New bike time...a deep dive

[Barry]

On the old site, one of you mojoans said something to the effect of, "wanting a new bike is like getting hungry on a ride. Once you notice, it's too late to do anything about it." So now it's all about deciding what I want.

• As close as possible to the Spitfire's geometry. Long, slack and low, except for...
• A much shorter chainstay than the Spitfire's 17.2. 16.5 is perfect, and I'm not considering anything over 16.8.
• Carbon fiber: I've broken 11 aluminum frames and even a steel frame. So it is time to try something different.
• Lifetime warranty...or at least 4+ years. This 2 year business doesn't cut it. And a decent crash replacement program would be nice too. 
• Full suspension trail bike. So 120-150mm. My joints, back and more than 4k miles of rocky trails demand it of me. I love hard tails and even rigid bikes, but I'm not going to put thousands of miles per year on one. 
• 27.5. I don't hate 29ers like I used to--they've come a long way. But my primary trail bike is going to be 27.5. 
• ...with room for mid-fat tires up to 2.8. Typically I'll run 2.35-2.5, but the mid-fat option is nice for some locations. 

So here is my big damn list of bike geometry numbers and notes: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1f86kDOByxic1CTz76IQXJNSw_lrQ3E-c2BbVfJqGeCM/edit?usp=sharing 

On the list, the magenta color is a disqualifying geometry number, so any bike with magenta has likely fallen off my list of possibilities. The only 3 carbon fiber bikes that didn't have disqualifying numbers are the new SC 5010, the Rocky Mtn Thunderbolt, and the fairly obscure Cube Stereo. I'm pretty sure I can build the 5010 to just over 27lbs. 

So what am I missing? What obvious bike have I left off my list? What geometry number or detail am I obsessing over that just wrong for your preference. Let me know!

 

 

[eporter68]

I love my 2018 5010cc.

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[ATXZJ]

IMHO, this is a helluva deal. Warranty and geo is in the ballpark

https://intensecycles.com/collections/2017-bikes/products/2017-recluse-nm-frame-shock

[Barry]

The Recluse was really close, but rejected for bbh. It seems slightly too high for my preferences.

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[AustinBike]

As a person who overthinks everything, my recommendation is that riding the bikes is sooooo much better than looking at geometry numbers. For instance, a 17" chainstay vs. a 17.5" chain stay will probably not be noticed because there is a degree of difference in the head angle, yada, yada, yada.

When I go looking for a bike (and I am now), I start with some really high level things (warranty, price, etc.) and then see what drops into the bucket. My goal is to get out to as many demos and ride the bikes because if I obsess on the numbers I will never get off the dime and make the purchase.

Geometry, to me, is something that you "feel" when you ride the bike. It's like wine. I drink it but I don't know shit about it. However, when I get a bad one, I know.

All of that being said, my short list right now (all carbon) are Santa Cruz (Tallboy and Hightower), Pivot (Mach 429) and other options in those ranges. I'm a retiree on a fixed income, so some of the nice carbon options out there do nit fit my budget unfortunately. Like you, I have broken ~8 frames, so warranty is critical.

[ATXZJ]

2 minutes ago, Barry said:

The Recluse was really close, but rejected for bbh. It seems slightly too high for my preferences.

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Crap, didnt catch that but 13.5 isnt too bad. What height are you looking for?

[Barry]

1 minute ago, ATXZJ said:

Crap, didnt catch that but 13.5 isnt too bad. What height are you looking for?

13.5 isn't crazy-town, especially for a 140mm travel bike. But my Spitfire is 140mm with a 13.1 bb, and I really don't want to go much higher. My perfect bike is listed on the spreadsheet, including tolerances. For bbh I've called it 13" +0.3 / -0.2. 

 

[Barry]

47 minutes ago, AustinBike said:

For instance, a 17" chainstay vs. a 17.5" chain stay will probably not be noticed because there is a degree of difference in the head angle, yada, yada, yada.

I agree that much of it seems like minutia, but in my opinion a 0.5" chainstay difference is huge, and you can (or I can) feel it when poping the front end up 200 times in a ride. Try poping up the front end of a bike with a 16.5  v/s a 17.5 chainstay without a pedal kick to see what I mean. Then do it for 4000 miles. I know you brought up chainstay as a for instance and your point applies to all geometry particulars, but all of my preferences are based on a lot of bikes I've ridden over the years.

Irrespective, your point about demoing bikes is well taken, and indeed I plan to do so. But my spreadsheet will keep me from wasting my time on things that are not even close to my preferences, like a Norco Sight, or a Yeti SB5, for example. And my spreadsheet has "disqualified" (for example) the Intense Recluse, but at least it is close, so if I get a decent chance, I'll demo one. 

 

47 minutes ago, AustinBike said:

It's like wine. I drink it but I don't know shit about it.

We're different there. For one, whisky, and two, I like to know everything possible about it. If I don't like one, I need to understand why. Same way with bikes. 

 

59 minutes ago, AustinBike said:

All of that being said, my short list right now (all carbon) are Santa Cruz (Tallboy and Hightower), Pivot (Mach 429)

@Jessica demoed the Hightower and the Pivot 429 Trail, and very much preferred the Hightower. She didn't try the Tallboy because she wanted the option to run 27.5x3.0 tires, but she is running 29x2.35 on it now and may not ever go back. For her preferences, it's an amazing bike.

[CBaron]

1 hour ago, Barry said:

The Recluse was really close, but rejected for bbh. It seems slightly too high for my preferences.

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Of course its been years since I sold Intense bicycles.  But historically they have been prone to being a little more flexy and chewing through bearings much more quickly.  My personal bike was an Intense Spider 29 and it needed bearing replacement 1x per yr minimum and I didn't even get close to the level of mileage you put on bikes.  On the flip side, I never really noticed the additional frame flex.  I'ev always been a pretty smooth rider and have not been sensitive to that kind of thing.

If you do end up pursuing this bike a bit further it might be worthwhile to get Seth's take on Intense.  He's a much bigger guy than myself and puts them through their paces.

-CJB

[ATXZJ]

1 hour ago, Barry said:

13.5 isn't crazy-town, especially for a 140mm travel bike. But my Spitfire is 140mm with a 13.1 bb, and I really don't want to go much higher. My perfect bike is listed on the spreadsheet, including tolerances. For bbh I've called it 13" +0.3 / -0.2. 

 

Offset shock bushings? No offense but I gotta tap out when it comes to spreadsheets and bikes. Get it close, ride it. Gotta have that soul.

5010

SB5

Troy

Calling

Scout (when they make a carbon)

 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2018 by ATXZJ

[Barry]

Don't think I haven't considered offset bushings and anglesets and  27.5 tires on 29ers & plus bikes...

[throet]

35 minutes ago, ATXZJ said:

Scout (when they make a carbon)

Was thinking the same thing given his preferences. They really should deliver that bike in a carbon frame.  

[throet]

That Thunderbolt definitely looks worthy of consideration. Anybody carry the RM brand around here? 

[ATXZJ]

2 minutes ago, throet said:

That Thunderbolt definitely looks worthy of consideration. Anybody carry the RM brand around here? 

Bike world on Lamar / Riverside I think

[Barry]

40 minutes ago, ATXZJ said:

No offense but I gotta tap out when it comes to spreadsheets and bikes. Get it close, ride it. Gotta have that soul.

The spreadsheet is about the fact that there are a shit-ton of 27.5 trail bikes out there. I'm trying to get close. Or at least narrow down the field. 

 

Just now, throet said:

Was thinking the same thing given his preferences. They really should deliver that bike in a carbon frame.  

The 2017 Scout in carbon is still available as a new bike. Unfortunately that was before the most recent geometry update. I came really close to buying one a few months ago when I last broke the Spitfire. 

 

https://www.evo.com/outlet/mountain/transition-scout-carbon-gx-evo-complete-bike?image=135238/571278/transition-scout-carbon-gx-evo-complete-mountain-bike-2017-gravel-grey.jpg&pt_source=googleads&pt_medium=cpc&pt_campaign=GSC_Bike_Complete&pt_adgroup=PLA_Bike_Completes&gclid=CjwKCAiAu_LgBRBdEiwAkovNsMGowlHBhxEoGAMbwZ9c-vYd99aFwabvKFva9AJWh3Q715ZQznBUcRoCOJcQAvD_BwE

 

[ATXZJ]

4 minutes ago, Barry said:

The spreadsheet is about the fact that there are a shit-ton of 27.5 trail bikes out there. I'm trying to get close. Or at least narrow down the field. 

 

 

Totally makes sense. Im having our senior do this for her college applications

Edited December 21, 2018 by ATXZJ

[kpomtb]

DeVinci and Ibis demos available at Velorangutan in South Austin.

[TheX]

37 minutes ago, kpomtb said:

DeVinci and Ibis demos available at Velorangutan in South Austin.

Wes is a great guy, known him for a LONG time.

[Barry]

5 hours ago, kpomtb said:

DeVinci and Ibis demos available at Velorangutan in South Austin.

 

I demoed an HD3 for 2 days while visiting Rochester last summer. Indeed this is the bike that got me on my short cs kick. The ease with which you can pop up the front end is just fun. But the bike is steeper and higher than a bike I want to put 3k offroad miles per year on. And the cs and bbh on the HD4 = nope.

 

The Troy is also very close with nearly identical geometry to the HD3. But it appears to weigh more than a pound more than its contemporaries. 

[fontarin]

Short chainstays are indeed fun - I really like my Canfield Riot w/ 14.2ish chainstays (it's a 29er and alu tho).    Pretty sure Bike World had a closeout Thunderbolt when i was in there, but I don't remember what size it was.   Was pretty nicely discounted though.

The SC 5010 is a great bike too and SC's customer service is top notch.  

[ATXZJ]

The new bible posted. Worst a watch

 

 

[Seths Pool]

On 12/21/2018 at 4:09 PM, CBaron said:

Of course its been years since I sold Intense bicycles.  But historically they have been prone to being a little more flexy and chewing through bearings much more quickly.  My personal bike was an Intense Spider 29 and it needed bearing replacement 1x per yr minimum and I didn't even get close to the level of mileage you put on bikes.  On the flip side, I never really noticed the additional frame flex.  I'ev always been a pretty smooth rider and have not been sensitive to that kind of thing.

If you do end up pursuing this bike a bit further it might be worthwhile to get Seth's take on Intense.  He's a much bigger guy than myself and puts them through their paces.

-CJB

pre-2017 intense frames had an issue mainly with the non-drive-side upper linkage/swing arm bolt backing itself out, and they all seemed to be super sensitive to the pivot bolts being perfectly torqued to spec, my 2016 carbine was a creaking nightmare.

but they completely re did the pivot/linkage design and now use expander bolts which seems to have fixed all of those issues.

[TheX]

Creaking of ANY parts drive me insane.