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How do we feel about One Wheels?


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53 minutes ago, GFisher said:

I'm curious if subject of them being motorized vehicles and their access being grey (at best) come up? I personally don't think there is any doubt the rules explicitly exclude them. 

It did not.  I was just as interested in debating park rules with him as I was debating them with every off-leash dog owner on the South side of the creek or 10+ mph bike rider on the concrete highway.  I was interested in what his group REALLY wanted out of the trails and understanding if we could all get along.  Based on my discussion, I see no reason we can't share trails with the users represented by this particular one wheel rider.

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1 hour ago, GFisher said:

I'm curious if subject of them being motorized vehicles and their access being grey (at best) come up? I personally don't think there is any doubt the rules explicitly exclude them. 

Yeah, but that is the problem with making rules. If simultaneously there is no budget set aside for enforcement, the rule is nothing more than letters on a page or on a sign. It has no power beyond what those who read it apply to themselves.

People are the problem. People breaking the rules and volunteering to help are better people than those who break the rules and remain ignorant about how their actions affect others.

 

Edited by Ridenfool
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29 minutes ago, Tree Magnet said:

It did not.  I was just as interested in debating park rules with him as I was debating them with every off-leash dog owner on the South side of the creek or 10+ mph bike rider on the concrete highway. 

Word to that. 

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3 hours ago, GFisher said:

I'm curious if subject of them being motorized vehicles and their access being grey (at best) come up? I personally don't think there is any doubt the rules explicitly exclude them. 

Actually, there is a very explicit rule: no motorized vehicles. If the parks are going to open up to them, there needs to be a “rules of engagement” for them. Right now bikes have to yield to pedestrians (and dogs). If one wheels are allowed then I would say they need to yield to bikes. Every engagement I have had has been awkward, they had little ability to react to riders and end up causing both to stop. This makes no sense, almost impossible for a bike and a one wheel to pass each other on UCD of the trail because it is too narrow for them to maintain control (but 2 bikes pass each other all day long.) There was a definite lack of maneuverability on every encounter. We just need some common sense way to all take advantage of the same trails. 

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Hello everyone, my name is Fred Cunningham, my friends call me Freddy, and I am one of those guys that ride a Onewheel.  I am as passionate about onewheels, as most of you are about bikes.  I bought my first board, the Onewheel Plus, almost 2 years ago, and since then I have collected a total of 4 boards and over 4800 miles of riding!  It’s most like riding a surfboard or snowboard, but the falls are a bit different ;)  Gently riding along the cement doesn’t take too much effort once you learn, but shredding a good trail is always a workout!  It’s like riding a black diamond on a snowboard!  A biker at Walnut Creek yelled out once, “Hey!  It’s the DirtSurfers!  What’s up guys!”   That really made my day, and it made me realize how important it is for us all to get along as a community.  Some bikers have not been so friendly, yelling stuff at us as they go by like “Those are not allowed on the trails!” or “You’re not supposed to be here, those are against the law!” You would think they actually knew the law, seeing as they were ready to tell me to go home over it.  I was starting to grow resentment against the community of which I was once a part, based on just a few bad attitudes.  The guy who called us DirtSurfers did what I was hoping all the bikers would do – he had accepted us as OK in his book.  He saw us for what we were, and didn’t need a sign to tell him if it was OK or not.  He saw our passion, and who was he to stomp on it?  The truth is, the law is confusing and the signs are misleading – as crazy as this sounds, “motorized vehicle” does not mean “any vehicle with a motor” as it is written in the law.  All types of vehicles are clearly defined and each have their own set of rules.

Follow me down this rabbit hole, and I will show you why Onewheels are legal and allowed anywhere a bicycle is allowed, including trails and places that have signs that say “No Motorized Vehicles Allowed”


I’d like to start with a few thought-provoking questions.   How would this group feel about a unicycle riding on Walnut Creek?  Are unicycles allowed at Walnut Creek?  Are unicycles considered a bicycle according to the law? I think most people will agree that a unicycle is just a one-wheeled bicycle, and should follow all the laws of a bicycle.  However, unicycles are not mentioned in Texas law – the word doesn’t exist in Texas law if you search for it, and the definition of a bicycle describes it as having “two tandem wheels” as shown below:

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/TN/htm/TN.541.htm

TRANSPORTATION CODE

 

TITLE 7. VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC

 

SUBTITLE C. RULES OF THE ROAD

 

CHAPTER 541. DEFINITIONS

SUBCHAPTER C. VEHICLES, RAIL TRANSPORTATION, AND EQUIPMENT

(2)  "Bicycle" means a device that a person may ride and that is propelled by human power and has two tandem wheels at least one of which is more than 14 inches in diameter.

A unicycle does not have two wheels – it only has one – but if you ask a police officer, he will tell you that a unicycle gets treated just like a bicycle, and needs to follow the same laws.  The reason unicycles are not named specifically in the law, is because they don’t have to be.  The law allows for “reasonable accommodation”.  When a law doesn’t fit a definition exactly, it allows for a reasonable interpretation based on the intent with which the law was written.  A prudent person or judge will treat a unicycle like a bicycle under the law, because the definition of “bicycle” is the closest definition that defines a unicycle, despite having one wheel instead of two.

 

Now, let’s look at the definition of “motor vehicle” under the law, or “motorized vehicle” as it is sometimes used on signs.  A sign can’t fit the entire law on it; the sign itself is not the law; it is used to reference the actual law on the books.  A strict interpretation of “no motorized vehicles” would mean that an electric wheelchair is not allowed, but I think we all know that if you dig down into the legalese, an electric wheelchair is certainly allowed in places that say “no motorized vehicles”.   So let’s dig deeper into the law and the definition of “motor vehicle” under the law.

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/TN/htm/TN.541.htm

(11)  "Motor vehicle" means a self-propelled vehicle or a vehicle that is propelled by electric power from overhead trolley wires.  The term does not include an electric bicycle or an electric personal assistive mobility device, as defined by Section 551.201

Notice that the definition of a motor vehicle excludes two groups - Electric bicycles and Electric Personal Assistive Mobility Devices.  This means that both of those groups, as described in Section 551.201 are NOT a motorized vehicle, but have their OWN set of laws regulating them. So let’s look at the definition of an Electric Personal Assistive Mobility Devices (EPAMD) under Section 551.201 – Also Known to many people as the Segway Law:

TRANSPORTATION CODE

 

TITLE 7. VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC

 

SUBTITLE C. RULES OF THE ROAD

 

CHAPTER 551. OPERATION OF BICYCLES, MOPEDS, AND PLAY VEHICLES

SUBCHAPTER C. ELECTRIC PERSONAL ASSISTIVE MOBILITY DEVICES

 

Sec. 551.201.  DEFINITION.  In this subchapter, "electric personal assistive mobility device" means a two non-tandem wheeled device designed for transporting one person that is:

(1)  self-balancing;  and

(2)  propelled by an electric propulsion system with an average power of 750 watts or one horsepower.

 

Added by Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 1318, Sec. 5, eff. Sept. 1, 2003.

 

Sec. 551.202.  OPERATION ON ROADWAY.  (a)  A person may operate an electric personal assistive mobility device on a residential street, roadway, or public highway with a speed limit of 30 miles per hour or less only:

(1)  while making a direct crossing of a highway in a marked or unmarked crosswalk;

(2)  where no sidewalk is available;  or

(3)  when so directed by a traffic control device or by a law enforcement officer.

(b)  A person may operate an electric personal assistive mobility device on a path set aside for the exclusive operation of bicycles.

(c)  Any person operating an electric personal assistive mobility device on a residential street, roadway, or public highway shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand edge.

(d)  Except as otherwise provided by this section, provisions of this title applicable to the operation of bicycles apply to the operation of electric personal assistive mobility devices.

 

The definition of an EPAMD fits the Onewheel almost perfectly!

The Onewheel meets both requirements:

1) The Onewheel is self balancing

2) The Onewheel has a motor of 750watts or under

 

The only thing that stands out, is that an EPAMD is described as to have two non-tandem wheels, and a Onewheel only has one wheel.  Do you see now why I started this discussion talking about the unicycle?  This law was written for Segways before the onewheel was ever invented.  Segways have two non-tandem wheels, and when the law was written, no one considered it could have only one wheel.  Does the number of wheels make a difference?  I don’t think it matters, and neither does the state of Arizona. 

Arizona is one of the first states that has modified its Segway law to recognize Onewheels.

In Arizona law, the definition of EPAMD was modified recently.

It once read almost exactly as our Texas law does:

 

"Electric personal assistive mobility device" means a self-balancing two nontandem wheeled device  

The law in Arizona was modified to say:

"a self‑balancing device with one wheel or two nontandem wheeled device ..."

 

Just like a unicycle is to a bicycle, a onewheel is to a Segway.  Arizona has confirmed this, and I believe Texas will follow suit, and change the wording of the law as soon as a case goes to court.   Even if Texas doesn’t change the wording of the law, all vehicles need to be classified under the law as something.  The Onewheel does not fit any vehicle described under the law exactly, just as a unicycle doesn’t fit exactly. A Onewheel is best defined under the law as an EPAMD, just as a unicycle is best described under the law as a bicycle. 

I understand this isn’t Arizona, but if I were to get a ticket for riding my onewheel tomorrow here in Texas, I would take it to court.  I could just dangle a skateboard wheel off the side of my board, and I would be in full compliance of the Segway law by having two non-tandem wheels.  I’d rather demonstrate to the court as was done in Arizona that the onewheel is most closely described in law under the EPAMD guidelines and then ask for “reasonable accommodation” under the law.  They would then have to determine if having only one wheel instead of two wheels makes any difference, and like Arizona, I think they will agree it does not. 

I believe that Texas law allows for Onewheels to go any place that allows bicycles.  However, I believe what is most important is how we affect those who came before us, as well as how we affect the trails.

Who are we?  

We have a Facebook group called the Austin Onewheel Club.  We mainly use it to share info about parts, techniques, pictures, and making meetups.  We have about 200 members, of which I would guess 100 have a onewheel, 50 actually ride it, and 30 are part of our circle that get out and ride with others.  I’d guess there are only about 30 Onewheel riders who are even interested in riding in the dirt.   The biggest meetup we ever had was when we got them all together once to ride Walnut Creek and we invited the Dallas Onewheel crew down.  We probably won’t do that again.  It caused too much of a stir and is what brought us to everyone’s attentionJ

How do Onewheels affect the trails?

While I helped repair the trails on Sunday, I watched as a number of bikers road by, rutting up the trails while it was too wet.  Right in front of my eyes, these bikers were destroying what I was helping to fix, at the same time I was trying to fix it!  A Onewheel has less impact on the trail than a walker or a biker.  Let’s test that statement with a challenge.  I challenge you all to take a picture of a onewheel rut- I don’t think they exist.  You can find footprints and holes made by hikers, and bike ruts are everywhere, but you will not find a single mark left behind by a onewheel.  We are allowed on golf course fairways because we have less impact than a golf cart.  Our wheel is 6.5 inches wide and is inflated to under 20 psi.  Since we have to balance on a single wheel, loss of traction is not an option.  If we lose traction, we fall off almost immediately.  We cannot lock up our brakes like a bike and skid, causing ruts.  We cannot overpower our tire and peel out like a bike, which is also harmful to the trail.  We basically roll over stuff without moving it.  On a wet trail, a hiker will leave footprints, a bike will leave ruts, but our Onewheels leave almost no mark at all.  Please understand this though – we don’t ride when it is wet, we go somewhere else.   We don’t like to fall off when it’s slippery, and mud cakes up our fender and wheel.  When I was helping with the trails on Sunday, my tire got all caked up with mud but it was not from my tire digging up dirt and mud. I wasn’t leaving even a mark on the trail.   As most of you know, when the trails are wet and bikers ride, there are lots of clumps of mud sitting on top of the trail.  The mud was once on a bike tire, but then got flung off onto the trail.  My onewheel tire rides down the trail and picks up all the clumps of mud that the bikers flung off, and that mud clogs up my wheel so it doesn’t want to rotate.  I asked a few people to look at the trail behind my tire, and see if they could find any sign that I was there, and no one could.  So, under conditions that we prefer NOT to ride in, we still do not rut up the trails, and as a matter of fact, we flatten out the ruts that the bikers make.  We are like Trail Zambonis.  We make the trails better, not worse.  I flattened out the new dirt on the berm like a Zamboni on the ice rink.  A onewheel could be a good tool for every trail maintenance team.

 I know some of you are concerned that we may move objects to make it easier to pass, but I assure you that is not the case.  We take pride in achievements, and making it up or down a tough section is a badge of honor.  We don’t change the trails, we don’t move anything, and we leave no footprint.

How do Onewheels interact with hikers?

Hikers love us in comparison to bikes – we are only 12 inches wide as compared to 24 inches or more for a bike.  We don’t have any dangerous handlebars, spokes, gears or chains to hurt hikers or their dogs, and we don’t go blazing by them at crazy speeds.  We can easily come to a complete stop or crawl.    Hikers like us more than bikes because we are less intimidating – we don’t try to maintain speed hoping they get out of our way.  We typically slow down, say hello have a nice day, pass them, and then speed up again.  If a biker hits a hiker, the hiker usually loses that battle.  If a onewheel would hit a hiker, it could go either way.  The slightest brush of a hiker and the hiker would be fine while the onewheeler loses his balance and falls off his board.  If we did accidently bump someone it would be with our soft bodies, not a handlebar or pedal.  We don’t want to crash, so we stay away from hikers and don’t give them the chance to crash us. 

 

How do Onewheels interact with bikers?

We get lots of great reactions from bikers – many are impressed, think we are crazy, or just want to know how it works.  Most can appreciate the skill required, and the small footprint we leave behind.  We are rarely in anyone’s way – and we get a lot of thank-you’s when we let bikes pass.  When we take a break, bikers stop to talk with us and have questions, and we always try to share the stoke.  After all, most of us were mountain bikers before we were onewheelers.  We always let bikers pass, and since we are moving almost as fast as they are, we have plenty of time to get out of the way.  We are easier to pass than a hiker that pops out of nowhere, or any dog walker.  We are easier to pass than another bike as well.  We are 12 inches wide, and can ride side by side on a single track – which is impossible on bikes.  By having a 12 inch footprint, instead of 24 inch wide handlebars, it’s easy to see how we are easier to pass, when we take up half the room as a bike.  We always yield to bikes, and can easily get out of the way.  We can come to a complete stop and hop off in a second, whereas a biker typically doesn’t want to stop at all, and may not be able to get out of their pedals.  Most important for this group is that we yield to bikes.

Where does that leave us? 

Partners.  We all have the same passion to ride and take care of the trails we love, but maybe we ride them a little bit different.  I would like to join forces, and get our onewheel group more involved in trail maintenance.  I think our group has a lot to contribute, and the more of us you meet, the more you will see yourselves in our passion for the trails.

I’m sure a few bikers would like to try out a onewheel.  I’d be glad to set up a time to bring a few out to demo if anyone is interested. 

I’ll be working at Walnut Creek again this Sunday; I’ll have a couple friends with me this time, and I hope to meet more of you.  Thank you for taking the time to read this post.  I look forward to the feedback, both positive and negative, as well as a good discussion on where you agree or disagree with my logic or the law.

 

Edited by DirtSurfer
reformatted so it can be seen
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On 4/17/2019 at 2:07 PM, Tree Magnet said:

A one wheel rider named Freddie came out and helped the ARR work crew this past Sunday.  He grabbed a shovel and spent some time helping us maintain the trail.  In fact, he was able to ride that one wheel across the face of the berm and pack it in really nice!  He said the goal of his group of riders was to have a one wheel rider on every trail crew.

That being said, I talked to him about the concerns that the mountain bike community have about ANY trail user group modifying the trail surface to suit their unique approach to enjoying the trail at the expense of the other trail users.  It's the same reason we don't create big trail features without B lines that are great fun to ride but the hikers can't negotiate.  He got it.  They are looking for smoother trails without rocks the are fun to ride.  Point 6 is their idea of heaven while something like Deception would be a nightmare.  I have no problems with these guys enjoying nature and the trails that we all love so much.  The more advocates that we have using these trails in a responsible way gives us all more power to keep them protected and accessible.

 


The above is good community, and is what builds good community.

And "B" lines are fun... Gotta love those "B" lines that hikers can't negoiate.

🙂

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11 minutes ago, AntonioGG said:

This is how your post looks to us in dark mode (except in much smaller print)

image.thumb.png.64860736e935e905deceb8ce64a4d164.png

My first post!  I knew I would mess it up! lol- I cut and pasted from a Word Document, and it looks normal on my PC - any tips why it looks so dark, or how I can make it better?

I'll edit the post - thanks!

Edited by DirtSurfer
can't spell ;)
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You suffer from the same thing that we bikers suffer from - there are some in our midst that create problems for everyone and give all of us a bad name. 

When i have encountered one wheels they have almost universally had difficulty navigating in the same space as a bike. So both of us ended up dismounted-not optimal. 

Also, if there is a lack of clarity about what is or is not allowed in parks, I would focus on getting clarity from the city, not us (we don’t own the park, even though sometimes we act like it.)

We have an advocacy group, the Austin Ridgeriders and I would recommend you guys getting one as well. And maybe engage with ours to help smooth things out. And yeah, I’ve come across ahole one wheelers just like I’ve come across ahole bikers. 

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I'm on record here as saying my interactions with one-wheels have been positive. But you are quoting Texas code.  Here's the CoA ordinance that's applicable.  The definition is a lot more broad.

https://library.municode.com/tx/austin/ordinances/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=836575

8-1-31 

To summarize: a person may not operate a motor vehicle, or "motor driven device" in a public recreation area unless:  it's a City vehicle, or you have permission from the parks director.

I second AustinBike's advice to create your advocacy group and work with PARD to specifically allow your one-wheels.

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I agree with Antonio that we should be looking at the city code as this is a city park. Signage says “no motorized vehicles” so it if somehow a one wheel is not considered a motorized vehicle then it is incumbent on the OW community to get this clarified by the city. Until then, the motor rule seems to be pretty straightforward. 

This is similar to what happened with skiing and snowboarding. When snowboarding first started there were arguments about rules. Then they were comprehended in rules, specifically, and everyone got along. 

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4 hours ago, DirtSurfer said:

Hello everyone, my name is Fred Cunningham, my friends call me Freddy, and I am one of those guys that ride a Onewheel.  I am as passionate about onewheels, as most of you are about bikes. 

First off, Howdy Freddy. I want to say thanks for taking the time to join and actually engaging in discourse with the mountain bike community.

Although I have not encountered any or your kind yet, you're still welcome to the planet as long as you don't try to eat us.

Just by going out and helping with trail maintenance and trying to engage with other trail users, you've done more than 99% of the mountain bike community.  I'm sure by now, you're probably familiar with Austin Ridge Riders and they have a lot of experience with dealing with landowners (public and private) and would be a great resource for your efforts.

 

"Dirtsurfer" Hmm, sounds like a new movie franchise

 

 

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Yep, i've seen the OneWheel crew out a few times and have had positive interactions with them, so I have no real complaints.

I always assumed they were motorized vehicles and weren't really supposed to be on the trails, but I turned a blind eye to it considering the small footprint and their general courtesy of moving out of the way for faster trail users. 

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4 hours ago, AntonioGG said:

I'm on record here as saying my interactions with one-wheels have been positive. But you are quoting Texas code.  Here's the CoA ordinance that's applicable.  The definition is a lot more broad.

https://library.municode.com/tx/austin/ordinances/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=836575

8-1-31 

To summarize: a person may not operate a motor vehicle, or "motor driven device" in a public recreation area unless:  it's a City vehicle, or you have permission from the parks director.

I second AustinBike's advice to create your advocacy group and work with PARD to specifically allow your one-wheels.

Thank you for that link.  Again I think it comes down to the definition of a "motorized vehicle", and I believe CoA uses the same definitions as the state.  Below is a link that backs up my position, and that PARD recognizes segways as allowed, which would in turn mean that onewheels are allowed based on my interpretation of the law, and how it has been interpreted in other states. 

 https://thetrailfoundation.org/2018/06/29/austin-pard-reminds-public-that-motorized-vehicles-are-prohibited-on-parkland-and-hike-and-bike-trails/

The link above references PARD ordinance and specifically states that segways are allowed, and are the exception to the rule of "no motorized vehicles".  

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5 minutes ago, DirtSurfer said:

Thank you for that link.  Again I think it comes down to the definition of a "motorized vehicle", and I believe CoA uses the same definitions as the state.  Below is a link that backs up my position, and that PARD recognizes segways as allowed, which would in turn mean that onewheels are allowed based on my interpretation of the law, and how it has been interpreted in other states. 

 https://thetrailfoundation.org/2018/06/29/austin-pard-reminds-public-that-motorized-vehicles-are-prohibited-on-parkland-and-hike-and-bike-trails/

The link above references PARD ordinance and specifically states that segways are allowed, and are the exception to the rule of "no motorized vehicles".  

Even though they didn't capitalize or TM Segway, that's a very specific reference (as is the Emma Long motorcycle reference).  If I were a one-wheel rider (?, surfer?) I'd want to get clarification.

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2 minutes ago, DirtSurfer said:

Thank you for that link.  Again I think it comes down to the definition of a "motorized vehicle", and I believe CoA uses the same definitions as the state.  Below is a link that backs up my position, and that PARD recognizes segways as allowed, which would in turn mean that onewheels are allowed based on my interpretation of the law, and how it has been interpreted in other states. 

 https://thetrailfoundation.org/2018/06/29/austin-pard-reminds-public-that-motorized-vehicles-are-prohibited-on-parkland-and-hike-and-bike-trails/

The link above references PARD ordinance and specifically states that segways are allowed, and are the exception to the rule of "no motorized vehicles".  

Actually, not to get all legal on you (I am not a lawyer), but that page spells it out pretty clearly. No motorized vehicles. And then it spells out, specifically, the exceptions. None of which represents one wheels. You are not a Segway and you are definitely not an ADA appliance.

This is why I go back to my original statement: You need to get a city of Austin or PARD statement that one wheels are allowed. Otherwise you are interpreting a rule to your benefit. Trust me, there are plenty of places that bikes are not allowed (must we rehash the name Forest Ridge) and we are not allowed to simply say "well, by our interpretation..."

Instead of running on your interpretation, please take the time to get the opinion of the city, the folks that make the rules. At that point, you'll be on much firmer ground and be able to show that, yes, you are allowed. Otherwise, it comes off as "yeah, I read the rules, but the way that I interpret them...." 

All of this can be resolved by the people that make the rules, none of this can be resolved here because we don't make the rules. If you are angling to get the biking community on your side to help change the rules, again, I say engage with the Austin Ridgeriders as they have already established channels with the city. Also, I neglected to say earlier that the mountain unicycle guys are very familiar to the mountain biking community, we see them as "brothers on wheels" and are pretty amazed at the things that they can do. Quite frankly, watching them do things that I cannot is humbling, but they also do it without an engine, it is all individual skills. That, sadly, is where our groups part ways; you won't find us very excited about e-bikes either, for that reason.

But we should all be enjoying our parks. Get in touch with the city and PARD and get this all sorted out. It's better to be legally recognized and ride without worry than be defensive every time you encounter someone that questions whether you should be there. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/19/2019 at 4:51 PM, AustinBike said:

Also, I neglected to say earlier that the mountain unicycle guys are very familiar to the mountain biking community, we see them as "brothers on wheels" and are pretty amazed at the things that they can do. Quite frankly, watching them do things that I cannot is humbling, but they also do it without an engine, it is all individual skills. That, sadly, is where our groups part ways; you won't find us very excited about e-bikes either, for that reason.

AB, could you please clarify something?  Are you saying:

  1. MTB and MTU share the quality of doing things sans engine, but that's where the similarity ends (because the MTU folks have mad skills, etc.), or
  2. MTB folks have skill, whereas OW folks do not, or
  3. Something else?

I can't tell whether your statement is praise for MTU folks, scorn for OW folks, or what.

-cls

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Mountain unicycles rock. They are badass and share the same skills as mountain bikers, only they essentially are fixies on a single wheel. That is good.

One wheels and scooters (lime, bird, etc.) share the same skills as well, much of it driven by the fact that they are self propelled.

If we were to do an SAT question it would be "Mountain unicycles are to mountain bikes as _______________ is to deckless scooters." 

I am not saying that OW don't have skills, because every mode of transportation has some degree of skill, even driving a car 😉 (I just did 130Km/hour in a Citroen C4 to get here tonight.) 

From a skills level, in my simplistic Venn diagram world, mountain bikes, road bikes and mountain unicycles are in one circle and one wheels, deckles scooters and motorcycles are in another circle. The intersection of the two is eBikes. The reason that eBikes sit in the middle is that there is some degree of self propulsion (i.e. pedaling) that happens for these vehicles, so they really sit in both worlds. 

I do recognize that one wheels require skills (balance, etc.) that I don't necessarily have - I went to special gym as a kid so my coordination and motor skills are limited. I don't want to imply that they are not skilled.

Ultimately anyone getting off their ass and doing something outside instead of watching TV deserves praise. But, as the current laws are outlined, they don't all deserve a free pass on the trails. Just as there are places we are not allowed to ride that we must abide by, they fall in the same camp. They should not be allowed to interpret the laws as they see fit. The idea that they can just apply Segway rules is ludicrous at best and primarily self-serving, just as if a mountain biker showed up at a motocross-only motorcycle trail and tried to argue that "well, we both have two wheels and knobby tires so I am allowed here..."

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7 hours ago, AustinBike said:

Mountain unicycles rock. They are badass and share the same skills as mountain bikers, only they essentially are fixies on a single wheel. That is good.

One wheels and scooters (lime, bird, etc.) share the same skills as well, much of it driven by the fact that they are self propelled.

If we were to do an SAT question it would be "Mountain unicycles are to mountain bikes as _______________ is to deckless scooters." 

I am not saying that OW don't have skills, because every mode of transportation has some degree of skill, even driving a car 😉 (I just did 130Km/hour in a Citroen C4 to get here tonight.) 

From a skills level, in my simplistic Venn diagram world, mountain bikes, road bikes and mountain unicycles are in one circle and one wheels, deckles scooters and motorcycles are in another circle. The intersection of the two is eBikes. The reason that eBikes sit in the middle is that there is some degree of self propulsion (i.e. pedaling) that happens for these vehicles, so they really sit in both worlds. 

I do recognize that one wheels require skills (balance, etc.) that I don't necessarily have - I went to special gym as a kid so my coordination and motor skills are limited. I don't want to imply that they are not skilled.

Ultimately anyone getting off their ass and doing something outside instead of watching TV deserves praise. But, as the current laws are outlined, they don't all deserve a free pass on the trails. Just as there are places we are not allowed to ride that we must abide by, they fall in the same camp. They should not be allowed to interpret the laws as they see fit. The idea that they can just apply Segway rules is ludicrous at best and primarily self-serving, just as if a mountain biker showed up at a motocross-only motorcycle trail and tried to argue that "well, we both have two wheels and knobby tires so I am allowed here..."

preach on! THIS! ^^^

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Here's a "...simplistic..." VENN DIAGRAM on the matter...

(Not sure how a "...deckless scooter..." and motorcycles/Onewheel end up in the same circle... But hey, what do I know...)

But seriously... This is great stuff. The more I look at it the more impressed I am.
 

Screen Shot 2019-05-01 at 10.04.04 AM.png

Edited by RidingAgain
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And look...

Although I hate to make things more complicated — after everything has been made "...simplistic..." — but here's something that someone is throwing into the mix...

 



And this guy...
 



And this one...
 



And this one too...
 


This one also...
 



And listen to this fella's experience...
 

 

Edited by RidingAgain
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