Can bike shops pay the bills just off service?

[Big_papa_nuts]

7 hours ago, RedRider3141 said:

I think where Automotive or bike shops become a scam is not when they charge you for something that you probably can do yourself but when they "diagnose" some thing to drum up business.

I've noticed that users have a much higher opinion of LBS on bicycle forums vs car/truck/motorcycle forums where they dealers are called "stealerships".

Long winded example from years ago where I am obviously still slighted... I had a Nissan Dealer in a rather affluent area diagnose my '01 pathfinder with a Check Engine Light. I do all my own maintenance and many repairs but I was having trouble tracking down a specific code that could have been 6 different things. I figured the dealer could use their proprietary scan tool to get more than the P Code and tell me the issue. They came back with a $6K repair estimate on a 14 year old car with a 150K miles. Their claim: Engine Sludge was causing issues in the valve train. Their solution: replace the entire upper half of the engine. When I pointed out that a brand new engine usually runs $5-6K and that after their work I'd sill have a bottom end with 150K miles on it the repair advisor just shrugged and said that most people just have the repair done or buy a new car. I ended up going home, looking in the valve cap and seeing a perfectly clean engine with no evidence of sludge so I did one more diagnosis myself based on some internet advice and replaced a $40 sensor in <5min. 60K miles later I've had no issues. The great thing was on the repair estimate none of it should the sensor replacement, just everything around it.

Diagnosis is the HARDEST part of any mechanic work. Everyone who has tried to track down "bottom bracket noises" can attest. I feel sorry for car mechanics because CARS ARE ONE OF THE MOST COMPLEX THINGS most people will have interaction with. 

In a bike shop the service writer would be the most experienced person in the store, hands down. But try to justify $20+ an hour for a person who fill out paperwork at a bike shop.

[ATXZJ]

Having worked in the auto industry for nearly three decades, I can say some are criminal and others are good. Just like every other type of business.

The market will determine who survives

Edited July 11, 2020 by ATXZJ

[RedRider3141]

32 minutes ago, ATXZJ said:

The market will determine who survives

The problem is that in an affluent area of that Nissan dealer, the shady practices just led to more vehicle sales and blindly happy customers. 

[RedRider3141]

51 minutes ago, Big_papa_nuts said:

Diagnosis is the HARDEST part of any mechanic work.

Agreed, 100% but one of the reasons why people go to the dealer is because they are supposed to be subject matter experts in their own product, Nissan cars used the same basic engine architecture from 94 to current across a wide variety of models. I was able to find my answer on an internet forum post from 5 years previous. 

Bikes are a bit different in this area, branding isn't super specific as to maintenance and repair, at least not to the extent of automotive. It's always been interesting to me how components are brand agnostic for the most part between bike brands. 

[ATXZJ]

And the Nissan dealer example is the way the cookie crumbles until people wise up or there is a better option. Many better options than Nissan IMHO.

In a lower socioeconomic area, a dealers profit comes mainly from the front end (sales, finance etc) because buyers don't have the same buying power as affluent areas. On the other side, buyers have good credit, bank drafts , cash, are educated in their rights.  There, most of the profit comes from fixed (service) because they have the available cash to keep up on maintenance and repairs.

I've worked at and managed both kinds of traditional dealers and they all have their own pitfalls. 

I've also spent a decade at a national chain that pretty much nailed the model, but also wasn't the best value for the consumer.

Edited July 12, 2020 by ATXZJ

[AustinBike]

I have had Infiniti in the past and now have Nissan. Their service is fine, but all I have ever gotten is oil changes. 28K miles, basically only oil. The Infiniti is the high end of the Nissan family and they had great service. There was one incident but they made it right. I'd buy another Nissan in a heartbeat but I am going to give them a fake phone #. Can't stand the way the sales guys try to get me to buy a new car every time I take it in for an oil change.

[ATXZJ]

1 hour ago, AustinBike said:

 Can't stand the way the sales guys try to get me to buy a new car every time I take it in for an oil change.

All dealers do this. In fact manufacturers finance will contact you once you have enough positive equity to trade.

I've sat in many F&I offices and watched customers sign paperwork and never once ask a question or pull out a calculator. Worked at a Ford dealer long ago that was a real chopshop. Ford finance put cameras in the finance offices because there were so many complaints. Low socioeconomic area and again, not one question or calculator.

What I saw go on in the industry pre 911, was the freaking wild west.

Edited July 12, 2020 by ATXZJ

[Sluggo]

...

Edited July 12, 2020 by Sluggo

[Sluggo]

... high ...

Edited July 12, 2020 by Sluggo

[AustinBike]

13 hours ago, ATXZJ said:

All dealers do this. In fact manufacturers finance will contact you once you have enough positive equity to trade.

I've sat in many F&I offices and watched customers sign paperwork and never once ask a question or pull out a calculator. Worked at a Ford dealer long ago that was a real chopshop. Ford finance put cameras in the finance offices because there were so many complaints. Low socioeconomic area and again, not one question or calculator.

What I saw go on in the industry pre 911, was the freaking wild west.

This is where the Costco program works well. No negotiation, one price, buy it or not. Plus you get the price before you show up; they'll give it to you over the phone because it has been pre negotiated.

The only time in recent years that we did dealer financing was because they actually gave us an additional $500 under the Costco price if we financed it. They told me I had to make 3 payments before I paid it off. Called Nissan the next day, found out this was BS and wrote them a check that afternoon. If you don't have the cash on hand you can use a credit union or a bank to get a loan to pay off the first one. Better terms in the long run plus any incentives for financing.

[mack_turtle]

On that note, if you need a straight-shooting car mechanic, look up Banker. He's near Mary Moore Seawright Park.

[ATXZJ]

Auto and bike purchases can be quite different. An auto is the second largest purchase most consumers will make in their lifetimes. Bikes are luxury items.  Auto dealers can get away with less than ethical business practices because consumers are looking for the lowest price/payment and are willing to wade through the slime gauntlet to get it. Most fail in the end and get screwed.

IMHO, bike shops really have to survive off word of mouth, reputation and customer service. That slow burn is hard to do as a startup when the big shops are dominating the market, and operating costs are super high in Austin. I don't think that having the lowest price on a bike is the main driving factor in the average bike purchase. Now I say average as I don't think anyone contributing to this thread is an average consumer. We are informed, experienced and know where to go to get the best service and prices. Go in a bike shop and listen to the conversation between a salesperson and a customer. That's the average consumer.

It's a business I'd want no part of on the retail side. Large scale manufacturing and distribution, maybe.

 

 

[CBaron]

1 hour ago, ATXZJ said:

An auto is the second largest purchase most consumers will make in their lifetimes.

 

Thats only if you are doing it wrong.  Up until about 5-6 yrs ago, nearly all my bikes have been worth more than the cars I bought. 😉

 

[ATXZJ]

10 minutes ago, CBaron said:

 

Thats only if you are doing it wrong.  Up until about 5-6 yrs ago, nearly all my bikes have been worth more than the cars I bought. 😉

 

There is that. I have a buddy in utah who's still driving around in the rustbucket 1995 integra he had in HS, with $8k of bikes strapped to it🤣  

[crane]

On 7/10/2020 at 11:04 AM, mack_turtle said:

for example, a lady came in with her one week-old Trek hardtail that had a faulty Rockshox fork air spring. Rather than mail the fork back to SRAM to deal with it, I took a fork off an identical bike from our sales floor and put it on her bike. It took us a week or two to get the replacement fork on the bike from our stock, but the customer's bike was handled and ready to go in an hour. (she ignored multiple voicemail messages that I left her and called back angry several weeks later, but that's on her.)

That’s a shop that gets it, IMO. I had basically the opposite experience with a local shop last year. I bought the bike from them for msrp and it took arm twisting to get them to make a warranty claim.  They were perfectly content for me to be without a bike for a month once they shipped the part back to the manufacturer despite me asking if they could get me a loaner part for my bike.  
 

I ended up reaching out to competitive cyclist to purchase a replacement part and they overnighted it so I wouldn’t miss any riding that weekend. Competitive cyclist also offered to handle the warranty claim for me even though they didn’t have anything to do with the original sale.  The warranty claim got handled in the end (via the local shop) and now I have a backup if the part ever fails again in the future. And I’m left wondering what exactly I got for buying local and paying full retail.  I’m looking to get a new ride right now and take a wild guess about who I am and am not talking to about the purchase...

Edited July 12, 2020 by crane

[natas1321]

There is that. I have a buddy in utah who's still driving around in the rustbucket 1995 integra he had in HS, with $8k of bikes strapped to it[emoji1787]  

My bike hauler (older 2003 Tacoma) is about half the price of my bikes so I get it.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[ATXZJ]

We do big roadtrips to the middle of nowehere, and hate being stranded, so we keep our vehicle fleet relatively new. My buddy in Utah is doing the typical millennial route and preparing to buy a ford transit to live in. We shall see......

I can say this. Some of the best customer service I've received has been from ordering online from bike shops. Jenson and Worldwide are some of the absolute the best when it comes to CS. Cambria has also treated me pretty well too but mainly because I've bought most of my konas from them.

Edited July 13, 2020 by ATXZJ

[Big_papa_nuts]

Reading this thread reminds me of the trips to the appliance store with my dad as a kid.

[AntonioGG]

On 7/12/2020 at 1:50 PM, ATXZJ said:

There is that. I have a buddy in utah who's still driving around in the rustbucket 1995 integra he had in HS, with $8k of bikes strapped to it🤣  

I miss my 96 GSR.  One of the best and most fun cars I've ever owned.  I told the guy I sold it to when he was done with it to give me a call back.  If I didn't already have too many cars I would have bought it back.  I'm still driving the same car I bought in 07 to replace it. I have no urge to replace it but @CBaron will get first dibs when I'm done with it.

[ATXZJ]

5 minutes ago, AntonioGG said:

I miss my 96 GSR.  One of the best and most fun cars I've ever owned. 

Awesome!

had a 92. was a fun and revvy little car but god did it understeer. considering my age at the time, that was probably a good thing 🤣

[AntonioGG]

Just now, ATXZJ said:

Awesome!

had a 92. was a fun and revvy little car but god did it understeer. considering my age at the time, that was probably a good thing 🤣

Yes, that's one thing that I love about my 07 speed3.  85 more HP, about 160 lbs-ft more but less understeer due to the super cool differential Mazda stuck in there.

[AntonioGG]

https://www.outsideonline.com/2415650/rockymounts-bike-racks-coronavirus-pandemic

[The Tip]

On 7/12/2020 at 11:12 AM, mack_turtle said:

On that note, if you need a straight-shooting car mechanic, look up Banker. He's near Mary Moore Seawright Park.

Not only are they reasonably priced and competent, BUT, Don Banker mows the single track trail corridor that runs along the train track behind his shop. Not just behind his property but almost the entire length of the segment. He's been doing this for a long time. Next time you're riding to Mary Moore Searight yell across the fence, "Thanks Don!"

[cxagent]

On 7/11/2020 at 7:17 PM, AustinBike said:

I have had Infiniti in the past and now have Nissan. Their service is fine, but all I have ever gotten is oil changes. 28K miles, basically only oil. The Infiniti is the high end of the Nissan family and they had great service. There was one incident but they made it right. I'd buy another Nissan in a heartbeat but I am going to give them a fake phone #. Can't stand the way the sales guys try to get me to buy a new car every time I take it in for an oil change.

When they ask for my phone number I tell them   -  "9 - 1- 1. Because if ANYBODY EVER calls me it will become an emergency."

[June Bug]

Southwest CycleSport on Bee Cave Rd is closing its doors at the end of the month.  I've never been in the store, it's far away, but Jennifer, one of the owners, was a regular at Ride Like a Girl in years past and is a truly nice person. 

One the website, they mention that the lease on their store is up this month, and with all the changes going on (including, I assume, Bicycle Sport Shop opening a location close by on Bee Cave Rd) they've decided to close.