Brushy Creek

[RidingAgain]

Thing is, some riders will not see it as being any wider than what they find on other trails... Walnut Creek for instance.

How do you get riders to know the difference between acceptable wide trails and unacceptable wide trails.

So what's the correct trail width...

Edited January 17, 2019 by RidingAgain

[RidingAgain]

And then you have riders doing this kind of stuff... And everyone giving them "WOOHOO" and high fives... But they weren't sticking to "...the trail..."...

 

Edited January 17, 2019 by RidingAgain

[trailrider77]

I think the idea of putting large rocks that mark the original trail width boundaries for the really soft rutted spots has merit.


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[Ridenfool]

22 minutes ago, trailrider77 said:

I think the idea of putting large rocks that mark the original trail width boundaries for the really soft rutted spots has merit.


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A thought. How about putting said rocks in as the trail surface at those places instead.

If you are there working with large rocks anyway why not armor the trail?

[Tree Magnet]

7 minutes ago, Ridenfool said:

A thought. How about putting said rocks in as the trail surface at those places instead.

Because that would impede the electric scooters.

[rugger]

Thanks for the love and concern for your trails. No, really. 

Lining the trail with rocks or logs is the last thing you want to do with issues like this. Even if you think you've left room for water to drain, it will be captured by the rocks. Lining the trail also gives a very 'artificial' look IMO. To address this you 'drag' the widened bits back to the center and pack it down. Ideally with a slight raised bit of tread. We can try to transplant some grasses from adjacent areas to the sides of the widened stuff, but they usually just die. 

As for armor, we prefer to reserve that for areas that are wet/soggy for extended periods of time, typically the dry creek bed areas. Like lining the trail with rocks, extraneous armoring looks 'artificial', unless it's at a low crossing or true wetland situation like Candyland (Gum Drop and Snow White). 

I will schedule a work day very soon when it's drier but moist enough to mold and pack. It's really just the entrance and first 1/4 mile of 1/4 Notch that needs attn and a little bit on the beginning of Picnic. 

Edited January 17, 2019 by rugger

[GreenMTBrider]

2 minutes ago, rugger said:

I will schedule a work day very soon when it's drier but moist enough to mold and pack. It's really just the entrance and first 1/4 mile of 1/4 Notch that needs attn and a little bit on the beginning of Picnic. 

I agree that the entrance needs work, but there are 9 wide, rutted sections throughout 1/4 Notch that should be addressed. In fact some of the more deeply rutted stuff is just before the bailout at the start of Double Down. 

[rugger]

15 minutes ago, GreenMTBrider said:

I agree that the entrance needs work, but there are 9 wide, rutted sections throughout 1/4 Notch that should be addressed. In fact some of the more deeply rutted stuff is just before the bailout at the start of Double Down. 

Thanks for the update with the pics and map you sent. I'll get in there and check everything out. 

[Cafeend]

So when there are posted meetups for places like Brushy , like the Thursday night rides like tonight, can it be communicated to them to maybe not do their scheduled meetup?
I would like to assume that whoever was responsible would cancel or postpone according to conditions.
But looking at pretty blue skies out my window , I can bet they will have a good turnout there tonight and thrash the trails more so.


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[rugger]

16 minutes ago, Cafeend said:

So when there are posted meetups for places like Brushy , like the Thursday night rides like tonight, can it be communicated to them to maybe not do their scheduled meetup?
I would like to assume that whoever was responsible would cancel or postpone according to conditions.
But looking at pretty blue skies out my window , I can bet they will have a good turnout there tonight and thrash the trails more so.


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Sound good in principal, but frankly, I am not going to monitor the various meetup, facebook, whatever groups. The ride caller/host should know the conditions of the trail and call the ride off when the conditions warrant. The Dead Sailor group has members that know the trail well enough (have helped trail maintenance and improvements) and is actually organized by a former ARR VP I believe...so they really should know when to cancel. That said, I DID comment on the DS group ride that it's too wet and should be cancelled. I know AJ and Jenny called off the Wed night Peddler shop ride due to trail conditions.

If we're lucky they will just trash Peddler's Pass. 

[fontarin]

Yeah, people should know when to cancel.  I had a group ride out there scheduled to do deception tonight and called it off - it was very obvious it was going to be too wet.

[First-Blood]

The Dallas club has signage at each trailhead that notes if the trail is open or closed to the public with large signage and posts conditions continuously on DORBA.org.  Would be difficult at trails like WC and Brushy, but might be worth a thought.

Aren't most their trails in a park that's just for trails? I thought they literally have physical parking access gates they open and close. No?

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[Shinerider]

Aren't most their trails in a park that's just for trails? I thought they literally have physical parking access gates they open and close. No?

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No. The trail that I hit when I'm at the in laws (rowlett creek), the parking lot was open , but the wooden sign at the trail head noted that the trails were closed.

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[AntonioGG]

2 hours ago, Shinerider said:

No. The trail that I hit when I'm at the in laws (rowlett creek), 
 

That was my old home trail.  It was boring then.

[Shinerider]

10 minutes ago, AntonioGG said:

That was my old home trail.  It was boring then.

I think its a fun cruise on the singlespeed without having to worry about technical features.

[cxagent]

21 hours ago, rugger said:

Sound good in principal, but frankly, I am not going to monitor the various meetup, facebook, whatever groups. The ride caller/host should know the conditions of the trail and call the ride off when the conditions warrant. The Dead Sailor group has members that know the trail well enough (have helped trail maintenance and improvements) and is actually organized by a former ARR VP I believe...so they really should know when to cancel. That said, I DID comment on the DS group ride that it's too wet and should be cancelled. I know AJ and Jenny called off the Wed night Peddler shop ride due to trail conditions.

If we're lucky they will just trash Peddler's Pass. 

There is a constant conflict between what one person/group thinks is appropriate and what another person/group thinks is appropriate. There will always be those conflicts.

It was my belief / hope that as people saw the consequences of their actions, they would learn and change their decisions appropriately. I know. I know. How silly and naive I was. On multiple trails the exact things I warned would happen - are happening right now. I find this very frustrating.

My "solution" was to try to open new trails as fast as existing trails were closed. The trouble with that approach was discussed recently. Most new trails are required by the land owner to be 'beginner friendly'. The effect was losing more technical trails to closure and trying to replace them with 'beginner friendly' trails. That was an unintended and unexpected consequence of trying to work with both the land owner and the mtb public.

Edited January 18, 2019 by cxagent

[RidingAgain]

2 hours ago, cxagent said:

There is a constant conflict between what one person/group thinks is appropriate and what another person/group thinks is appropriate. There will always be those conflicts.

It was my belief / hope that as people saw the consequences of their actions, they would learn and change their decisions appropriately. I know. I know. How silly and naive I was. On multiple trails the exact things I warned would happen - are happening right now. I find this very frustrating.

My "solution" was to try to open new trails as fast as existing trails were closed. The trouble with that approach was discussed recently. Most new trails are required by the land owner to be 'beginner friendly'. The effect was losing more technical trails to closure and trying to replace them with 'beginner friendly' trails. That was an unintended and unexpected consequence of trying to work with both the land owner and the mtb public.

 

 

 

And this speaks to my earlier comment...

Here it is again...

"Thing is, some riders will not see it as being any wider than what they find on other trails... Walnut Creek for instance.

How do you get riders to know the difference between acceptable wide trails and unacceptable wide trails.

So what's the correct trail width..."

As I said in another thread...

Proverbs 29:18... "Where there is no vision, people cast of restraint.

Now some folk may not be big on scripture... But the above is absolutely applicable to normal human living.

When people do not have clarity of purpose... People tend do whatever they want.

What is mountain biking in Austin?

We know what mountain biking in Bentonville is... A source of local recreation, and economical development.

That's a clear vision.

And as such, the mountain biking community gets local support.

And sure... You might say that it's all about the Walmart dollars and influence. But Bentonville is not the only place that has tried to identify and institute a definite vision regarding mountain biking. 

The means by which Bentonville has gone about accomplishing what they have accomplished may not be how Austin goes about it (Hot Springs doesn't have Walmart backing but is trying to do something definite). But one of the keys to sucess is having a definite vision regarding what is trying to be accomplished, then getting all interested parties on board with it.

And how you treat your local trails will be one of the matters that will fall under the influence of this vision.

If anyone thinks that the Freeride512 organization doesn't have a definite vision regarding what they are doing, and have all related people on board with it... You're mistaken. I'm pretty sure the leadership knows exactly what it's about, and works according to it.
 

Edited January 18, 2019 by RidingAgain

[cxagent]

"What is the correct trail width???" What the land owner / land manager wants.

ARR starting building single track at Pedernales Falls State Park. The land manager decided it needed to be wide enough and smooth enough for them to use their Gator on it. We stopped building trail until the definition of "single track" was worked out.

LCRA wants to use some of their existing jeep road as trail. 10 to 15 feet wide is fine with them.

BCP wants trails to be narrow - a few feet at most. They would absolutely stop anything that breaks the tree canopy. That is the reason they want to keep trails narrow.

Most land owners will allow true single track. Narrow trails have little impact on vegetation, water flow, environment in general. They also limit speeds which the land manager sees as a problem. Most land owners balk when that single track starts to get wider. And Wider And WIDER. At some point the land owner / land manager decides something has to be done. If the trail can be restored to single track - most are happy. If the trail now has bypasses of bypasses of bypasses - many land owners decide they have to stop the damage by closing the trail.

So once again - what proper width is what the land owner or land manager approves.

[gotdurt]

19 hours ago, Shinerider said:

No. The trail that I hit when I'm at the in laws (rowlett creek), the parking lot was open , but the wooden sign at the trail head noted that the trails were closed.

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Same where I grew up riding in the Houston area, like Sam Houston NF, Ho Chi (Memorial Park), Cypresswood, etc.

Of course, like Brushy, there were multiple ways to access any of those that wouldn't be signed, but the vast majority of riders accessed them only from a couple of official trail heads/parking areas (the parking lots remained open, as they were multi-use, like ours). I would think that a sign at each end of the sports park parking areas and maybe one at the 183A bridge would suffice... just make them reversible; "the mountain bike trails are open"/ "the mountain bike trails are closed". The problem would be that in Brushy's case, unlike those mentioned above, since the parks employees have nothing to do with the trails, it would be our responsibility to stay on top of it.

[Shinerider]

That is exactly what was at the trailhead - a wooden sign that could be moved from open to closed.  But there are quite a few trailheads.  Maybe keep it to the ones that are more prone to get soggy.  Just thinking.

[rugger]

3 minutes ago, gotdurt said:

Same where I grew up riding in the Houston area, like Sam Houston NF, Ho Chi (Memorial Park), Cypresswood, etc.

Of course, like Brushy, there were multiple ways to access any of those that wouldn't be signed, but the vast majority of riders accessed them only from a couple of official trail heads/parking areas (the parking lots remained open, as they were multi-use, like ours). I would think that a sign at each end of the sports park parking areas and maybe one at the 183A bridge would suffice... just make them reversible; "the mountain bike trails are open"/ "the mountain bike trails are closed". The problem would be that in Brushy's case, unlike those mentioned above, since the parks employees have nothing to do with the trails, it would be our responsibility to stay on top of it.

Another issue is the parking lots - those are City of Cedar Park parks. Deception is not IN Cedar Park. It's in Austin and it's manager is Wilco. Parking lots would be the best places for the signs - for both trail stewards and users. By the time a user reaches the trail head they are probably 'committed' at least the stubborn irresponsible types. 

We could see about getting permission from Cedar Park to erect such signs. Yep, I said 'erect'.

[RedRider3141]

This but for a sign? Give keys to all of the trail stewards and trusted people. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=multi+owner+gate+lock&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj5uLKwm_jfAhVKbK0KHdQABeUQ_AUIDygC&biw=2133&bih=1210

[rugger]

1 minute ago, RedRider3141 said:

This but for a sign? Give keys to all of the trail stewards and trusted people. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=multi+owner+gate+lock&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj5uLKwm_jfAhVKbK0KHdQABeUQ_AUIDygC&biw=2133&bih=1210

It's easy enough to get a Master Lock with a whole bunch of keys. But yea, the flip sign would have a couple of eye bolts with a couple pad locks to secure "Open" or "Closed". 

I'll check with the county and cedar park. They damn sure won't pay for it, that'll be on me or ARR. (Signs and locks). 

[ATXZJ]

I got talked into going on a work trip with the wife last week and stayed in abilene. Discovered beforehand they had some trails to ride and figured i'd drag the bike along and put some miles in while she was in her meetings. The area is fenced with a locked gate that you have to contact the LBS and pay $10 before they'll give you the combo. When i called two days before, they said its currently raining and wont be dry by the time im there and wasn't allowing any entry.

https://www.mtbproject.com/trail/5673873/buck-creek-trail

 

I know this type of system probably isn't an option on multi-use places like BC but seems like slaughter creek preserve has figured out a way to keep (most) people off the trail when its wet. I'd be down to chip in a few bucks to get some sort of control on the damage being inflicted.

[Chief]

I believe the problem that we as conscientious riders face is that most of the offending riders do not belong to any local MTB community, therefor they are not aware of how riding wet trails effects/impacts the trail systems we have. We also face the constant inflow of people from different regions were riding wet trails may not have been an issue. Than there is the issue of entitled assholes who will do whatever they want whenever they want just because. Oh and lets not forget the riders on Walmart bikes who just don't know any better. This will always be a case of shoveling shit against the tide. I see trail cuts in many places there were never any before. I've blocked some of these multiple times only to see them reopened next time I ride. Unfortunately Brushy is slowly becoming the tangled nightmare that Walnut is. I don't really see any effective way to stop this. I saw a guy yesterday with a FS bike on the back of his grey Highlander pulling into the soccer field parking lot yesterday, I highly doubt he was going there to just ride the hike and bike.