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Ok I'm gonna chime in here. I don't ride 1/4-DD on my gravel bike but I have a sneaking suspicion that there are people who do. I've seen a bunch of guys on carbon Wunder gravel bikes since this whole pandemic shit show started. This is just my theory but I think some of these b-lines may have been created by gravel riders. Now I have no issue with b-lines for something like gravel riders. Unfortunately what I saw this weekend is that because of the b-lines the original lines are getting f'd up just due to lack of use and the close proximity to the b-line. The Altar used to have a nice clear run up to it, when I was there Sunday it appeared the b-line was being more used and the run up to the Altar was littered with loose rocks that got kicked off the b-line. It looked basically like it was being reclaimed by the trail. There are also a bunch of new cut throughs between the switch backs in between Dub Step and Pre Plunge, this I don't even understand you're saving like 10 feet of travel so it must be that those switch back sections are too hard? 

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53 minutes ago, brokenrazor said:

...the more people we have riding trails the better - in opinion.

As someone who has been riding these trails for 7-8 years and has observed the ill-effects of exponentially increased traffic over this time, I'd respectfully beg to differ.

53 minutes ago, brokenrazor said:

purpose built b-lines also discourage people from altering or creating there own cheater lines.

That seems like sound logic, I know, but in over 30 years of mountain biking, I've seen that it doesn't seem to help at all, in fact I have a theory that seeing more than one line validates thoughts of adding additional lines. The only Time I think "B" lines are acceptable are on black trails that might have an occasional double black feature that can't be walked, like you would find at a bike park... this is just for safety, and newbs/novices aren't riding such trails. Usually seasoned intermediate and advanced riders don't mess with features or try to bypass them, it's almost always newer riders (or RidingAgain) who are on a trail that they simply aren't ready for.

Additionally, around here, easy B-lines eventually become more and more challenging with traffic, then a C-line forms, until it becomes more of a challenge, then a D-line forms...

Edited by gotdurt
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I just don't agree that b-lines equal dumbing down a trail. The new flow trail at Reimers Ranch has b-lines and they don't do do anything to affect the a-lines. They are planned routes around the more advanced feature to discourage people from cutting their own lines. Not to mention having fun. This is what the issue is - people cut there own lines because they don't want to walk. No matter how hard you try, it will keep happening.

Also, I do get off and walk. I get it. I'm talking about a solution to the issue, not my own behavior. I don't alter the trail, but a can get behind the idea of making the trail more inclusive while not removing any of the existing features - like the log. Somebody did that because they were annoyed that they had to get off their bike. How do you keep that from happening? Maybe, if there was a line that allowed whoever moved it to roll over it since they can't hop it, they would have left it alone for everybody else. How does that hurt, or dumb down, the trail? Moving the log dumbs it down even more.

 

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9 minutes ago, Chief said:

Ok I'm gonna chime in here. I don't ride 1/4-DD on my gravel bike but I have a sneaking suspicion that there are people who do. I've seen a bunch of guys on carbon Wunder gravel bikes since this whole pandemic shit show started.

You bet I get my plastic gravel wunderbike out on Deception! But I'm an obstinate b-line blocker from way back.

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1 minute ago, brokenrazor said:

I just don't agree that b-lines equal dumbing down a trail. The new flow trail at Reimers Ranch has b-lines and they don't do do anything to affect the a-lines.

Those are wide massive corridor flow trails. The only thing they have in common with Deception is rock and dirt. Deception is built to be singltrack. 

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1 minute ago, Barry said:

Those are wide massive corridor flow trails. The only thing they have in common with Deception is rock and dirt. Deception is built to be singltrack. 

that was one example - b-lines can be used to prevent un-sustainable trail widening on single track. if you plan for them and use them as a tool rather than something to dismiss just because you want to keep people off the trail. that might be a whole other discussion.

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B-lines can make sense on some singltrack where you have a tough obstacle every mile or so. But most folks think tough obstacles are all Deception is. And remember unlike many areas, our limestone trails get harder over time.

Quoted for truth:

33 minutes ago, gotdurt said:

Additionally, around here, easy B-lines eventually become more and more challenging with traffic, then a C-line forms, until it becomes more of a challenge, then a D-line forms...

 

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29 minutes ago, Yosmithy said:

Again, I was amazed at the re-routes out there. B lines on trails just add's B line riders to trails that have no business on.

It seems to take more balls to just get off your bike and walk a section than it does to insist there be a B Line.

NUT UP BITCHES!!!!

Unknown.jpeg

Edited by Chief
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A little over 4 years ago I tried 1/4 notch for the first time. Made it to snake ridge and gave up.  It was too hard for me so I turned back and vomited somewhere ( so close to the bailout 😂). Today I can do it without dabbing and getting harder bonus lines. B lines would not have helped me progress. Practice and patience were the correct route. 

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2 hours ago, gotdurt said:

Additionally, around here, easy B-lines eventually become more and more challenging with traffic, then a C-line forms, until it becomes more of a challenge, then a D-line forms...

I'm also re-quoting this.  See Emma Long for what happens to B-lines in limestone trails.

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10 minutes ago, brokenrazor said:

Moving on. One feature on 1/4 that I’m not sure I will ever try, is Sponge Bob. It scares the sh*t out of me. Is there a way to roll it? Or do you have to drop it?

I regularly roll down Sponge Bob and I’m intermediate at best.   Just go down the right side sorta close to the tree.    Very easy roll down.  Don’t get me wrong.  It looks frightening to the eye.  Once you do it, you’ll be mad you didn’t do it sooner. 

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Holy cow, mind sharing your light setup?

Gloworm X2 (1,700 lumens) on the bar and a Gloworm CX (1,200 lumens) on my helmet. In this photo, the X2 was on low power and the CX was on medium power.

There is a thread on riding lights where I go into more detail.

https://austinmountainbiking.com/index.php?/topic/1421-night-riding-lights/


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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6 hours ago, brokenrazor said:

Moving on. One feature on 1/4 that I’m not sure I will ever try, is Sponge Bob. It scares the sh*t out of me. Is there a way to roll it? Or do you have to drop it?

Very much able to roll down Sponge Bob. There's a line left of center that I find most suitable for rolling it. This was a controversial video, but the method described works incredibly well for rolling this type of drop IMO.  

 

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1 hour ago, throet said:

Very much able to roll down Sponge Bob. There's a line left of center that I find most suitable for rolling it. This was a controversial video, but the method described works incredibly well for rolling this type of drop IMO.  

 

As he does the bigger ones, he does put his weight backwards towards the rear axel. Just for the first impact. This keeps you safe and not over. 

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5 hours ago, throet said:

Very much able to roll down Sponge Bob. There's a line left of center that I find most suitable for rolling it. This was a controversial video, but the method described works incredibly well for rolling this type of drop IMO.  

 

thanks. i am pretty sure i have the ability to do it. its more the fear factor looking at the rocky run out and how much of a shit show it would be if things went wrong. what was so controversial about this video i wonder.

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3 hours ago, Morris said:

As he does the bigger ones, he does put his weight backwards towards the rear axel. Just for the first impact. This keeps you safe and not over. 

Yes! I've seen this technique demo'd many times, and no matter what they say, they still end up with their balls off the back of the seat.

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For just rolling drops, the key is to approach with your body low and just stay centered on the BB; many people approach a drop or steep and in anticipation, automatically shift their weight back straightening their arms, and that's a recipe for instability or even looping, either forward or back. Staying centered might still result in your butt touching the back tire, but only because that happens to be the centered position, not because you shifted your weight back.


Now, if you are launching a drop with momentum, there may be a more complicated combination of movements, but that's a different discussion that, IMO, comes after you've mastered the roll...
 


As for Sponge Bob, this is up and down on a single speed... dismiss the "hop" I did at the top of the drop though, it's not necessary, I was just having fun. On my FS I launch with more momentum, and land on the sloped portion. But the rolling drop technique by Betterride is ideal for rolling it.

 

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6 minutes ago, Yosmithy said:

Yes! I've seen this technique demo'd many times, and no matter what they say, they still end up with their balls off the back of the seat.

Right. Pause each video and you can see he is way back at one point. I thought that I mostly stayed centered on bigger drops...I certainly land centered. But here I am way the hell back as I roll off. 

 

Screenshot_20201028-094837_Photos.jpg

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17 hours ago, brokenrazor said:

I just don't agree that b-lines equal dumbing down a trail. The new flow trail at Reimers Ranch has b-lines and they don't do do anything to affect the a-lines. They are planned routes around the more advanced feature to discourage people from cutting their own lines. Not to mention having fun. This is what the issue is - people cut there own lines because they don't want to walk. No matter how hard you try, it will keep happening.

Also, I do get off and walk. I get it. I'm talking about a solution to the issue, not my own behavior. I don't alter the trail, but a can get behind the idea of making the trail more inclusive while not removing any of the existing features - like the log. Somebody did that because they were annoyed that they had to get off their bike. How do you keep that from happening? Maybe, if there was a line that allowed whoever moved it to roll over it since they can't hop it, they would have left it alone for everybody else. How does that hurt, or dumb down, the trail? Moving the log dumbs it down even more.

 

There is already a b-line where the log is because it’s classified as a green trail. That was probably a hiker thinking they we’re doing A good deed removing a fallen tree

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22 hours ago, brokenrazor said:

ok - i'll say it. I don't think purpose built, sustainable b-lines are a bad thing. I don't think any b-line will make 1/4 or DD an 'easy' trail. if the main feature is still there, and there is a purpose built b-line for riders not yet able to attempt that feature, why not. the more people we have riding trails the better - in opinion. purpose built b-lines also discourage people from altering or creating there own cheater lines. let the flaming begin.

The problem with a B-line is that it will eventually encourage a C-line.

Just ride the damn line or walk it. After walking enough times I eventually get tired and try it more.

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