him with a bike and recommended a Giant (best bang for the buck.) Backordered until January. Opted for a Trek and still has to wait about 3-4 weeks. He rides a medium, shops would normally have plenty of stock on hand. And my guess is everything is selling for list these days.

[ATXZJ]

Angela Lansbury meme for the win!

[AustinBike]

10 hours ago, Barry said:

From my personal experience 15 years ago, and with my observations with other's bikes in the last couple of years, Trek/Garry Fisher has had one of the slowest warranty responses in the industry. 

But they have lifetime warranty.

If you want to see slow, RMA a Knolly chain stay some time.

[Big_papa_nuts]

11 hours ago, Barry said:

From my personal experience 15 years ago, and with my observations with other's bikes in the last couple of years, Trek/Garry Fisher has had one of the slowest warranty responses in the industry. 

VERY shop dependant. I worked in a Trek shop for years and find their warranty process one of the best. We would usually have a resolution within a week if we were on top of things.

[Big_papa_nuts]

11 hours ago, Barry said:

From my personal experience 15 years ago, and with my observations with other's bikes in the last couple of years, Trek/Garry Fisher has had one of the slowest warranty responses in the industry. 

Double post.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Big_papa_nuts

[Taco Man]

On 7/8/2020 at 7:09 AM, AustinBike said:

While BSS may not be everyone's favorite, they do hold a spot in the overall bike ecosystem here in Austin. 

BSS isnt really convenient for me so I only go there for one reason.  They have exclusive access to the Specialized BG Gloves in town.

I actually drive past the BSS in Bee Cave to go to Southwest Cycle Sport when I need service.  Its an owner operated shop, I get along with them so they get my business.  I bought my last bike from them in September but the times I have been over there since COVID its packed with repair work.   So not only are new bikes hard to come by, but parts are starting to become difficult as well.  Southwest Cycle told me he had sold more 26" in May then he had sold in all of 2019.  I know for the last two months hes been wrenching 7 days a week 12+ hours a day to keep up with demand.

So the question- can they make it?  If every day was like it is now, non stop repair work but eventually all the bikes will get fixed, people will go back to not riding them as much so the repair business will die down.  Hopefully Bike MFGs will be able to catch up to demand as we transition back to normal or I fear there will be no bikes to sell and no bikes to repair and then theyll really be hurting.

[mack_turtle]

On 7/8/2020 at 8:41 PM, Big_papa_nuts said:

VERY shop dependant. I worked in a Trek shop for years and find their warranty process one of the best. We would usually have a resolution within a week if we were on top of things.

I worked in two different Trek shops back to back. One would take in a warranty and it would sit for over a month until the Trek rep happened to stop by and the owner remembered to tell him about it. A few months later, I worked at another shop where the same rep stopped in once a week and handled warranties within a few days. Even better, the secondary shop didn't wait for a manufacturer to fix a problem if we could help it. We'd fix the customer's bike on the spot with whatever means necessary, then try to get the part replaced or get credit for the store based on our loss. the difference was that most customers at the first store waited up to a month to even hear if their warranty claim would be handled, and the latter store got most bikes back in the customer's hands in less than 24 hours.

 

for example, a lady came in with her one week-old Trek hardtail that had a faulty Rockshox fork air spring. Rather than mail the fork back to SRAM to deal with it, I took a fork off an identical bike from our sales floor and put it on her bike. It took us a week or two to get the replacement fork on the bike from our stock, but the customer's bike was handled and ready to go in an hour. (she ignored multiple voicemail messages that I left her and called back angry several weeks later, but that's on her.)

Edited July 10, 2020 by mack_turtle

[quixoft]

On 7/7/2020 at 2:47 PM, RedRider3141 said:

No Experience in Bike Shops but I know in Automotive, Motorcycle and Commercial Truck Profits from Service is always a big part of their overall income. During "down times" it usually becomes a much bigger part of the pie. For example, during the 2008 downturn the average age of a Commercial Truck (think 18 wheeler/long haul truck) went from 3-5 years to 6-8 years. This means alot more maintenance on truck that probably already had 300,000 miles on it by year 3 or 4. However, it's lower capital investment by the fleets. I think the volume of cobweb filled, dept.store 26rs coming out of the woodworks speak for themselves. 

Automotive shops are scams for a whole lot of services. For example, I had an old Chevy pickup that needed brake pads and rotors all around. Three different shops all quoted me above $1000 for all four sets of pads and rotors to be install. I bought the stuff myself for $220 and had them installed in two hours. 

I guarantee their materials cost would be less than mine. They upcharge the shit out of basic stuff people can do themselves very easily. I guess people are just scared of brakes but in reality they are very simple.

Edited July 10, 2020 by quixoft

[mack_turtle]

1 hour ago, quixoft said:

Automotive shops are scams for a whole lot of services. For example, I had an old Chevy pickup that needed brake pads and rotors all around. Three different shops all quoted me above $1000 for all four sets of pads and rotors to be install. I bought the stuff myself for $220 and had them installed in two hours. 

I guarantee their materials cost would be less than mine. They upcharge the shit out of basic stuff people can do themselves very easily. I guess people are just scared of brakes but in reality they are very simple.

you could totally say the same thing about bicycle shops. does that make it a "scam" that the shop charges customers to do things that they are too afraid to do? maybe, maybe not. I can't tell you how many times I tried to sell an inner tube to a customer in the bike shop and told them, "you can replace it yourself for $8." then they would happily pay the shop $20 instead because they were afraid to change a tube. that was about half of what I did in shops: lube chains and replace tubes, and people would pay for it.

[Big_papa_nuts]

7 hours ago, quixoft said:

Automotive shops are scams for a whole lot of services. For example, I had an old Chevy pickup that needed brake pads and rotors all around. Three different shops all quoted me above $1000 for all four sets of pads and rotors to be install. I bought the stuff myself for $220 and had them installed in two hours. 

I guarantee their materials cost would be less than mine. They upcharge the shit out of basic stuff people can do themselves very easily. I guess people are just scared of brakes but in reality they are very simple.

Have you ever been to a restaurant?

[AustinBike]

Yeah, I'd say auto shops are *generally* not scams. You can always do ANYTHING yourself cheaper, from cooking a steak to putting on a new roof, but that does not mean something is a scam. There is overhead in a business and you are paying for expertise.

In the case of brakes for a car, I could pay the $220 and do it myself. It would probably take me 10 hours and then I would spend the next two years wondering whether I did it right. I'd assume that if I did it wrong I wouldn't realize it in a parking lot but instead when some idiot cuts me off and I have to slam the brakes on.

I do a lot fo tech work for people, generally free, but they are willing to pay me hundreds of dollars to fix things they can't because I have the expertise and they don't.

When I take my car to the shop I am paying to have it done fast, right, by someone that has done that same thing hundreds of times and gets it right every time. I have never been scammed by an auto shop. I did have one put water in my radiator instead of coolant, but they eventually refunded that service.

Same with bike shops. I do 90% of my own work, but when I do take it to the shop I gladly pay for their expertise and know it will be done right.

[RegisteredUser]

17 hours ago, quixoft said:

Automotive shops are scams for a whole lot of services. For example, I had an old Chevy pickup that needed brake pads and rotors all around. Three different shops all quoted me above $1000 for all four sets of pads and rotors to be install. I bought the stuff myself for $220 and had them installed in two hours. 

I guarantee their materials cost would be less than mine. They upcharge the shit out of basic stuff people can do themselves very easily. I guess people are just scared of brakes but in reality they are very simple.

Before calling automotive shops scams compare vehicle brake pads to bike brake pads or other parts.

[mack_turtle]

I've had an auto shop actually try to actually scam me and I've seen a few instances of bike shops that do sketchy stuff (one in San Antonio was famous for it). But mostly, just like any other service, you get what you pay for.

Edited July 11, 2020 by mack_turtle

[Big_papa_nuts]

1 hour ago, AustinBike said:

 when I do take it to the shop I gladly pay for their expertise and know it will be done right.

One of the major problems with shops, car, bike, or otherwise, is that, for the most part, their is no guarantee that the work is done correctly. Their is no mandatory certifications, no governing body, and worst of all no customer demand. 

I have literally watched a customer tell a "mechanic" how to do a job while they were doing it, then pay the shop for the work.

[AustinBike]

When I use BSS I request a specific person to work on the bike. Can't be 100% sure that they actually do, but I have never had an issue with a bike where I have specified who I want to work on it.

[crazyt]

13 hours ago, Big_papa_nuts said:

Have you ever been to a restaurant?

burger restaurants are a total scam. I can buy awesome wagyu beef for $6/pound and make a 1/4 lb burger that is so much better. It only takes like 8 minutes to make a burger that would cost like $15 instead of $2.

[crazyt]

3 hours ago, AustinBike said:

Yeah, I'd say auto shops are *generally* not scams. You can always do ANYTHING yourself cheaper, from cooking a steak to putting on a new roof, but that does not mean something is a scam. There is overhead in a business and you are paying for expertise.

In the case of brakes for a car, I could pay the $220 and do it myself. It would probably take me 10 hours and then I would spend the next two years wondering whether I did it right. I'd assume that if I did it wrong I wouldn't realize it in a parking lot but instead when some idiot cuts me off and I have to slam the brakes on.

I do a lot fo tech work for people, generally free, but they are willing to pay me hundreds of dollars to fix things they can't because I have the expertise and they don't.

When I take my car to the shop I am paying to have it done fast, right, by someone that has done that same thing hundreds of times and gets it right every time. I have never been scammed by an auto shop. I did have one put water in my radiator instead of coolant, but they eventually refunded that service.

Same with bike shops. I do 90% of my own work, but when I do take it to the shop I gladly pay for their expertise and know it will be done right.

I do everything except press headsets and bottom brackets. Ill gladly pay $20 for the 5 minutes it takes to press a headset because I dont want to destroy my 3K carbon frame.

[notyal]

1 hour ago, AustinBike said:

When I use BSS I request a specific person to work on the bike. Can't be 100% sure that they actually do, but I have never had an issue with a bike where I have specified who I want to work on it.

Definitely. It's more about who is working on your bike than where they work. BSS has some damn good mechanics if you know them. 

[RedRider3141]

I think where Automotive or bike shops become a scam is not when they charge you for something that you probably can do yourself but when they "diagnose" some thing to drum up business.

I've noticed that users have a much higher opinion of LBS on bicycle forums vs car/truck/motorcycle forums where they dealers are called "stealerships".

Long winded example from years ago where I am obviously still slighted... I had a Nissan Dealer in a rather affluent area diagnose my '01 pathfinder with a Check Engine Light. I do all my own maintenance and many repairs but I was having trouble tracking down a specific code that could have been 6 different things. I figured the dealer could use their proprietary scan tool to get more than the P Code and tell me the issue. They came back with a $6K repair estimate on a 14 year old car with a 150K miles. Their claim: Engine Sludge was causing issues in the valve train. Their solution: replace the entire upper half of the engine. When I pointed out that a brand new engine usually runs $5-6K and that after their work I'd sill have a bottom end with 150K miles on it the repair advisor just shrugged and said that most people just have the repair done or buy a new car. I ended up going home, looking in the valve cap and seeing a perfectly clean engine with no evidence of sludge so I did one more diagnosis myself based on some internet advice and replaced a $40 sensor in <5min. 60K miles later I've had no issues. The great thing was on the repair estimate none of it should the sensor replacement, just everything around it.

[notyal]

24 minutes ago, RedRider3141 said:

I think where Automotive or bike shops become a scam is not when they charge you for something that you probably can do yourself but when they "diagnose" some thing to drum up business.

I've noticed that users have a much higher opinion of LBS on bicycle forums vs car/truck/motorcycle forums where they dealers are called "stealerships".

Long winded example from years ago where I am obviously still slighted... I had a Nissan Dealer in a rather affluent area diagnose my '01 pathfinder with a Check Engine Light. I do all my own maintenance and many repairs but I was having trouble tracking down a specific code that could have been 6 different things. I figured the dealer could use their proprietary scan tool to get more than the P Code and tell me the issue. They came back with a $6K repair estimate on a 14 year old car with a 150K miles. Their claim: Engine Sludge was causing issues in the valve train. Their solution: replace the entire upper half of the engine. When I pointed out that a brand new engine usually runs $5-6K and that after their work I'd sill have a bottom end with 150K miles on it the repair advisor just shrugged and said that most people just have the repair done or buy a new car. I ended up going home, looking in the valve cap and seeing a perfectly clean engine with no evidence of sludge so I did one more diagnosis myself based on some internet advice and replaced a $40 sensor in <5min. 60K miles later I've had no issues. The great thing was on the repair estimate none of it should the sensor replacement, just everything around it.

Dealerships are the worst. I once had to argue with a (what do you call the person who checks you in?) that my wife's hybrid pathfinder needed an oil change. She claimed that because it was a hybrid, it did not need oil changes, like ever. I asked for someone else to help me. Funny thing, after a year or two of owning that car, we moved and started going to a closer dealership where they told me it looked like the oil had never been changed. 

(We got a maintenance package with the car so oil changes were included for the first couple years. I stopped getting oil changes at the dealership as soon as it ran out.)

[GFisher]

7 hours ago, AustinBike said:

Yeah, I'd say auto shops are *generally* not scams. You can always do ANYTHING yourself cheaper, from cooking a steak to putting on a new roof, but that does not mean something is a scam. There is overhead in a business and you are paying for expertise.

This. I recently bought a new kitchen sink/faucet combo. I got an estimate from a very highly rated plumber. $500 for the install and 2 new shut off vales and lines, which was probably high. Recent reviews and messaging from the company indicated they were taking COVID seriously, which was important to me for someone to be in my kitchen for a few hours. It was the same footprint and a drop in, so I figured it it should be fairly easy, although it was quite a bit deeper. I figured the parts would be a small part of that, and I figured I would need at least 2 trips back to the hardware store and that it would probably end up taking all day and my back would be in knots from working under there. I went back and forth and decided to have it done instead of doing it myself. Even with the parts in the truck he had to make 2 trips to the supply company, and call another associate to help him. The new one had a slightly bigger inner diameter and barely fit the cabinet frame, thus requiring cutting the hole in the counter top bigger with almost no room for error. Of course all the pipes needed to be replaced to fit the new deeper sink and the dishwasher hose was a totally different size. I could hear him cussing every so often, it took him over 4 hours. I was so glad I just sat and worked from home while I had it taken care of. I could have done it cheaper, sure. I would have been pissed had he been in and out in 30 minutes though.

[RedRider3141]

3 minutes ago, GFisher said:

This. I recently bought a new kitchen sink/faucet combo. I got an estimate from a very highly rated plumber. $500 for the install and 2 new shut off vales and lines, which was probably high. Recent reviews and messaging from the company indicated they were taking COVID seriously, which was important to me for someone to be in my kitchen for a few hours. It was the same footprint and a drop in, so I figured it it should be fairly easy, although it was quite a bit deeper. I figured the parts would be a small part of that, and I figured I would need at least 2 trips back to the hardware store and that it would probably end up taking all day and my back would be in knots from working under there. I went back and forth and decided to have it done instead of doing it myself. Even with the parts in the truck he had to make 2 trips to the supply company, and call another associate to help him. The new one had a slightly bigger inner diameter and barely fit the cabinet frame, thus requiring cutting the hole in the counter top bigger with almost no room for error. Of course all the pipes needed to be replaced to fit the new deeper sink and the dishwasher hose was a totally different size. I could hear him cussing every so often, it took him over 4 hours. I was so glad I just sat and worked from home while I had it taken care of. I could have done it cheaper, sure. I would have been pissed had he been in and out in 30 minutes though.

Yeah, the times I've decided to let a plumber handle it was well worth it. 

[AustinBike]

4 hours ago, crazyt said:

I do everything except press headsets and bottom brackets. Ill gladly pay $20 for the 5 minutes it takes to press a headset because I dont want to destroy my 3K carbon frame.

If you ever want to try, I have the press for BBs and I believe it will probably work with headsets as well.

[CBaron]

2 hours ago, RedRider3141 said:

Long winded example from years ago where I am obviously still slighted... I had a Nissan Dealer in a rather affluent area diagnose my '01 pathfinder with a Check Engine Light. I do all my own maintenance and many repairs but I was having trouble tracking down a specific code that could have been 6 different things. I figured the dealer could use their proprietary scan tool to get more than the P Code and tell me the issue. They came back with a $6K repair estimate on a 14 year old car with a 150K miles. Their claim: Engine Sludge was causing issues in the valve train. Their solution: replace the entire upper half of the engine. When I pointed out that a brand new engine usually runs $5-6K and that after their work I'd sill have a bottom end with 150K miles on it the repair advisor just shrugged and said that most people just have the repair done or buy a new car. I ended up going home, looking in the valve cap and seeing a perfectly clean engine with no evidence of sludge so I did one more diagnosis myself based on some internet advice and replaced a $40 sensor in <5min. 60K miles later I've had no issues. The great thing was on the repair estimate none of it should the sensor replacement, just everything around it.

 

Like you, I do a lot of my own maintenance and minor repairs...I've only paid 1x for someone else to do my brakes.  The issue that I have is that when they make a diagnostic mistake, I STILL PAY FOR IT.  If they say X needs to be repaired and then X didn't fix it, then I now have to also pay for the Y (and X) repair!  90% of the time, I've already diagnosed my issue and if I don't do the work myself, I just pay for labor to install the fix.  Quite often, I use YourMechanic.com and have been pretty pleased.

Later,
CJB