Ridenfool Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Seths Pool said: I dont understand your response. what are you saying exactly? are you saying the opposite of what I said in that the majority of riders ride flats? I'm saying that racers are a very small percentage of the overall mountain biking community. Maybe 2%, if that, are racers. The majority of people who ride mountain bikes from beginners to occasional recreational riders to those avid riders performing at levels that span intermediate and expert, and who do not race are riding flats of some sort. That is what I'm saying. Edited January 10, 2019 by Ridenfool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 I'd say that well over half of riders that I run into are on flats. But I'm old and slow so.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonioGG Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 15 minutes ago, The Tip said: Nope. The REAL question? This: That reminds me of that other forum's thread "who would you like to ride with?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridenfool Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, The Tip said: Nope. The REAL question? This: This Edited January 10, 2019 by Ridenfool 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 A couple of reasons pro tour road riders use clipless are for a more round pedal stroke which increases efficiency and saves energy for the long power stretches needed in road racing. Also when climbing, I'm not implying that the upstroke produces power when seated but when you're out of the saddle climbing that's when you can pull on the upstroke which engages different muscles than when seated. Physically we aren't built to produce much power on the up stroke when pedaling. Think about your arm strength when lifting weights you can't curl as much weight as you bench press same goes for legs, basically the same movement. Clipless on a mountain bike just isn't as effective as on a road bike because we generally don't spin at high cadences for long stretches. I'm not saying that it's good or bad or right or wrong it's just personal preference. I rode road bikes for most of my life either with toe clips or clipless pedals. When I started MTB I tried clipless but it just wasn't the same as road. I actually felt less connected to the pedal due to the fact that clipless pedals have a degree of float to help protect your knees. After riding grippy flats with grippy shoes I realized I don't lose that much power through the entire stroke and it felt more comfortable to me. Clipless are a benefit in some situations such as really rough sections at speed but don't really help you develop good technique for MTB such as bunny hopping or learning to keep your heels down to weight your pedals. Let's all remember heavy feet light hands. This is just my personal opinion. You guys can ride whatever you want. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotdurt Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 53 minutes ago, The Tip said: Nope. The REAL question? This: Barbara Eden. man... not even close! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXZJ Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 38 minutes ago, gotdurt said: Barbara Eden. man... not even close! And with that....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anita Handle Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Ridenfool said: I'm saying that racers are a very small percentage of the overall mountain biking community. Maybe 2%, if that, are racers. The majority of people who ride mountain bikes from beginners to occasional recreational riders to those avid riders performing at levels that span intermediate and expert, and who do not race are riding flats of some sort. That is what I'm saying. 2 hours ago, TheX said: I'd say that well over half of riders that I run into are on flats. But I'm old and slow so.... That's an interesting observation. I'd guess that of the people I know and run into probably 10% ride flats, at most. Some go back and forth. I can't tell if one of us has a really bad anecdotal estimate of what people are using or if we run in different circles. Most of my friends are average type riders. Not elite racers, not super huckers. Just "bikers". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 52 minutes ago, Anita Handle said: That's an interesting observation. I'd guess that of the people I know and run into probably 10% ride flats, at most. Some go back and forth. I can't tell if one of us has a really bad anecdotal estimate of what people are using or if we run in different circles. Most of my friends are average type riders. Not elite racers, not super huckers. Just "bikers". To be fair, I ride alone most of the time and only meet people randomly. I probably notice flats more since I started using them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridenfool Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) Likewise to TheX, I ride mostly solo, and I haven't paid much attention to what others are using. I rode clipless for at least two decades before trying (New and Improved) flats and liking them so well I've no desire to go back to clipless. To further the list of links to consider, here's another one from BikeJames that may be particularly interesting to racers, as the test was conducted on the course in Italy on which Sam Hill won 2nd, riding on flats ... https://www.bikejames.com/strength/more-proof-that-flats-are-better-than-clipless-pedals/ I particularly liked the bits regarding the rampant denial experienced by the clipless advocates who were the subjects of the tests that demonstrated flats performed better for them, specifically. Fortunately we don't have any of that going on here. Edited January 10, 2019 by Ridenfool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cafeend Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Nope. The REAL question? This: That's easy.. I'd take the genie over the witch any daySent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 29 minutes ago, Cafeend said: That's easy.. I'd take the genie over the witch any day Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk Some genie on witch action please. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddbrider Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 The problem with all the "studies" I've seen linked in this thread is that they are inherently flawed. The people doing them obviously know bikes and are good riders, but their "research" is biased in so many ways that it makes it impossible to draw meaningful conclusions. Order effect is a big one. In the video referenced in the bikejames.com article a few posts up, flats won by 8 seconds. Well, how do we know the rider wouldn't have been 8 seconds faster (or more) on the second run clipped in? We don't, because you can't account for this bias with one rider doing two runs. That's just one example of flaws in these studies. They could do a lot of things to try and eliminate biases and make these more "scientific" (to use their terms), but in the end it's still not going to settle the argument. To really test this theory, you'd need lots of participants in a very controlled environment and you'd need to vary (and randomize) the order in which the different conditions (flats vs. clipless) were measured. It's probably not feasible or practical to set up this type of experiment, especially when it really boils down to personal preference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddbrider Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, TheX said: Some genie on witch action please. 30 years ago, please. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, olddbrider said: 30 years ago, please. Yeah, that would be best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anita Handle Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 I find that Bike James overstates his case a bit. Ok, a lot. I wouldn't claim that one pedal is better than the other. I only question why I should experience the fumbling an bumbling of a learning curve to move to flats. After trying for a while I just said, meh, and went back to clipless. good riders use flats. good riders use clipless. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Wait, is this thread about convincing people to change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridenfool Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, TheX said: Wait, is this thread about convincing people to change? All threads are about convincing people to change ... ... the original topic of the thread. Edited January 10, 2019 by Ridenfool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, Ridenfool said: All threads are about convincing people to change ... Dammit, I've been doing it wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyt Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 On 1/9/2019 at 10:49 AM, gotdurt said: I'm not arguing that everyone should be riding flats, but to say that flats suck with those arguments is, well, a touch ignorant. If flats are as good as clipless I would much rather ride flats. It means I can wear any shoes, can hike a bike much easier, and other people can ride my bike. When I rode flats (about 6 months) I was constantly slashing up my shins. Not while riding but just getting on/off the bike. I also struggled on dicey technical sections where I needed that extra little bit of power. Those two things were enough to make me prefer clipless. For mountain biking I dont think the efficiency really matters. But I find it hard to believe that when you are riding on the road where you pedal for 1+ hour (or all day) straight with no coasting, that being clipped in doesnt help in some way. Even if it just spreads out the load to other muscles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tip Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 32 minutes ago, TheX said: Wait, is this thread about convincing people to change? I think everyone should not try to change people. I'll argue as long as it takes to convince people to not try and change people. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cafeend Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 I swing both waysOne bike flatsOne bike cliplessI ride good on both.I have fun on bothWho caresSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larlev Posted March 13, 2019 Author Share Posted March 13, 2019 Thank you to those that reccomended Time MX4's, so far liking them a lot better than SPD's. Easy as hell to release, but am secure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcarneytx Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 hours ago, larlev said: Thank you to those that reccomended Time MX4's, so far liking them a lot better than SPD's. Easy as hell to release, but am secure. Anyone know differences from Time to Eggbeaters? I HATE my Eggbeaters; the always feel like they're about to let loose, and frequently do. I move my knees/legs a lot and SPDs just keep feet locked in. Whenever I ride the Eggbeaters, feet frequently unlatch from pedals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 On 1/10/2019 at 3:27 PM, Cafeend said: I swing both ways One bike flats One bike clipless I ride good on both. I have fun on both Who cares Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk That's #metoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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