Jump to content
IGNORED

Spider Mountain


Schrute

Recommended Posts

I found the critique to be good reading.  Is it worth $50 plus gas money yet is what I want to know. How many runs did you get in from when to when? Thanks


For me it was definitely worth the money for a day plus I rented a full face ($15) and bought a shirt ($30 or 35).

Lift wait times were a non issue even toward the end of the day the lines moved well and you get plenty of runs.. we could have done a lot more had our mechanical and physical gear held up a bit longer.

That said I wouldn’t go too frequently until there’s more variety and the dirt is in better shape.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Ridenfool said:

Some forward-thinking purveyors of products and/or services might see this as observations and feedback from their customers.

For years people riding at Rocky Hill have come to enjoy the trails with the attitude that because they pay for use that someone else should maintain the trails. It has always been a challenge to get volunteers there to help out. Most of RHR's business comes from Houston riders. When the occasional call for volunteer help goes out most who have shown up are coming from Austin. Moral of the story, the largest user group is also the least likely to pitch in to help with maintenance.

This is at a place that offers basic trails through the woods, totally unlike Spider Mountain who targets a specific user group with promise of lift access flow trails.

With a facility offering this and asking five times the price to ride there compared to other private riding areas, it doesn't seem all that far-fetched to expect that SpiderMtn have in place a plan to keep the trails at some minimum state of repair. I suspect their experience with other similar MTB resorts should pay off, though the trail surface here may be made of different stuff that requires another approach than what has worked for them elsewhere.

From personal experience I can whole-heartedly share how taking on the mantle of responsibility by volunteering to maintain trails that others pay to ride will significantly cut into the volunteers' riding time. Though there is much satisfaction to be had from the creative process, and pride to be taken in the work completed, and for those who can Zen out while doing trail maintenance it can be therapeutic. 

These "complaints" seem valid and based upon observable facts regarding the perception of value from a paying user's perspective and it would be foolish for any business to dismiss them out of hand.

 

My issue with RHR was that they once asked for volunteers to do trail work and then offered nothing in return. They might have offered something later after people complained but I was long gone from that conversation. 

Yes, if you charge me, you need to maintain the trails. If you ask me to maintain you need to be real clear up front about what I get in return for my work. I do free trail work on free trails, if I do trail work on a paid trail hen I expect they are going to comp a ride or do some5hing for the volunteers. 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, AustinBike said:

My issue with RHR was that they once asked for volunteers to do trail work and then offered nothing in return. They might have offered something later after people complained but I was long gone from that conversation. 

Yes, if you charge me, you need to maintain the trails. If you ask me to maintain you need to be real clear up front about what I get in return for my work. I do free trail work on free trails, if I do trail work on a paid trail hen I expect they are going to comp a ride or do some5hing for the volunteers. 

^^^^ This is true ^^^^

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let’s do the math real quick and see how this is going to work. Can $50 per person support a trail crew required to build and maintain enough trail?? Is it going to take volunteers to make this work??

To maintain the trails out there they need a full time trail building team of maybe 3 people? Let’s say they pay them $30k per year (no idea). That’s $90k in just trail support.

If they get 200 riders per weekend average for roughly half the year, that’s $260k. That’s leaves $170k to pay for all the remaining staff, lift, expenses, taxes, yada, yada. Obviously I have no idea if that’s enough but I can’t ride right now so I’m compelled to type something in about bikes. Damn weather.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Cafeend said:


Where are you coming up with $170?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

$50 lift ticket $20 gas $100 downhill rental. Shit I left out beer and bbq. Call it $190?  (this isn't for me btw, , y'all know I'm too cheap to rent a sled :P  but if'in I wanted)

Edited by Bamwa
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, AustinBike said:

My issue with RHR was that they once asked for volunteers to do trail work and then offered nothing in return. They might have offered something later after people complained but I was long gone from that conversation. 

Yes, if you charge me, you need to maintain the trails. If you ask me to maintain you need to be real clear up front about what I get in return for my work. I do free trail work on free trails, if I do trail work on a paid trail hen I expect they are going to comp a ride or do some5hing for the volunteers. 

I've been at RHR with others at volunteer work days where Grey cooked barbecue, provided beer, and gave volunteers instructions on how to redeem a free day pass next time, all in gratitude for their efforts.

My question would be who made the offer?

Did anyone bring it up with them after doing the work? This would constitute a conversation, which if it never happened might explain the disappointing outcome. (though there is something to be said about anyone managing something like this taking the steps to assure folks get their due.)

If what you relate happened at any venue, I could easily see how getting volunteers back for more would be a hard sell. Nobody likes feeling taken advantage of.

I agree that any private enterprise should not depend upon volunteer efforts from their clientele as an ongoing aspect of their business model without offering some sort of compensation such as free access passes or something similar.

Edited by Ridenfool
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Flat Rock Ranch charges for access and still garners great volunteer support. They have a standard deal where you ride for free on the day that you work, you get a free day for so many hours and can earn a year pass for another level of volunteer work. I've hit enough hours to earn a year pass before. The Dreissesses are more like family than a business that I'm working with.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Anita Handle said:

Flat Rock Ranch charges for access and still garners great volunteer support. They have a standard deal where you ride for free on the day that you work, you get a free day for so many hours and can earn a year pass for another level of volunteer work. I've hit enough hours to earn a year pass before. The Dreissesses are more like family than a business that I'm working with.

I was about to add to my post above some praise of Jimmy's attention to detail and being directly involved in all operations as a Sterling example of how it should be done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

$50 lift ticket $20 gas $100 downhill rental. Shit I left out beer and bbq. Call it $190?  (this isn't for me btw, , y'all know I'm too cheap to rent a sled [emoji14]  but if'in I wanted)
Touche'
I know, you were asking for a friend.
And $2.50 for a coffee from Mojo on the way home.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Anita Handle said:

Flat Rock Ranch charges for access and still garners great volunteer support. They have a standard deal where you ride for free on the day that you work, you get a free day for so many hours and can earn a year pass for another level of volunteer work. I've hit enough hours to earn a year pass before. The Dreissesses are more like family than a business that I'm working with.

+1 for this. I went out to FRR the weekend befor this year's zombie goat enduro to build trail for kodiak tough and FRR. i stayed out there in a cabin for 3 days straight, digging all day every day that weekend. the next weekend at the enduro event I ran into the owner again, and during our conversation I mentioned to him that I had been there the entire weekend before digging. he waived my camping fee and gave me an annual pass for 2019. it was a nice little surprise!

 

with this being said, I'm happy to trade day passes or whatever at Cat Mtn to anyone who would like to help me dig. FR512 liability waiver still required

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, Anita Handle said:

BUT FOR THE RECORD, I'm cool if they don't accept volunteer help with maintaining the safety and integrity of the ski lift...

That reminds me, Greg and I were really surprised that the chairs didn't have safety bars... seems like a serious liability, especially with kids... then on the last ride up I looked over at a passing chair and saw that they actually do have the bars, so I looked up and there it was... I just assumed that since no one was using them, they weren't there, in fact some parks will pull the bars down for you after you sit down. So, if you take kids, the bars are there, just a little harder to reach than other chairs I've been on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Tree Magnet said:

Let’s do the math real quick and see how this is going to work. Can $50 per person support a trail crew required to build and maintain enough trail?? Is it going to take volunteers to make this work??

To maintain the trails out there they need a full time trail building team of maybe 3 people? Let’s say they pay them $30k per year (no idea). That’s $90k in just trail support.

If they get 200 riders per weekend average for roughly half the year, that’s $260k. That’s leaves $170k to pay for all the remaining staff, lift, expenses, taxes, yada, yada. Obviously I have no idea if that’s enough but I can’t ride right now so I’m compelled to type something in about bikes. Damn weather.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here is the bottom line on this:

If your business requires unpaid work from your customers in order to maintain financial viability, then you don't have a problem with trail work, you have a problem with your business plan. I've talked to dozens of companies that have business plans that include "and then this miracle happens" and that is how they get to profitability down the road. The problem is the miracle never happens. 

Instead of budgeting the cash for 3 trail builders they could instead start a program where you can do trail work and get free comp passes. 4 hours of building trail gets you a one day pass. This business has high fixed costs, high semi-variable operational costs (i.e. opening the doors and running things even if nobody shows up) and almost non-existent variable costs (i.e. one more riding showing up this weekend literally costs them almost nothing.) With a program like that you could get trails built AND preserve your capital for running the business. But, instead they are trying to sell $200 season passes that ran through mid April. 

This is a marketing and PR problem, if they had a "trail crew" program in place and were very vocal about it they would be getting positive headlines from the community now. And while you're at it, throw in an occasional "hooky Friday" and open the trails only to the build crews as an added bonus. Make them feel wanted. Way better than tying up capital on building trails today.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Ridenfool said:

I've been at RHR with others at volunteer work days where Grey cooked barbecue, provided beer, and gave volunteers instructions on how to redeem a free day pass next time, all in gratitude for their efforts.

My question would be who made the offer?

Did anyone bring it up with them after doing the work? This would constitute a conversation, which if it never happened might explain the disappointing outcome. (though there is something to be said about anyone managing something like this taking the steps to assure folks get their due.)

If what you relate happened at any venue, I could easily see how getting volunteers back for more would be a hard sell. Nobody likes feeling taken advantage of.

I agree that any private enterprise should not depend upon volunteer efforts from their clientele as an ongoing aspect of their business model without offering some sort of compensation such as free access passes or something similar.

This was quite some time ago, probably 10+ years ago. I'd have to dig on mojo to find the approximate details and I don't want to have to clean all of the spam off me when I am done. I was planning to go, then dropped when I heard we got nothing, not even a future comp ride. If memory serves correctly, the situation was eventually rectified (not sure if it was before or after the work was done.)

My point was that "spend your time helping build the trails you ride" is a compelling value proposition and "spend your time building my trails so I can charge you to ride them" is not as compelling.

I would have gladly put in a few hours of trail work in exchange for a 1-day pass (essentially meaning that I work at way less than minimum wage) -  may seem like weird personal economics, but in reality it is about principle.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, I watch one spider mountain video and my youtube is flooded with them now. Couple observations:

Is recording your ride, particularly with a chest gimbal just the new endrobro thing? Every youtuber seemed to be riding with 2-4 guys also with chest gimbals. Do they travel in packs? Do they each have a channel?

People seem to have the same respect for MTB trail ratings as they do on the ski slopes. Sliding over stuff rear brake locked on a double black diamond must be like the guys shaving the tops of moguls on the ski slopes.

Itsy Bitsy seems like it would be way more interesting going up. 

All the footage has me like nah, maybe next year when there is more out there.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Anita Handle said:

Flat Rock Ranch charges for access and still garners great volunteer support. They have a standard deal where you ride for free on the day that you work, you get a free day for so many hours and can earn a year pass for another level of volunteer work. I've hit enough hours to earn a year pass before. The Dreissesses are more like family than a business that I'm working with.

This is exactly how it should be done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Mattlikesbikes said:

So, I watch one spider mountain video and my youtube is flooded with them now. Couple observations:

Is recording your ride, particularly with a chest gimbal just the new endrobro thing? Every youtuber seemed to be riding with 2-4 guys also with chest gimbals. Do they travel in packs? Do they each have a channel?

I record for many reasons: memories (who knows when I'll get back, and we had a good time... and fun crashes!), studying lines and mistakes, catching things you didn't notice while riding, and a preview for those that are interested in going (I look for vids all the time, for this purpose). As for previews, not everyone can relate to a trail by watching a preview at a pro's speed, or someone who is reeeallly slow... and others can; for a given trail, I'll look at faster riders, and riders like me, and learn the various potential lines, hazards, etc.

1 minute ago, Mattlikesbikes said:

People seem to have the same respect for MTB trail ratings as they do on the ski slopes. Sliding over stuff rear brake locked on a double black diamond must be like the guys shaving the tops of moguls on the ski slopes

Haha, go ride Stinger/Rotor smoke and see how steep it really is (it doesn't look nearly as steep as it is, but sliding is always an indicator)... when it's dry and dusty, you have no choice but to slide; it's either slide or roll, nothing in between... and sooo much fun.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, gotdurt said:

Haha, go ride Stinger/Rotor smoke and see how steep it really is (it doesn't look nearly as steep as it is, but sliding is always an indicator)... when it's dry and dusty, you have no choice but to slide; it's either slide or roll, nothing in between... and sooo much fun.

I brake steer like one should so I will clarify, one of the videos showed a guy who clearly should not have gone down Stinger, just based on how many times he was not in control going down and the couple of crashes. JUST like the guys sking the double blacks and just destroying the slope but saying later to the other bros " I ski double black"

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mattlikesbikes said:

I brake steer like one should so I will clarify, one of the videos showed a guy who clearly should not have gone down Stinger, just based on how many times he was not in control going down and the couple of crashes. JUST like the guys sking the double blacks and just destroying the slope but saying later to the other bros " I ski double black"

There is a fine line between "I went down (insert Black trail here)" and "I went down ON (insert Black trail here)." To some it may be one and the same. :classic_rolleyes:

Edited by Ridenfool
  • Like 1
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...