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Brushy Creek


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1 hour ago, GreenMTBrider said:

Trails are in great shape right now. 

As far as b-lines go, I’ll say this. Our best self improvement, whether it’s cycling, running, or on the job, happens when we’re challenged to push through obstacles, not by taking the path of least resistance. 

here’s a post that sums up what my original post was responding to - how to keep people from altering the trails. it’s a legitimate solution, but everyone is free to take it or leave it. i will keep riding everything i can and walking what i can’t.

 

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Allowing, encouraging, riding B lines, allows C line, D lines, through Z lines, or a fucking spider web mess of bullshit that no one but assholes want to ride. Shut up, ride the trail as it was built and be fucking grateful someone else created, maintains, and advocates for YOUR privilege to ride. 

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Crowd calls to first pro hockey goal tender to wear a mask in 1959: "Hey pussy, man up! GET BETTER so pucks don't hit you in the face."

Crowd calls to first pro football player to wear a face mask in the 50s: "Hey pussy, man up! GET BETTER to not let hands in your face."

Crowd calls to Tour de France riders first wearing helmets: "Chatte! Homme debout! Va mieux ne t'ecrase pas!"

Yup. The "man up" crowd proven wrong over and over.

And yet those games didn't change after these changes. They just made it more safe and more fun, AND PROLONG the CAREERS of these players. I laugh and envision our group of manly trail builders in there 60s or 70s carrying their bikes down a now too difficult for them feature, "Wow, I should have built a B line."

IMBA (yeah, what do they know, right?) encourages alternate lines so that many people can enjoy trails. It's just so selfish to say "it's built for me and if you can't ride it I don't care." If this is on YOUR land, fine. Do what you want. But public lands are limited. Build trail for more than just you and your 22 friends.

And no, designing and building alternate lines will not totally protect the challenging and fun line from being altered. But it will definitely help. And of course it's not always possible to build a B line either. But if you can, and if the B line is designed with a bit of different challenge, than even the rider that can do the hard feature will have a "new" trail to try on those days when he's not feeling the need for a bigger challenge.

I know that this issue is as delicate as pro choice vs pro right to lifers. There is no convincing people that feel the way they do. I just feel compelled to always chime in, to show those that think like me, that we are in the majority. Again, IMBA, the mountain bike advocacy group that does all they can to make our sport better, thinks this way. 

Did I say anywhere in there, DON'T ALTER TRAILS!!!!!?  That message cannot be repeated too many times.

Edited by The Tip
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5 minutes ago, TheX said:

There are a lot of places with b-lines, and that's fine. deception shouldn't be one of them.

A lot of the Brushy trails are so effective in using ALL the land available, there is barely room for the main trails. Agreed, it doesn't work everywhere. Refer to the "Don't alter trails" mantra.

My semi-tirade was in general terms.

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8 hours ago, The Tip said:

Crowd calls to first pro hockey goal tender to wear a mask in 1959: "Hey pussy, man up! GET BETTER so pucks don't hit you in the face."

Crowd calls to first pro football player to wear a face mask in the 50s: "Hey pussy, man up! GET BETTER to not let hands in your face."

Crowd calls to Tour de France riders first wearing helmets: "Chatte! Homme debout! Va mieux ne t'ecrase pas!"

Yup. The "man up" crowd proven wrong over and over.

 

This is why women live longer than men.

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The people commenting on here about how important alternate lines are for safety should actually come out here to Deception. The large majority of alternate lines created are not safety issues, you can easily put your foot down without any issues. I also suspect that a number of these were created by hikers to avoid some of the larger features. 

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9 hours ago, Morealice said:

Literal lol at this. Ole Rugger always making friends.  Was that the same guy from the 5-0 day? 

I was kidding, but referring to that incident in general...which seem to coincide with Wilco P&R leave the original note to "talk". 

But, yes, the fact is, someone nearby did complaint to the County Commission which is why 5-0 was shut down (again).

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36 minutes ago, ATXZJ said:

Watch any EWS or UCI DH race and those racers are creating their own lines from the first day of practice. 

Hard to expect an unsupervised  joe civilian to be any different without threat of gunplay. 

This is a good point but these guys at least have tape to keep them within some boundaries.  They are looking for the fastest line while each Joe Civilian has many different objectives: 

  1. Fastest line
  2. Safest line
  3. Most fun line
  4. Line closest to the sun bathing pool
  5. Line avoiding that big pile of dog shit

Suddenly there are now 5 lines where there was previously just 1.  The land manager then goes on a little stroll down the trail and this 'single track' that was pitched is now 'multi-track'.   Bait and switch?! 

Personally, I think that this is a problem that can be addressed with design and knowing your customer.  The customer on each trail is pre-selected by rating the trails green/blue/black etc.  You design the trail for that customer and maximize their enjoyment.  The PROBLEM with this approach is when you can't control which customer uses which trail.  These are trails on public land therefore the public is going to use them (as we should).   Knowing that Joe Civilian gives does not care about trail ratings or warning signs, they are going to use every trail available to them and you have to plan for it.  The absolute best trails are those where different riders can enjoy and not even notice that there were other options to the line that they took.  Some are good at drops.  Some are good at rock gardens.  Others love climbing (go figure?).  Each time they ride it, they can string it together differently.  

Bottom line.  Rule #1: Don't alter the trails.   Rule #2: Recognize that most of the trail users will not understand rule #1.

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1 hour ago, rugger said:

I was kidding, but referring to that incident in general...which seem to coincide with Wilco P&R leave the original note to "talk". 

But, yes, the fact is, someone nearby did complaint to the County Commission which is why 5-0 was shut down (again).

My memory of that moment was that it was definitely a seemingly sedentary fat fuck that had a huge issue with trail being so close to his glamorous, cookie cutter spec build home.  Last time I rode about a week or two ago, 5-0/up n over was fully open. Good luck trying to stop anything out there. There is simply too much demand for trails and not enough of it. In my worthless opinion, the ones who complain need to create personal wealth and move to enough isolated private land where they will never have to “deal” with people using public land within their view. 
 

While I cannot stand multiple unsanctioned lines, I also would be a hypocrite to say that things should always be sanctioned. As a collective, trail users in this area are speaking loudly and clearly that we will not be denied. It’s now been 7ish? years since we finished Deception and how many miles of sanctioned trail have been created on public land in this area since then? Peddlers? Honest question...
 

Edit: it’s been interesting to see just how many and what types of people are enjoying the trails out there. pretty sick

Edited by Morealice
Grammar shit mostly
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3 minutes ago, Morealice said:

My memory of that moment was that it was definitely a seemingly sedentary fat fuck that had a huge issue with trail being so close to his glamorous, cookie cutter spec build home.  Last time I rode about a week or two ago, 5-0/up n over was fully open. Good luck trying to stop anything out there. There is simply too much demand for trails and not enough of it. In my worthless opinion, the ones who complain need to create personal wealth and move to enough isolated private land where they will never have to “deal” with people using public land within their view. 
 

While I cannot stand multiple unsanctioned lines, I also would be a hypocrite to say that things should always be sanctioned. As a collective, trail users in this area are speaking loudly and clearly that we will not be denied. It’s now been 7-8 years since we finished Deception and how many miles of sanctioned trail have been created on public land in this area since then? Peddlers? Honest question...
 

Edit: it’s been interesting to see just how many and what types of people are enjoying the trails out there. pretty sick

Your memory is right, 5-0 was open, were where working on the trail to Mike's Meadow and had already rough cut the trail back as well and started a 3rd line (saving the area below 5-0 for a later) - so there was bout 2 more miles of trail built that we had to block and reclaim beyond 5-0. I told him we were volunteers with the "trail foundation", LOL, and that he looked like he could use the trail 😉 for exercise. 

At the rate were were going there would have been another 7-8 miles within 6 more months. Granted about 4 of that would have remained on the public land (above and beside Rim/Daves), the rest lost to the development. But we were accounting for that and building the trail in a way to easy connect where we knew the losses would occur. 

Keep in mind that Peddlers started rogue as well... and it's CP, not Wilco, so the real question is how much MTB trail has Wilco allowed in that time - ZERO! Non of the SW Regional Park is sanctioned and they do not want it, block some of it, discourage using it. There told Josh and I that we could build on Williams Tract (what you all know as River Ranch County Park), but they are excluding MTBs. 

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41 minutes ago, rugger said:

 so the real question is how much MTB trail has Wilco allowed in that time - ZERO! Non of the SW Regional Park is sanctioned and they do not want it, block some of it, discourage using it. There told Josh and I that we could build on Williams Tract (what you all know as River Ranch County Park), but they are excluding MTBs. 

This is what stands out the most to me, and should be shoved down Wilco P&R's throats. They don't have to do jack shit, but say yes, and there would be so much more for the community to have. Including areas like the Wilco Regional park.  Look at the demand right now, with this whole Covid fiasco. How much would the tax payers benefit?

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13 hours ago, rugger said:

Your memory is right, 5-0 was open, were where working on the trail to Mike's Meadow and had already rough cut the trail back as well and started a 3rd line (saving the area below 5-0 for a later) - so there was bout 2 more miles of trail built that we had to block and reclaim beyond 5-0. I told him we were volunteers with the "trail foundation", LOL, and that he looked like he could use the trail 😉 for exercise. 

Lol!!! The Trail Foundation... that’s riiiight. I forgot about that. 

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Lol!!! The Trail Foundation... that’s riiiight. I forgot about that. 
Your memory is right, 5-0 was open, were where working on the trail to Mike's Meadow and had already rough cut the trail back as well and started a 3rd line (saving the area below 5-0 for a later) - so there was bout 2 more miles of trail built that we had to block and reclaim beyond 5-0. I told him we were volunteers with the "trail foundation", LOL, and that he looked like he could use the trail [emoji6] for exercise. 
At the rate were were going there would have been another 7-8 miles within 6 more months. Granted about 4 of that would have remained on the public land (above and beside Rim/Daves), the rest lost to the development. But we were accounting for that and building the trail in a way to easy connect where we knew the losses would occur. 
Keep in mind that Peddlers started rogue as well... and it's CP, not Wilco, so the real question is how much MTB trail has Wilco allowed in that time - ZERO! Non of the SW Regional Park is sanctioned and they do not want it, block some of it, discourage using it. There told Josh and I that we could build on Williams Tract (what you all know as River Ranch County Park), but they are excluding MTBs. 
Nothing like a good B line discussion to bring out two dudes the world of trail building and mtb riding thought to be long dead

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On 10/27/2020 at 3:45 PM, Cafeend said:

So OK..

Why can't people learn to ride the trail or feature like it was intended to be ridden?

Why do the trails need to be dumbed down?

If you cannot ride it. Walk it till you can ride it.

Also I can think of several places where B lines were made on 1/4 and DD and now they are half the effing alphabet worth of trails.

Nope. You know what makes the trails easier? Riding them alot.. over and over and over again

Normally, I would agree. However, the accessibility of the trail must be considered. If double down was on cat mtn or spider then yes, your expectations are 100% correct. However, a highly technical trail was placed smack dab in the middle of suburbia and the expectation that weekend warrior Joe is going to ever ride at a level of DD is a high bar. I know I'll never be able to ride often enough to make it through DD without walking most features (or most of the trail 😉 ) . I really don't enjoy spending the few hours I get a week to ride walking my bike so I avoid it and work on 1/4 notch because it's much closer to my skill level and I enjoy the challenge it gives me at the frequency that I am able to ride. This demographic is currently exploding in all neighborhoods immediately surrounding Brushy. This will never not be an issue on these trails. They aren't remote and they aren't hard to find.

Education will always be lagging behind the amazing work done by the builders. Instead, I would recommend sanctioned B lines that are sustainable and allow the A line a chance to be untouched by Samaritan Sam. Your only other choices are: endure the random rebuilds block access to the trail to only the best or shut it down. 

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Normally, I would agree. However, the accessibility of the trail must be considered. If double down was on cat mtn or spider then yes, your expectations are 100% correct. However, a highly technical trail was placed smack dab in the middle of suburbia and the expectation that weekend warrior Joe is going to ever ride at a level of DD is a high bar. I know I'll never be able to ride often enough to make it through DD without walking most features (or most of the trail [emoji6] ) . I really don't enjoy spending the few hours I get a week to ride walking my bike so I avoid it and work on 1/4 notch because it's much closer to my skill level and I enjoy the challenge it gives me at the frequency that I am able to ride. This demographic is currently exploding in all neighborhoods immediately surrounding Brushy. This will never not be an issue on these trails. They aren't remote and they aren't hard to find.
Education will always be lagging behind the amazing work done by the builders. Instead, I would recommend sanctioned B lines that are sustainable and allow the A line a chance to be untouched by Samaritan Sam. Your only other choices are: endure the random rebuilds block access to the trail to only the best or shut it down. 
I actually have changed my mindset in the last few years on this issue. I mostly agree with you. But for this specific trail I would argue that B lines on ¹/⁴ Notch would be ok in my book. But not on DD. DD is designated Advanced and therefore should be left as such for all the reason mentioned in other posts. But ¹/⁴ Notch is designated a beginner to intermediate trail and sanctioned B lines would be warranted in space permits and if the route was indeed a B line around a tech feature not just a slightly easier route. Most of Deception proper is getting harder as erosion makes once easy features more intermediate and hard features harder.

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8 hours ago, rugger said:

You all realize there simply isn't enough real estate for alternate lines for every pebble and crack people seem to need a B line for?!

I was feeling left out and wanted to jump in the post for no reason 🤘feels like the old days when all the OG's start posting again. #traildivas #trailtrash  #wheredidallthesepeoplecomefrom

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