Brushy Creek

[rugger]

I've finally caved and joined...what did I miss? 

[cxagent]

Not a thing you couldn't get by riding down the middle of IH-35 during rush hour. Oh wait - that might be more fun.

[First-Blood]

I've finally caved and joined...what did I miss? 

New rules state ypu must be jumped back in

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Morealice]

16 minutes ago, First-Blood said:

New rules state ypu must be jumped back in

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

Not sure rugger is into your style of jumping in, you (reverse) cowboy.

[Tree Magnet]

4 hours ago, RedRider3141 said:

Dirt vs Loam vs Clay based soils. We have $h!t dirt. 

I did a 12 hour race at Rocky Hill many years ago (2008?) and it rained like crazy and turned the course into a soupy hell.  Since it was a race on private land, we kept racing in hub deep mud.  They shortened the race to 8 hours and it was still a nightmare.  I'd say that the race was sponsored by a bike shop due to the number of bottom brackets and drive train parts that we all ended up having to replace.  I'm not sure that the course ever fully recovered from that.  

[Albert]

1 hour ago, rugger said:

I've finally caved and joined...what did I miss? 

Welcome to the forum!  

[Cafeend]

1 hour ago, rugger said:

I've finally caved and joined...what did I miss? 

Riding Again spewing gibberish. Riding Muddy Trails. Tires for CenTex. Which group is better,, ARR or FR512, Seth broke something. Bart was banned,  Blah Blah 

 

[Ridenfool]

There have been a lot of lines at RHR that have disappeared or have been rerouted over the years due to erosion. I remember the "original" Black Trac that went straight downhill behind Water 1.  Subsequent attempts to create other fall line trails have all been retired and rerouted. I haven't been a part of that section's design, but it seems to be much better now than it has been in many years.

Good trail design must always take into consideration the nature of the surface in regard to erosion and water.  Building a sustainable trail is about how avoiding building something that requires a lot of ongoing maintenance is balanced with the fun factor.

Edited January 14, 2019 by Ridenfool

[Chief]

1 hour ago, rugger said:

I've finally caved and joined...what did I miss? 

Where you been? We were worried sick about you:)

[RedRider3141]

2 minutes ago, Chief said:

Where you been? We were worried sick about you:)

Speaking of AWOL, where's the Wookie and his fishy alter ego? What since he doesn't have an aquarium to sell he's tending to his kids/kids?

[Chief]

2 minutes ago, RedRider3141 said:

Speaking of AWOL, where's the Wookie and his fishy alter ego? What since he doesn't have an aquarium to sell he's tending to his kids/kids?

It appears he got what he needed from Mojo.

[cxagent]

6 hours ago, TheSarge said:

Still working on my coffee so the answer may be obvious ... but why can they ride wet trails and we can't?  Why does it destroy our trails but not theirs?

 

As First Blood said - difference in dirt and trails. Our "soil" is mostly clay which cakes on tires, ruts badly and then washes away. Once a "line of ruts" forms where water can channel flow, the water will start and continue cutting that same line until it hits something it can't wash away. Around Austin, that is typically the rock that is just below the surface. Now the flow spreads horizontally where it keep eating away at the edges of the rut. These typically just keep getting deeper and wider once they start. Unless some body does something to clear the ruts and route the water off the trail. You don't have to look very far to find a lot of people on this forum who spend lots of their own time doing that.

In other types of soils, the water is absorbed quickly and does not stick to tires or form ruts that remain until someone fixes them. Need an example? The front of Rocky Hill is mostly red clay. Trying to ride that while it is quickly cakes up your tires until they won't spin anymore. It also forms ruts that hold their shape especially after they dry. Conversely, the back parts of Rocky Hill are mostly sand. Those areas dry more quickly and rarely rut up. But because too much sand does not hold its shape, it does not take much water to cut an erosion path in the sand. If we could somehow mix the sand and the clay it would become a much better soil for trails. RPR is mostly granite sand (fine particles of granite) with a little bit of clay as a binder to hold the 'sand' together.

Another big problem in our area is the rocks are generally soft limestone. Water standing on the trail will soften the limestone to the point it becomes becomes soft like clay. When dry those rocks appear very hard. Once wet, the surface is more like a clay. Water flowing across the limestone will cut through it fairly quickly. Not as fast as through dirt, but much faster than thru most rocks. The next time you are Walnut or BCGB, look at the layers of rock the creek has cut through. Both of them show 30+ feet of water cut through the limestone until the water hit a hard enough layer of limestone that it slows the erosion.

 

Edited January 14, 2019 by cxagent
Added pictures

[cxagent]

19 hours ago, Tree Magnet said:

I did a 12 hour race at Rocky Hill many years ago (2008?) and it rained like crazy and turned the course into a soupy hell.  Since it was a race on private land, we kept racing in hub deep mud.  They shortened the race to 8 hours and it was still a nightmare.  I'd say that the race was sponsored by a bike shop due to the number of bottom brackets and drive train parts that we all ended up having to replace.  I'm not sure that the course ever fully recovered from that.  

Most races have to be planned months if not years in advance. You have no idea what the weather will be. People travel from all over to race. (remember the Cyclocross Nationals at Zilker?) Most races have to be held rain or shine unless it is a clear safety issue. After such a race somebody has to go clean up the mess created by racing on wet trails. Usually that is part of the agreement between the land owner and the race organizer.

Edited January 15, 2019 by cxagent
corrected typo

[TheSarge]

8 minutes ago, cxagent said:

<deleted write-up of soil and erosion issues>

Thanks for taking the time to write that up.  Very interesting and informative.

 

[First-Blood]

Thanks Kent. I'm copying and pasting this write up when needed. Well said.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Tree Magnet]

33 minutes ago, cxagent said:

After such a race somebody has to go clean up the mess created by racing on wet trails. Usually that is part of the agreement between the land owner and the race organizer.

Having seen the amount of effort and man power it takes to fix a single rut in a muddy trail, I suspect that the race organizers can't or don't go in an fix the mess created.  I remember trying to ride RHR after a Spartan race or something had chewed up Fat Chucks.  There were shoes buried in mud and post holes all over the place.  There is no way that was getting repaired by anything less than bulldozer or a CCC crew and many, many hours of effort.  

[Chongo Loco]

Private landowners tend to sign off on the rain or shine policy. Many depend on that gate fee from races to cover their property taxes, insurance, etc. Big consequences for a working ranch. Public property, not necessarily.

Tyler State Park used to be a TMBRA race venue 20 yrs ago-ish but the rangers close the trails when wet year round. So it’s a non-starter for TMBRA. I skipped the attempt they had at a nearby venue on a MX course. Didn’t go over well and only lasted 1-2 yrs. IIRC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fontarin]

18 minutes ago, Chongo Loco said:

Private landowners tend to sign off on the rain or shine policy. Many depend on that gate fee from races to cover their property taxes, insurance, etc. Big consequences for a working ranch. Public property, not necessarily.

Tyler State Park used to be a TMBRA race venue 20 yrs ago-ish but the rangers close the trails when wet year round. So it’s a non-starter for TMBRA. I skipped the attempt they had at a nearby venue on a MX course. Didn’t go over well and only lasted 1-2 yrs. IIRC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

They were still doing Tyler SP up until about 4-5 years ago, then the park changed hands and the new owner did not want the group up in Tyler doing any trailwork and there were some other issues.  Dunno what happened in the end, but I rode there 2 years ago and it was still in decent condition.

Edited January 14, 2019 by fontarin

[cxagent]

17 hours ago, Tree Magnet said:

Having seen the amount of effort and man power it takes to fix a single rut in a muddy trail, I suspect that the race organizers can't or don't go in an fix the mess created.  I remember trying to ride RHR after a Spartan race or something had chewed up Fat Chucks.  There were shoes buried in mud and post holes all over the place.  There is no way that was getting repaired by anything less than bulldozer or a CCC crew and many, many hours of effort.  

I was not part of the Cyclocross Nationals so I cannot confirm this to be fact - but I will spout off anyway. I heard there was a $100,000 insurance policy (or bond) to fix any damage. That was required by the City as a condition of allowing the race. Anybody in the construction industry is familiar with such a thing. They are required on most projects and absolutely required on all government projects. Google "performance bond".

[Tree Magnet]

20 hours ago, RedRider3141 said:

Speaking of AWOL, where's the Wookie and his fishy alter ego? What since he doesn't have an aquarium to sell he's tending to his kids/kids?

I vote that we should make Wookie some sort of moderator so he feels obligated to keep us all from turning on each other.  Maybe he needs some sort of responsibility before he opts to join the conversation?

[Morealice]

1 hour ago, Tree Magnet said:

I vote that we should make Wookie some sort of moderator so he feels obligated to keep us all from turning on each other.  Maybe he needs some sort of responsibility before he opts to join the conversation?

Or you could allow the man to do as he pleases?

[TheX]

1 hour ago, Morealice said:

Or you could allow the man to do as he pleases?

'murica!

[TheSarge]

While everyone on the R&I thread is discussing the best way to ride trails that are too wet to ride, can anyone report on Brushy conditions?  I'm thinking Deception should at least be good to go.

 

[schoolie]

Just now, TheSarge said:

While everyone on the R&I thread is discussing the best way to ride trails that are too wet to ride, can anyone report on Brushy conditions?  I'm thinking Deception should at least be good to go.

 

Double down is good to go, the rocks aren't even very slick. There are mud holes on picnic visible from the Swag bailout, but I didn't venture further.

[CBaron]

7 minutes ago, schoolie said:

Double down is good to go, the rocks aren't even very slick. There are mud holes on picnic visible from the Swag bailout, but I didn't venture further.

I was just coming here to ask about this.  THANKS.

So can I assume that 1/4 notch is also good to go?  I'd like to do a lap or so of Deception proper this evening.

-CJB