AustinBike Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Having ridden on 12-speed (SRAM) for almost a year now, I still feel that the old Shimano 10-speed was smoother and sturdier. It always feels like the SRAM cassette is too frail. Maybe it is the sound, maybe it is the engagement. This got me thinking that instead of going even higher (i.e. 13-speed) is there a market for a better 10- or 11-speed option with wider range? I never use the 50T because it spins too much, so much so that I am thinking about ditching the front ring for a bigger one. Would the shifting range of a 10-speed with a 50T in the back be so large that the jumps between gears on the cassette would be too jarring, or would you eventually get used to the increments? I'm seriously considering moving down in total gears for my next drivetrain upgrade, but the biggest issue is probably the availability of components moving forward more than anything else. Thoughts? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Man Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 I would accept the opposite- I almost never use the bottom of the Cassette- I'd get rid of those 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted December 17, 2020 Author Share Posted December 17, 2020 Does this make a "roll your own" cassette a viable idea? The real value of a cassette is the strength of the spider, but what if you could order custom gear ranges? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natas1321 Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 I would actually like a 9 or 10 speed option. Sent from my moto g(7) supra using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXZJ Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) I was here a couple months ago on my park bike. It spends most of its time in the bailout gear crawling to the top of the hill, then the little cog for a short run back down. Could honestly make due with a 4spd but it'd never shift right. Was seriously considering the box 9 one but kept hearing how sensitive they were to adjustment. That's the last thing I wanted was a 9spd that's temperamental. Ended up going 12spd xt derailleur with 11-50 11spd cassette. I've run 11-46, 10spd and it did really well but that's the max I'd push a 10spd. Currently putting together another bike for the wife that will run a 10spd wide ratio frankentrain. Also, the new 12spd derailleurs are light-years ahead of the older stuff when it comes to shifting and retention. You can also run the 12spd stuff on 10spd cassettes as long as you keep the largest cog as close to original intent as possible. EX: M8120 XT derailleur is designed for 45t so that would be a good candidate for 42 or 46 cassette vs the 8100 that's made for 51t. Hope all that crap makes sense. Edited December 17, 2020 by ATXZJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 ten seems like plenty for most riders and should keep costs down. the question is: how many gears is enough? and how many is enough for the average consumer? I'm certain that most rider don't care enough about "cadence," especially on a mountain bike, to need 12 or more. for elite level athletes or people who think they are elite level athletes, there are options. for the rest of us, 1x9 is probably just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebflo Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 No doubt I would be happy with a 10-speed if it had the 10 I want, but everyone would want a different 10. Modern 12-speeds allow bikes to come off the shelf with all the gears I want as well as all the gears most other people want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, ebflo said: No doubt I would be happy with a 10-speed if it had the 10 I want, but everyone would want a different 10. Modern 12-speeds allow bikes to come off the shelf with all the gears I want as well as all the gears most other people want. The same would have been said about 8 speed versus 10, back when 8 was normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebflo Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 15 minutes ago, TheX said: The same would have been said about 8 speed versus 10, back when 8 was normal. Sure, and it was true because we had front derailleurs (may they burn in hell). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Going from 10 to 11 speed XT was a slight upgrade for me. Going from 42t to 46t in the back makes it easier to run 170mm cranks to avoid pedal strikes. Other than the range it feels identical. This is a thing: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/first-look-microshifts-10-speed-advent-x-drivetrain-pond-beaver-2020.html Then there's this article: https://cyclingtips.com/2019/12/the-best-bicycle-chain-durability-and-efficiency-tested/ Their tests show that 12 speed is significantly more durable than 11 speed. These graphs are chain wear, but I think it makes sense to assume that the rest of the drivetrain wears at a similar rate since it's so enmeshed with the chain. \ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXZJ Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) Yes, the 12spd chain is also a huge upgrade in shift quality and durability (mainly from improvements in design and also the ability to run at a greater angle). I run X0 eagle chain on my 11spd sram and 12spd KMC on my other bikes. You can easily buy a widerange sunrace or microshift 9spd cassette, Deore/SLX/XT 12spd derailleur, eagle gx chain and a box one 9spd shifter and have a CTX baller on a budget. The biggest issue is the jump from the 2nd to largest cog to the bailout gear. A 6 tooth jump is normal, 8 is pushing it and anything over that is gonna be trash IMHO. Edited December 17, 2020 by ATXZJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circuitbreaker Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 6 hours ago, AustinBike said: Having ridden on 12-speed (SRAM) for almost a year now, I still feel that the old Shimano 10-speed was smoother and sturdier. It always feels like the SRAM cassette is too frail. Maybe it is the sound, maybe it is the engagement. Maybe the key is just to try the new Shimano stuff. I have not ridden Shimano 11 or 12 speed, but all the reviewers seem to gush over the new hyperglide stuff. my only experience is with road bikes, where I very much prefer the feel of Shimano shifting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notyal Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 It wasn't long ago that some of us thought the future was internally geared hubs and cranksets. Those I knew with a Rohloff hub swore by it. I can't remember the last time I've even heard of someone running one of those now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) gearboxes integrated in the bottom bracket area. put a Nuvinci CVT gearbox in a bike and call it a day. I've not had any interest in putting a derailer on a bike in years, but might consider it if I could do away with most of the dangly bits. Viral is doing it. Edited December 17, 2020 by mack_turtle 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebflo Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, mack_turtle said: gearboxes integrated in the bottom bracket area. put a Nuvinci CVT gearbox in a bike and call it a day. Light, strong, cheap. Pick two one (except light or cheap). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXZJ Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 A lot of cogs on these but id like to ride one once. https://www.deviatecycles.com/guide 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throet Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 I run my back-up bike with a 10spd 11-36T cassette and 28t chainring that gives me all the range I need for around here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_papa_nuts Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 There are a bunch of options on the market that will allow this. SRAM EX1, Microshift Advent and Advent X, Box Prime 9, SENSAH, ETC. Go, buy, do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted December 18, 2020 Author Share Posted December 18, 2020 19 hours ago, circuitbreaker said: Maybe the key is just to try the new Shimano stuff. I have not ridden Shimano 11 or 12 speed, but all the reviewers seem to gush over the new hyperglide stuff. my only experience is with road bikes, where I very much prefer the feel of Shimano shifting. Yeah, if I ever have a chance I would definitely want to try the Shimano. After years of SRAM I switched to Shimano in the 10-speed days, and found that their 10-speed was better than SRAM. Had been on Shimano for years since then and recently shifted to SRAM with the 12-speed last fall. Next time I rent a bike, I'll be looking to see if it has a Shimano drive train, the SRAM just "feels" cheaper/lighter. I can't discern if it is 12-speed or SRAM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4fun Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 My newest bike has come with GX 12 speed. Which might as well be a 11 speed because the 52 tooth on the new GX will never get used around here and even in harsher climbing environment I can't see myself using it! 10 speed with a 42 tooth bail out would be just fine for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted December 19, 2020 Author Share Posted December 19, 2020 52? I spin too much on my 50 that I never use it. 52 is just adding insult to injury. Those things are really only good for long sustained climbs and we just don't have them here. They help a bit on our short steep climbs, but two or three revolutions in and you're at the top and suddenly be in 50T is a problem. I do all of my climbing in the 2nd or 3rd gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4fun Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 2 hours ago, AustinBike said: 52? I spin too much on my 50 that I never use it. 52 is just adding insult to injury. Those things are really only good for long sustained climbs and we just don't have them here. They help a bit on our short steep climbs, but two or three revolutions in and you're at the top and suddenly be in 50T is a problem. I do all of my climbing in the 2nd or 3rd gear. Yeah the pissing contest between shimano and Sram is ridiculous 52 was totally unnecessary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXZJ Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 Definitely agree as most of my climbing is 1 to 1 (32t) but I was all up in that 44t at mount lakeway. Would've liked to had a 50 for sure as I'd rather sit and spin slow and low than walk. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted December 19, 2020 Author Share Posted December 19, 2020 I have used the 50T at Lakeway and it works there because many of the switchbacks are actually long grinds. But most other places do not need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willatter Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 I upgraded to the new Sram AXS with the 10-52 a couple months ago and like it. I agree that it is overkill for most of what we ride around here but I was thankful to be able to noodle up some of the hills when I did the Rattler last month. I also like it on the super steep technical climbs. It is not for everyone, but it does have some value in certain situations. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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