Jump to content
IGNORED

Garmin InReach/SPOT rant


June Bug
 Share

Recommended Posts

We're in SW Colorado for another month to six weeks and I got the InReach personal locator beacon out to update the firmware and pair with my cell phone for emergency messaging since we'd like to do a little bikepacking.  It's an older InReach, bought just as Garmin bought out DeLorme. 

Then I remembered I ran into this problem awhile back.   Garmin firmware updater and other support works only with Windows and MAC; Garmin still can't be bothered to support Chrome or Linux.  We have two Chromebooks and no Windows or MAC here. 

Mr. June Bug has a new to him Chumba Stella and it came with lots of bike packing gear and an unused (still in the package) SPOT.   As it turns out, the SPOT firmware update (the most recent is 2/7/2022) also works only with Windows and MAC, but this SPOT is new enough that it may not need an update and possibly could be paired directly with our Android phones.  I'll check and see how this works. 

Anyway, this pisses me off insanely.  These are global companies; can they just not be bothered to sync with Chrome?  Ditto with SPOT.  We're more than a bit stuck.  There is no Discount Electronics store or anything remotely related here where we could pick up an old Windows desktop cheap. 

Two words that I hate are "work around" but if anyone knows of a work around, please post up.  I haven't seen anything online that offers help. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Check with your local library, sometimes they can be helpful in these situations.

Normally they should have all of the USB ports disabled for security, but it is highly likely that libraries in small towns are poor with security.

Also, a bike shop might be able to help you. A 6-pack goes a long way in that regard.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm frustrated that way too as I prefer neither windows or macos ... but there's just not enough market share that most of these hardware companies can support the one offs. I've gotten a windows virtual machine working under Linux and that helps in some cases, but not always.

It would be great ifnthwse devices supported updates via only mobile phone, that's like the best-least denominator now. But, for the size of the updates that pretty much requires wifi-direct connections, bluetooth just isn't fast enough.

Garmin has been doing a lot more of these phone based updates to devices, but more are needed.

Heck, my Fenix watch got and update from the phone that resulted in my watch updating the firmware in my bike's wheel sensor. What a crazy jenga-stack that is!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I checked in with the local LBS and they suggested a phone repair place that also does a little bit of computer stuff, but that doesn't seem like quite the right avenue. 

I'll head to the library today. Since I have a local address, they gave me a free library card.  I use them when I need to print something and to check out Tony Hillerman and Anne Hillerman murder mysteries.   Like all librarians they are very helpful, but I don't know how tech savvy they are or if they have one tech savvy person on staff. 

The computers do have Firefox for the default browser; not sure if they are Windows based.   Sadly, they don't have MAC laptops for checkout.

I want to do a ride in a few days from Hovenweep National Monument on the Colorado/Utah border, over to Hatch Trading Post (now abandoned) via unpaved Black Steer Canyon Rd. This is a recon of sorts for a longer ride I want to do. 

This is not wilderness by any means but it's way the heck out there with very little traffic and zero cell service -- an empty quarter of sorts.  We're old people on our own (74 and 77) and I don't want to be out there without an InReach or some way to get help if anything should happen. 

 

    

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have recycled so many computers we weren't using.   In fact I have a mini computer (not a laptop, just a small case desktop) that was my media PC and it has Windows 7 on it.  I'll boot it up and if it works it's yours.

 

Sorry, I hadn't realized you're out of town.

Edited by AntonioGG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I went to the library and got to the point where I had to get an admin log on and password to complete the download to update the InReach firmware and I knew that wasn't going to happen. 

We took the InReach with us on our ride today - the SOS function will work in dire circumstances, so I'll just let that be what it is.

Garmin InReach pairs with Earthmate, but I'll save all of that to when we get back to Austin. 

Yesterday I bought Ride With GPS Basic and it may be the best money I've ever spent.  Setting up the route for today's ride was, literally, effortless and Ride With GPS  will work without internet or cell service.  The web site has a list of all the things to do to extend battery life in that mode.  Even with the screen off, it gave voice prompts, so we easily navigated from Hovenweep National Monument to Hatch Trading Post via Black Steer Canyon.  We got to Hatch Trading Post in record time (all hard packed dirt and gravel after the first mile) because there's  a cumulative loss of just under 800' over 11 miles, mostly from dropping down off Cajon Mesa into Black Steer Canyon; lots of rolling terrain as well.   It was brutal on the return with a headwind of 15 to 20 mph and some steep pitches to get back up  to  the top of Cajon Mesa. 

Amazing country out there.  This was a useful recon to see if it was feasible to bike ride  the 43 miles down Montezuma Canyon Rd (gravel) to Hatch Trading Post with an overnight camping, then head east to Hovenweep National Monument on Black Steer Canyon Rd. (Hovenweep would be a safe place to leave a car)  As it turns out, we rode about a mile up Montezuma Canyon Rd from Hatch Trading Post and it was total washboard misery, so unless San Juan County, Utah decides to maintain and blade Montezuma Canyon Rd, we'll put this on the back burner.  

Click here for some info on the amazing Montezuma Canyon. 

 

Edited by June Bug
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I disliked my SPOT experience as well. I had to get it to participate in the Texas Water Safari this year. I felt like their website/registration process was outdated and predatory trying to get you to pay for added on features. Total r/assholedesign stuff. Then canceling the subscription had to be one of the most unintuitive, PITA processes ever. Which over charged me a month. 

This is all after having a Garmin watch/account that offers live tracking free of charge that notifies my person of choice as soon as I start an activity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Adding to this, their markets are going to be shrinking in the future. 

Cell phones today are starting to employ low earth orbit satellite connectivity. This will be limited only to sending small text messages, not surfing the web, but it will provide the "always connected" experience for people that they currently get from things like Spot. The tracking capability won't necessarily be there (at least not officially or immediately) but it will eventually get there.  But for a sizable chunk of their user base, the "connect to help in an emergency" is far more important - they will lose these people soon enough.

These guys are the equivalent of the companies designing the proprietary in-vehicle navigation systems. When everyone carries a smartphone, nobody uses the in-vehicle nav very often because it has shitty usability and relies on out of date technology. 

Their days are numbered.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, AustinBike said:

These guys are the equivalent of the companies designing the proprietary in-vehicle navigation systems. When everyone carries a smartphone, nobody uses the in-vehicle nav very often because it has shitty usability and relies on out of date technology.

Rather a sweeping generalization. My built-in nav works just great, and I use it on every road trip.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, TAF said:

Rather a sweeping generalization. My built-in nav works just great, and I use it on every road trip.

Varies by OEM. My '17 Toyota Nav was out of date ~10 years before they released it. Destination entry is a wretched UI, map data must be updated via $150 micro SD annually, Resolution is circa 2005, no Apple Carplay/Android Auto, overall absolute junk. Feels like the '93 Jurassic Park Ford Explorer Infotainment system whenever I attempt to use it.

image.png.1d4638025e19b2783641221d8e089795.png

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My old company used to sell the specialized memory (non-volatile) for companies that make the systems. The design in cycle is really long and so many of the platforms are highly specific to the different auto models. We also did the black box memory for airbus, but I digress.

The reason that so many of these are terrible is that the car platform refreshes are long cycle, typically 4-5 years. So, Imagine you are buying a 2022 Nissan Rogue. the platform refreshed in 2021. The design cycle on the NAV was probably 3 years, so the bulk of the design work started in 2018. Right now you are sitting on 4 year old technology. That *might* not seem too bad. But the 2017 was the previous platform and that one was designed ~2014. If you bought your Rogue in 2020, you were buying 6-year old tech. Now consider that you are going to hold the car 5-6 years and by the time you get rid of it you're sitting on ~11 or 12-year-old technology.

Compare that to the phone that you carry in your pocket that you refresh every few years and you can see how the gaps can widen.

Apple CarPlay and Android Auto are a really big deal for auto manufacturers because they allow them to move away from a business that they have generally performed poorly in over time. As evidenced by the huge aftermarket that exists for in-dash entertainment systems. 10 years from now the default option will be wireless connection to your phone and having your phone do all of the heavy lifting, they are just waiting on smartphone penetration. Someone will come up with a smartphone analog, some type of 3rd party device for maps, music, etc. that can be plugged in. The idea of in-dash NAV and entertainment is going to go away as soon as they can get a semi-standard figured out.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...
On 9/21/2022 at 6:42 AM, AustinBike said:

Cell phones today are starting to employ low earth orbit satellite connectivity.

Some of y'all may have caught this story on the news over the last few days  -- a young couple driving on the Angeles Crest Highway lost control of their car after pulling over to let an aggressive driver pass, and went tumbling down end over end 200 (some reports) to 300 (other reports) feet along a cliff to the bottom of a canyon.  Zero cell service in that area.  None of the media reports indicate that anyone witnessed the car going over the edge. 

The  couple had no cell service but were rescued after their iPhone detected the fall.

Amazingly, the couple only had scrapes and bruises and were able to crawl out of the car, which had landed upside down, so Miracle #1.  Miracle #2  --  They were able to find the woman's cell phone  about 10 yards from where the car landed, and a message had popped up on the phone, saying a crash had been detected and to swipe to contact emergency services.

"...The message that appeared on the iPhone was part of Apple's new Emergency SOS via satellite feature, which has Crash Detection and Fall Detection software and uses satellites to contact emergency services when an iPhone is out of range. The feature connects the iPhone user to an emergency call center, which can collect information and notify rescue services...The message that appeared on the iPhone was part of Apple's new Emergency SOS via satellite feature, which has Crash Detection and Fall Detection software and uses satellites to contact emergency services when an iPhone is out of range. The feature connects the iPhone user to an emergency call center, which can collect information and notify rescue services." 

These two were rescued within 30 minutes because they could text with emergency services and rescuers were able to pinpoint their exact location. 

"The feature, which Fields did not even know was on the iPhone she had only recently gotten, launched in mid-November. It's currently on iPhone 14 and iPhone 14 Pro devices running iOS 16.1 or later…Emergency SOS via satellite also allows users to share their location with friends and family if they'd like to check in while traveling off the grid. It's also free for two years after an iPhone 14 is first activated, according to Apple."

 

Edited by June Bug
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just bought a 14. This was a good selling point for me. There is both hardware and software required for this so I would expect that a.) we won't see it on older phones and b.) we will probably see it on most phones in the future. 

The hitch for android will be who is going to productize/monetize the service. Apple is in a unique situation because they make the hardware and the software. Google has the ability to do something like this, but that does not mean their other OEM platforms will do this. If someone is in the market for a phone and thinking about this feature, do NOT buy one until you can verify the service is being offered now, not promised for the future. Because it deals with satellites, it is rocket science to a degree.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

...and just like that! 

NEW MOTOROLA DEFY SATELLITE LINK TURNS YOUR SMARTPHONE INTO A SATELLITE COMMUNICATOR

The new Motorola Defy Satellite Link is about the size of a credit card, weighs just 70 grams, and turns your smartphone into a two-way communication device when traveling outside of cellular service. 

"The new Motorola Defy Satellite Link is a satellite communicator that connects via Bluetooth to your Android or iOS smartphone, providing two-way communication when traveling outside of cellular service. It’s designed to be rugged and waterproof, weighs just 70 grams (2.5 ounces), and has a 600mAh battery that’s good enough for “multiple days of use.” The best part is that the device costs just $99 and subscription plans start at $4.99 per month. It appears to be a simple device, with no LCD screen and just a few functions that include an SOS button and check-in/track option.

The Defy Satellite Link is supposed to be available this April, and you can sign up here to learn more about preorder details."

 

Edited by June Bug
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I saw that too, I'm curious to see how it ends up competing vs the InReach Mini. The Mini has a brutal but functional capability by itself that the Defy Link I don't think has ... but for majority of consumers I don't think they'd notice. 

For the peace of mind it gives Maria my Mini is totally worth the 12/month, but that price could be lower and maybe it will over time with the rising competition?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Heh.  Finally getting around to updating the InReach Explorer; I'm loaning it to some friends (3 experienced boaters, ages 65 to 74) who are floating the lower canyons of the Dolores River next week: Bedrock to Gateway, CO and a very remote stretch,  Gateway to Dewey Bridge near Moab. 

This update is possible because Mr. June Bug finally went from an utterly decrepit version of Windows to something recent this spring by going through the usual stages from "I can install this myself, how hard can it be?" to Despair and then Resignation:  "Sometimes it DOES pay to consult a professional." 

And no, Garmin still doesn't support Chrome; it's MAC and Windows. The app required for the update is downloadable to desktop only, so this update can't be done from a phone or tablet. 

I had to get out the InReach Explorer starter guide again to sort out how to turn it on.  I hate the user interface and doubt I'll ever really bond with it. 

 

Edited by June Bug
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

The Motorola Defy satellite link is now available for $149, and then you buy a plan.  (The original price was supposed to be $99.)

"No cell coverage? No problem.  Switch to satellite.  Connect any smartphone* directly to satellite for text messaging check in and SOS."

The asterisk probably relates to the phone requirements? Couldn't find it on the website. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Be very careful with some of these tools. When they say you can text, you need to see whether that is normal texting through normal text apps or only texting between their apps, meaning the person you are connecting to needs to have their app installed at the time you send the message. Some have that limitation. Also, how much info can you send?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/25/2023 at 6:26 PM, June Bug said:

The Motorola Defy satellite link is now available for $149, and then you buy a plan.  (The original price was supposed to be $99.)

"No cell coverage? No problem.  Switch to satellite.  Connect any smartphone* directly to satellite for text messaging check in and SOS."

The asterisk probably relates to the phone requirements? Couldn't find it on the website. 

I realize it's more and more common for smartphones to accompany backwoods adventures, but i'm still of the opinion that a potentially critical device should be as simple and robust and purpose-designed as possible. I'm wary of things like the Defy because they don't seem to be functional at all without the smartphone, for interactive activities.

At least with an InReach (even the Mini that I have) I can easily share prearrranged status and location with designated recipients (starting ride, still riding, need help but not emergency come when you can) in addition to the actual SOS capability, and of course the painfully harder ad-hoc messaging (think back to pre-smartphone mobile T9 messaging). I think I got my Mini for 200$ plus the 13/month plan. I would not be willing to trade off that "field" capability for a one-time $50 benefit. I've already used it a number of times for case 3.

I'm not a complete luddite though, when my recent work-issued mobile phone needed replacing I switched from Android to *gasp* and iPhone 14 just so that the emergency sattelite connectivity would become available to me. I don't take that device outdoorsy but my imagination can see times when mobile networks and wifi may not be available and I need to communicate with someone important (not my job). :^)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, bear said:

I'm not a complete luddite though, when my recent work-issued mobile phone needed replacing I switched from Android to *gasp* and iPhone 14 just so that the emergency sattelite connectivity would become available to me. I don't take that device outdoorsy but my imagination can see times when mobile networks and wifi may not be available and I need to communicate with someone important (not my job). :^)

The iPhone 14 satellite capability is pretty rudimentary but give it another year or two and smartphones will have true satellite capabilities for standard texting. We are literally at phase one of this trend. My guess is that by 2025 we'll be looking at a completely different world and the one-off market for things like this Motorola device will be swallowed up. The market will split into rudimentary, very durable devices, and smartphones. Anything in the middle will be dead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...