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What is the next skill...


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On 12/28/2020 at 7:18 PM, crazyt said:

what are they useful for? 

Like @mack_turtle said,they're useful for a few feet but after that they're only used for showing off--or for fun, both of which are acceptable. 

But as a skill for quick drop-offs they are essential to technical trail riding because you don't always have time for a bunny hop or a pedal assist wheelie. Sometimes the drop-off is bigger than you think and you only have a moment for a quick manual. It is an essential tool for not breaking my "never go OTBs" rule.

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15 minutes ago, Barry said:

Like @mack_turtle said,they're useful for a few feet but after that they're only used for showing off--or for fun, both of which are acceptable. 

But as a skill for quick drop-offs they are essential to technical trail riding because you don't always have time for a bunny hop or a pedal assist wheelie. Sometimes the drop-off is bigger than you think and you only have a moment for a quick manual. It is an essential tool for not breaking my "never go OTBs" rule.

^^^^ This ^^^^

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11 hours ago, Barry said:

Like @mack_turtle said,they're useful for a few feet but after that they're only used for showing off--or for fun, both of which are acceptable. 

But as a skill for quick drop-offs they are essential to technical trail riding because you don't always have time for a bunny hop or a pedal assist wheelie. Sometimes the drop-off is bigger than you think and you only have a moment for a quick manual. It is an essential tool for not breaking my "never go OTBs" rule.

pushing the bars out is much easier to time (some people call it a mini manual). A manual is good if you are going to slow (like on rays collarbone which has a 90 degree turn into a drop) but pushing the bars out seems much more useful than a manual for drops.

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For me it’s gap jumps. A table or ladder drop I’ll launch, but if there’s open space between the takeoff and landing I get timid which never ends well. Ramps with curved up lips/kickers I’m also sketchy at. I was never a bmxer so no air skillz.

Trackstands were actually one of the better skills I brought over from my college roadie days. Riding in traffic with snug toe straps and riding rollers make you learn to trackstand or kiss the pavement a ton. I cringe when I hear all the push/pull counter balance stuff people like to preach. To me the key is learning to keep still. The more you bob the more you have to focus on fighting to keep the bike up and can’t look up at the obstacle. Learning to keep your head and upper body still and only moving your hips let’s you look ahead and doesn’t pull your focus.

From that you can easily do a back pedal to get your dominant foot up. Then to go up, squeeze the brakes, drop your shoulders and yank back to get that front wheel up as you do that power stroke. On multi ledges you can tap the brakes and repeat the trackstand to power stroke if you aren’t doing at that bobbing.


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19 minutes ago, crazyt said:

pushing the bars out is much easier to time (some people call it a mini manual). A manual is good if you are going to slow (like on rays collarbone which has a 90 degree turn into a drop) but pushing the bars out seems much more useful than a manual for drops.

That works as well, particularly when the run-out is smooth or you know what's coming up. I'm really talking about those oh shit moments when you're surprised by something that's not only a drop, but is follow by chunky front wheel traps. 

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I would like to be able to manual.  In my eyes, a manual is a lot like juggling is to soccer.  You may not juggle (with rare exceptions) in a soccer game, but it teaches you touch, balance, etc.  I can’t manual, but would like to learn because the riders I have seen that can manual well have such fantastic balance and bike control.  Not saying you have to be able to manual to have balance and control, just an observation.

I personally would like to get more comfortable on wooden features.  They freak me out.  As previously mentioned, going in timid is when you get hurt.

Safe & Happy New Years to All!

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21 hours ago, Shanerpvt said:

I would like to be able to manual.  In my eyes, a manual is a lot like juggling is to soccer.  You may not juggle (with rare exceptions) in a soccer game, but it teaches you touch, balance, etc.  I can’t manual, but would like to learn because the riders I have seen that can manual well have such fantastic balance and bike control.  Not saying you have to be able to manual to have balance and control, just an observation.

I personally would like to get more comfortable on wooden features.  They freak me out.  As previously mentioned, going in timid is when you get hurt.

Safe & Happy New Years to All!

The wooden features on Tarantula at Spider mountain are a good way to get used to wooden features. You can carry enough speed to easily roll through most of them. Skinnies are a different story though.

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My next skill is manuals, but only as a means to get more confidence on the timing for moving around for drops, and to do a proper bunny hop.  I just watched @gotdurt video in the Brushy Creek thread, 20 times in slow motion for both the drop at EBD, basket, but also the log at picnic.  I can do a small drop 50 times and it feels good when I nail it, but there are times when I don't time things right, and it feels worse than if I just rolled it. That gives me pause for the bigger drops.  I don't need to do a 1 block manual, just be able to start when I want it.  

It's similar to a wheelie.  I don't need it to show off, but it's definitely given me confidence for going up the taller ledges.  If you want to pop up to go up a good size ledge at a decent speed, you better get it right.  Recently on a night ride, one of those ledges on 1/4 (snake ridge) got me.  The timing was off b/c of lighting (it's totally just like trying to catch a fly ball at night for the first time!), thankfully it was just chest in the bars (or bars in the chest?).

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50 minutes ago, AntonioGG said:

My next skill is manuals, but only as a means to get more confidence on the timing for moving around for drops, and to do a proper bunny hop.  I just watched @gotdurt video in the Brushy Creek thread, 20 times in slow motion for both the drop at EBD, basket, but also the log at picnic.  I can do a small drop 50 times and it feels good when I nail it, but there are times when I don't time things right, and it feels worse than if I just rolled it. That gives me pause for the bigger drops.  I don't need to do a 1 block manual, just be able to start when I want it.  

This post nails it for me. Thank you!

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one of these days, I need to learn to jump. I can bunnyhop and I'll roll drops, but actually jumping any sort of double, even a small one, scare the hell out of me.

storytime! I rode BMX from about age 13 well into my 30s. I never once actually jumped a dirt double or a real ramp at a skatepark. I carved bowls and small airs on quarter pipes, but never a full lip-gap-landing ramp. I spent countless hours digging at the local trails in Indiana but never jumped anything that was not a table-top. during my sophomore year of college, my roommate was a fellow BMX rider, so we had tons of fun shredding campus late at night and sessions at the local indoor skatepark.

I believe it was my 20th birthday (it's cold AF in January in northern Indiana) and we drove to the skatepark. I committed to making a clean landing on the box jump that night, which was about 5.5 feet tall and had a flat top a few feet longer and a curved landing. you had to get speed for it by blasting up a wall ride (curved transition that leads to a impossibly high vertical wall) opposite the lip of the ramp. trusting myself to get enough height on that wall was the first concern. I jumped it a few times and always chickened out, got squirrely in the air, and cased the landing out of fear of landing smoothly, which makes no sense. on a final, committed attempt, I got a little sideways in the air and put a foot out to keep myself from falling over on the landing. my ankle gave out on impact, I heard a boney *pop* and went down. the night was over. a doctor gave me a temporary cast and crutches but I had a lot of walking to do to get around campus. I'm sure it never healed right, but that was 20 years ago.

so I have a date with jumping. it will happen some day.

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22 minutes ago, mack_turtle said:

one of these days, I need to learn to jump. I can bunnyhop and I'll roll drops, but actually jumping any sort of double, even a small one, scare the hell out of me.

Mountain biking means different things to different people. For me personally, it is about exploration, figuring out where a bike can take you given the obstacles that nature has put in front of you. For that reason, I've always felt like manmade jump lines are a departure from what the sport is for me. Don't get me wrong though, watching YT videos of guys hitting massive jumps at Whistler is awe inspiring, and I admire anybody who can pull off those feats. For me though, creating minimal lift using bump jumps off of natural obstacles on the trail is satisfying enough. Mastering drops has been much more critical for me simply because there are an abundance of them on the trails I regularly ride.

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19 minutes ago, throet said:

Mountain biking means different things to different people. For me personally, it is about exploration, figuring out where a bike can take you given the obstacles that nature has put in front of you. 

me too. most of my BMX days were spend riding "street" which is very similar to finding the best way to enjoy natural terrain on a mountain bike. the "natural terrain" for BMX street riding is mostly manmade, but riding it in creative ways that for which it was not designed. I didn't really like skatepark riding, especially skateparks with big wood ramps. it was a convenient way to get a lot of riding down in a condensed space, rather than wandering around a city for hours looking for obstacles to ride.

my interest in jumping is not about sending massive gaps and doing tricks, i just want to finally conquer my irrational fear of even the smallest jumps. there are a few sets of small man-made jumps here in SATN with 2-3 foot high lips and landings with short gaps. kids will blast over these without a second thought, but I have a phobia of this stuff that I know will feel fantastic when I get over it. I can manual these types of jumps and I would jump them without a second thought if the gap was filled in with a table top, but I can't bring myself to actually jump an itty bitty double.

success story: I once rode Cold Water Mountain in Alabama. it's a long climb followed by a really fast downhill. there are doubles built into the downhill segment and I had no idea what I was in for. by the time I saw the doubles, i slowed a bit and manualled the first set, but I was carrying too much speed for that. Just gap-jumped the next few sets, which were not very big, on my SS hardtail with a 80mm fork. necessity pushed me past that fear. my choices were to skid to a stop and probably crash in the process, slow to a crawl and cause a pile-up of riders behind me, or send those doubles. I did that latter and it felt amazing. I have not duplicated that feeling in the eight years or so since then.

Edited by mack_turtle
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27 minutes ago, mack_turtle said:

riding "street" which is very similar to finding the best way to enjoy natural terrain on a mountain bike.

Here's a perfect combination of porch, street, and terrain! I'm thinking if I just buy this bike I'll be able to do it all! 🤣🤣🤣

 

30 minutes ago, mack_turtle said:

success story: I once rode Cold Water Mountain in Alabama. it's a long climb followed by a really fast downhill. there are doubles built into the downhill segment and I had no idea what I was in for. by the time I saw the doubles, i slowed a bit and manualled the first set, but I was carrying too much speed for that. Just gap-jumped the next few sets, which were not very big, on my SS hardtail with a 80mm fork. necessity pushed me past that fear.

Interesting story! Seems that once you pushed past the fear like that, even unintentionally, that would have been enough to push you into a steady path of progression. Suppose it was a case of too much time passing between opportunities. Will look forward to hearing more once your date with jump destiny arrives! 

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20 minutes ago, throet said:

Here's a perfect combination of porch, street, and terrain! I'm thinking if I just buy this bike I'll be able to do it all!

this is why I particularly enjoy watching Chris Akrigg videos. he proves again and again that the rider is all that matters. having a bike that doesn't break under you is the only limiting factor. I know of a few little jump spots nearby, so that's my plan for the near future. it's 100% mental at this point. i could jump stuff with no problems if I just get over that hump.

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I'm not even sure what happened. I really didn't expect to gain any appreciable new skill at this point. I even said as much either here or Mojo a couple of years ago. I went 18 years not really being able to jump at all--then suddenly it just 'clicked' sometime in mind 2019. I used to hit a jump without doing anything at all, I'd just ride into it, and get surprised when I was bucked. So I never tried anything. But then I just started trying to bunny-hop off jumps at WC, and somehow that worked. Now I try to pre-load + bunny hop and that seams to work out pretty well. I went from not jumping anything, to cleaning most of the WC BMX track (inner), as well as all the jumps at SN and ChristChurch. 

I'm still not too excited about big lips though, but I can manage the wood lips at ChristChurch. There is this very nice large table-top at about the middle of FRR's Cowabunga. It's very wide, and the right side has a huge lip, and the left side has a flatter lip, level with the table. With enough speed, I can hit the flatter side and clear the table perfectly. But I don't yet dare hit the lip side. Maybe that's the next thing? 

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Speaking of jumping

Recently built a small 18" kicker ramp and some small/med drops for the wife to practice on. She wants to get better at jumps & drops and is understandably a little afraid. She was also taught some pretty bad habits at a LIV clinic a few ago that we're still correcting. If you've ever tried to coach a spouse through this kind of stuff you'll appreciate how touch and go it can be😁

Two weeks ago she was confident enough to hit the drop and started getting the hang of sticking the landing. That was until the last go when she got mike tyson'd. Let her left foot slip off the pedal on the landing and ended up with a face full of dirt and grass. She was a bit shocked as it happened so fast and she has always been the queen of slow speed crashes. Seems like she might be better for it having gotten a crash out of the way, and was hitting bigger stuff at RHR this weekend. Time will tell.

Went out and dug a bit more so she can face that demon again with a little easier run in. 

I'm gonna use that little ramp to practice step ups.

 

Edited by ATXZJ
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