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How do we feel about One Wheels?


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On ‎5‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 8:33 AM, RidingAgain said:



You all pulled aside to allow us to pass, and did so in a timely manner, and I don't think I even needed to say "Biker up" on anything similar (which shows an awareness of what's happening around you). And when I said "Thanks" you all responded with a positive response.

And this is supported by the way you came to this website to engage the local mtb community.

DirtSurfer... Welcome to the Austin community of trail users. Keep on keeping on in the manner that you have... Humble enough to properly engage existing trail users, yet holding to a vision of developing an activity you enjoy.

Thank you very much for this reply!  I really appreciate it.  We make a conscious effort to engage with most everyone on the trails and leave them with a positive image.  It feels good knowing that it is being well received.

Riding a OW gives us a few advantages with trail awareness.  

1. The OW is almost silent, it's amazingly quiet.   In my adventures outside of Walnut, I've snuck up on deer, fox, rabbits, birds, squirrels, opossums, geese, snakes, turtles, all kinds of things!  We usually hear others before they know we are there. 

2. When we ride, we stand sideways. This lets us look backwards almost as easy as looking forwards.  We look back when we hear a noise,  the last rider will yell "biker" to the group, and we all find our own place to pull over before the biker catches up to us -in most cases, the biker doesn't even need to slow down.  That's the experience we strive for, because it lets the bikers know we respect them.  

Thanks you for welcoming us to the community! 

 

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There's a mid-aged fella who lives in my apartment complex that has been learning to ride one for the last few months. On pavement though. He looks like he's having fun... In a tentative way at least. I'm all for him getting better and taking to trails with it.

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21 hours ago, AustinBike said:

My interpretation does not matter. 

Unfortunately your interpretation does matter because you are acting out and yelling at us when you see us.  Hopefully your behavior doesn't escalate as you find people not responding in the way you want. 

This is a post below from a friend in my group from yesterday - were you down south yesterday?

 " I just had my most aggressive encounter yet. On the Boardwalk on the South side of Lade Bird Lake. A cyclist traveled from his side to come at me headfirst and run me into the railing and shouted “No motorized vehicles” at me. He didn’t stop to have a dialogue and instead road off without looking and nearly crashed into another cyclist who screamed out loud as she swerved to avoid him. "

Same story - a biker thinks they know the law, and tries to act as the judge and jury and take it straight to sentencing!   The trail mentioned above actually allows even scooters, yet this biker thought he was so justified and righteous that he could threaten my friends safety and those around him.

You claim that I am interpreting the law to my benefit, but isn't that exactly what you are doing and then getting aggressive trying to scare people off?  Who is causing more harm for the community, you or I?  

 

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I've been following this thread and really didn't have any idea what a OneWheel was. So, I finally got curious enough to look it up.

Now that I've found the site and seen the thing in action, those are freakin' cool!

It is the skateboard I always wanted.  I used to skateboard hi-rise parking lots 'cuz I could use the elevator to gain altitude. I guess I pioneered "I only ride park" as in parking lot, that is.

I don't have any issue with a responsible rider using these on the trail. Just like bikes, it will be the rider who may be the problem, not the conveyance itself.

Edited by Ridenfool
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2 minutes ago, DirtSurfer said:

Unfortunately your interpretation does matter because you are acting out and yelling at us when you see us.  Hopefully your behavior doesn't escalate as you find people not responding in the way you want. 

This is a post below from a friend in my group from yesterday - were you down south yesterday?

 " I just had my most aggressive encounter yet. On the Boardwalk on the South side of Lade Bird Lake. A cyclist traveled from his side to come at me headfirst and run me into the railing and shouted “No motorized vehicles” at me. He didn’t stop to have a dialogue and instead road off without looking and nearly crashed into another cyclist who screamed out loud as she swerved to avoid him. "

Same story - a biker thinks they know the law, and tries to act as the judge and jury and take it straight to sentencing!   The trail mentioned above actually allows even scooters, yet this biker thought he was so justified and righteous that he could threaten my friends safety and those around him.

You claim that I am interpreting the law to my benefit, but isn't that exactly what you are doing and then getting aggressive trying to scare people off?  Who is causing more harm for the community, you or I?  

 

Did I miss somewhere in this thread where Austinbike claims to have yelled and aggressively tried to scare people off? I'm not sure where that accusation comes from.

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21 minutes ago, RidingAgain said:

There's a mid-aged fella who lives in my apartment complex that has been learning to ride one for the last few months. On pavement though. He looks like he's having fun... In a tentative way at least. I'm all for him getting better and taking to trails with it.

That's cool!  Riding in grass is a good step towards trails -  your legs need some muscle memory to get through the bumps and grass is more forgiving.   I'd be happy to help teach him a few things if he is interested - It's good to get with a group and learn from others mistakes :)

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15 minutes ago, Teamsloan said:

Did I miss somewhere in this thread where Austinbike claims to have yelled and aggressively tried to scare people off? I'm not sure where that accusation comes from.

Not exactly - his version of the story is a little different than mine. 

In his version of the story, he rolled by and said something harmless, and the OW rider yelled profanities at him. 

In my version of the story, he yelled at us that we were not allowed.  And I yelled back that we were. 

Yelling at someone that they are not allowed is an intimidating way of saying  "get out of here" and to scare people off.

Maybe you see it as harmless? 

Edit to add - the female rider with us was not impressed. She said that had she been alone during this encounter, she would have just left. 

Edited by DirtSurfer
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1 hour ago, Teamsloan said:

Did I miss somewhere in this thread where Austinbike claims to have yelled and aggressively tried to scare people off? I'm not sure where that accusation comes from.

It is how Dirt Surfer uses "he" and "you" when something like "that rider" or "trail users" and so on would better convey it as a general statement. Particularly when the statement follows one where a specific person was named. 

One of the shortcomings of posting in a forum is how our common speech methods don't transfer to text very well. It can be confusing and easily taken out of context and is worth taking the time to look for this when proof reading, prior to hitting the button to post it.

I think that AB is saying basically the same as Dirt Surfer in regard to how any final decision will have to come from a court. Nobody at any level has the authority to dictate interpretation of these rules to any specific device. Even then, court decisions don't get downloaded into people's consciousness updates, so folks still won't know even after it has been defined more specifically in court.

Edited by Ridenfool
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46 minutes ago, DirtSurfer said:

Not exactly - his version of the story is a little different than mine. 

In his version of the story, he rolled by and said something harmless, and the OW rider yelled profanities at him. 

In my version of the story, he yelled at us that we were not allowed.  And I yelled back that we were. 

Yelling at someone that they are not allowed is an intimidating way of saying  "get out of here" and to scare people off.

Maybe you see it as harmless? 

Edit to add - the female rider with us was not impressed. She said that had she been alone during this encounter, she would have just left. 

Dirt Surfer. The question was about a specific person on this forum, AustinBike, who is out of the country last I heard and probably wasn't the offending rider.

Your responses seem to be claiming that this person, who many of us know, was the same person who ran your friend off the path. This matter of you seeming to be accusing a specific person who uses the name AustinBike on this forum and is sometimes referred to as AB is what the question was trying to clear up.

Edited by Ridenfool
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Right, I'm wondering how you know it was Austinbike that was involved in this altercation? There are a lot of aggressive A**hats out there on bikes, but I've never seen Austinbike be one of them. Let's be careful about any personal accusations here. You don't know him, me, or any of the other faceless profiles on here. I'd hate to see all your good efforts be setback by any misunderstanding. Likewise, we don't know you from any other OW'er we've seen on the trail. I don't believe anyone has accused you directly of any aggressive behavior on here. You've only been accused of breaking the rules, which is the whole debate.

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3 minutes ago, Ridenfool said:

Dirt Surfer. The question was about a specific person on this forum, AustinBike, who is out of the country last I heard and probably wasn't the offending rider. Your responses seem to be claiming that this person, who many of us know, was the same person who ran your friend off the path. This is what the question was trying to clear up.

Sorry - I was trying to be funny and it didn't come across that way

 I don't think it was AustinBike who ran my friend off the road at all - I was jokingly asking him if he was down south, but I didn't really think he was.

I mentioned the incident with my friend to show how behavior can escalate. AB has admitted to "telling" people they are not allowed....but from our view it was yelling.  He didn't stop to talk, he just vented and rode off.

I probably should have just let it go and not addressed him about it again.  I feel frustrated that he still feels justified in his behavior,  after pouring so much effort in to explaining our side of the story.  We get yelled at by bikers all the time - its almost daily that one of us gets grief from a biker.  Here we have one of those bikers that yells at OWs, and I was hoping he might say he would stop doing it.

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17 minutes ago, DirtSurfer said:

Sorry - I was trying to be funny and it didn't come across that way

 I don't think it was AustinBike who ran my friend off the road at all - I was jokingly asking him if he was down south, but I didn't really think he was.

I mentioned the incident with my friend to show how behavior can escalate. AB has admitted to "telling" people they are not allowed....but from our view it was yelling.  He didn't stop to talk, he just vented and rode off.

I probably should have just let it go and not addressed him about it again.  I feel frustrated that he still feels justified in his behavior,  after pouring so much effort in to explaining our side of the story.  We get yelled at by bikers all the time - its almost daily that one of us gets grief from a biker.  Here we have one of those bikers that yells at OWs, and I was hoping he might say he would stop doing it.

Here's a good example of how misunderstandings arise. In the first bolded part you are referring to a specific person, AustinBike/AB. In the second bolded part the "He" would appear to most people to refer to person named in the preceding sentence. I think this was not your intention.

Saying "... but from our point of view the rider that came at our friend was yelling" would make a clean break of it.

AB is pretty diplomatic (he is Austin's defacto MTB ambassador to the world) and when he says he is "telling" people something I'd wager it is done respectfully. Also, his statement was not OneWheel specific, he likely tells mountain bikers about riding on muddy trails, or other things if he feels a positive outcome might come from his doing so.

Edited by Ridenfool
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17 minutes ago, Ridenfool said:

AB is pretty diplomatic (he is Austin's defacto MTB ambassador to the world) and when he says he is "telling" people something I'd wager it is done respectfully. Also, his statement was not OneWheel specific, he likely tells mountain bikers about riding on muddy trails, or other things if he feels a positive outcome might come from his doing so.

Same here, I cannot picture AB yelling at people like that.   I think you've assumed he was the one you had that very negative interaction with.  Or maybe like my sons, you have a different definition of yelling to mean using a stern tone of voice.

I've yelled at people with unleashed dogs but that's usually when they're lunging at me or my dogs and the adrenaline is flowing.

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Depending on the point of view I guess, I "yell" at people with off leash dogs, oblivious trail runners with headphones, hikers about oncoming riders behind me, and anything else that from my perspective needs to be addressed. Sometimes yelling happens because if I used a casual talking voice as I ride by no one would hear me. There's yelling to be heard and then there's yelling to show anger.

Why would it surprise you to be "yelled" at (even aggressively) when you know that a large amount of mountain bikers view your trail use as a violation of park rules? Do you expect them to change their belief when you comment back that they're wrong?

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15 minutes ago, Ridenfool said:

Here's a good example of how misunderstandings arise. In the first bolded part you are referring to a specific person, AustinBike/AB. In the second bolded part the "He" would appear to most people to refer to person named in the preceding sentence. I think this was not your intention.

Saying "... but from our point of view the rider that came at our friend was yelling" would make a clean break of it.

AB is pretty diplomatic (he is Austin's defacto MTB ambassador to the world) and when he says he is "telling" people something I'd wager it is done respectfully. Also, his statement was not OneWheel specific, he likely tells mountain bikers about riding on muddy trails, or other things if he feels a positive outcome might come from his doing so.

Thanks for pointing that out - and I appreciate the good words you said about AB.  I have read many of his posts, and like I said in another post, had we bumped into each other on bikes, we would have probably hit it off.  I see his passion and respect all the work he does for the community.  Who knows, maybe one day we will be friends?

Let me try to clear this up - I was going to edit my post above, but its probably best to leave it and explain myself here.

AB said this in his first post of this thread:

"I encountered one and when I said "I don't think you are supposed to have electric vehicles on the trail" he let loose with a hell of a lot of expletives about bikers, and YES HE COULD ride anywhere he damn well pleased."

The timing of AB's post was amazing - I had just had an encounter with a biker at Walnut where a biker had yelled at us as he rode by and I thought - I bet this is him!   The first thing I did was look at his pictures on here to see if he was the guy that we were confronted by.  I have to say he has a striking resemblance.  I thought it was him.

I  was sad to see that AB's description of the encounter was not the same as mine.  I felt like he wasn't being completely honest.

In my encounter, the biker yelled at us "your not allowed on the trails with those things" or something similar as he rode by, and I yelled back "Oh yes we are, your wrong" or something like that.  No profanity, that's not my style.

It is certainly possible that AB and I have not come across each other, and we did not share that experience that I thought we shared.  Maybe we were with different people.  I  should give him the benefit of the doubt.  It is possible I guess that maybe it was someone else, but the timing of his post and his picture had me convinced.

So for that AB, I say I'm sorry.  Sorry for assuming you were telling a tall-tale about our interaction - maybe we didn't interact at all; you deserve the benefit of the doubt.

I thought at this point in the conversation, AB would recognize that the law is not as clear as he thought, and even if he was just "telling" people they are not allowed, he is stepping out of bounds.  Nothing good is coming from him telling us we are not allowed.  It creates resentment in the OW community towards bikers, and makes it more difficult to recruit OWs for trail maintenance.   The thought of having to work next to someone that doesn't want you there isn't a real motivator.

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1 hour ago, DirtSurfer said:

Sorry - I was trying to be funny and it didn't come across that way

 I don't think it was AustinBike who ran my friend off the road at all - I was jokingly asking him if he was down south, but I didn't really think he was.

I mentioned the incident with my friend to show how behavior can escalate. AB has admitted to "telling" people they are not allowed....but from our view it was yelling.  He didn't stop to talk, he just vented and rode off.

I probably should have just let it go and not addressed him about it again.  I feel frustrated that he still feels justified in his behavior,  after pouring so much effort in to explaining our side of the story.  We get yelled at by bikers all the time - its almost daily that one of us gets grief from a biker.  Here we have one of those bikers that yells at OWs, and I was hoping he might say he would stop doing it.

First, it was not me, as I am in Europe, roughly 6000 miles from the boardwalk. 

Second, you keep saying “you”, implying that somehow I am agitating your group. This is not the case. 

Finally, as I have said before neither your opinion nor my opinion matter, it is Austin PARD that matters. I continue to recommend that you work this out with them as they own the parks, not us. 

Hopefully you can get this all sorted out. 

Edited by AustinBike
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DirtSurfer, as you have pointed out, the only way to ever know for certain is to get it in court. I actually have some experience doing just that when I couldn't get my questions answered. It took years and a lot of hassle just to have three trips to the circus result in the case being dismissed (presumably for absence of jurisdiction) and no record being created to actually address the original question. So, if you go down that road there is a lot to learn about the tricks that can be pulled in order to manipulate the procedure once you actually get the matter into a court of record. (what happens in City court, J.P. court and other administrative venues have no bearing on case law)

For now, it is probably best to just be super-friendly and do the best you can to leave folks with a good impression.

Every time I ride my bike I consider myself an ambassador for the sport and firmly believe that each interaction with other trail users is important enough to put my best foot forward.

Edited by Ridenfool
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34 minutes ago, Teamsloan said:

Why would it surprise you to be "yelled" at (even aggressively) when you know that a large amount of mountain bikers view your trail use as a violation of park rules? Do you expect them to change their belief when you comment back that they're wrong?

You make a great point -

No, I don't expect them to change their beliefs from just a short yell, so why would they expect me to change my belief with just a yell?

 

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16 minutes ago, Ridenfool said:

For now, it is probably best to just be super-friendly and do the best you can to leave folks with a good impression.

 


And that's it right there.

Dicks will be dicks... F#k 'em.

Play with their minds a little if you feel like, but where the rubber hits the road they bring nothing of value.

The best anyone can do is be the best they can be and then keep on keeping on.

Yellers are going to yell. It's what they do to get themselves off.

And here's a little advice re. online forum discussions... Never get yourself entwined emotionally with anyone. You can poke, nudge, tickle, expose, set straight, get a rise out of, laugh at/with... But do so understanding that it's all pretty superficial, in the sense of expectations of others. Just bring something of yourself to the table, that at best others can profit by, with no expectations of gaining anything in return.

Kind of how life shoud be on a whole.

It's actually the basis of good community... Self-sacrifice for the betterment of others.

Very un-Murican within a wide segment of today's population. But don't be a sheple. Be your own person.

Edited by RidingAgain
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33 minutes ago, DirtSurfer said:

No, I don't expect them to change their beliefs from just a short yell, so why would they expect me to change my belief with just a yell?

Simply because you are the newcomer. Your interpretation of the law is new. The anus is on you justify yourself, not the established user abiding by "Old School" rules.

By the way, for the most part I think you are on the right track in building positive relationships with the biking community and changing the perception of the laws...for the most part. 🙂 But it's going to take time, patience, and some involvement by higher authorities (AB's point) to ever get fully accepted.

Edited by Teamsloan
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23 minutes ago, RidingAgain said:


And that's it right there.

Dicks will be dicks... F#k 'em.

Play with their minds a little if you feel like, but where the rubber hits the road they bring nothing of value.

The best anyone can do is be the best they can be and then keep on keeping on.

Yellers are going to yell. It's what they do to get themselves off.

And here's a little advice re. online forum discussions... Never get yourself entwined emotionally with anyone. You can poke, nudge, tickle, expose, set straight, get a rise out of, laugh at/with... But do so understanding that it's all pretty superficial, in the sense of expectations of others. Just bring something of yourself to the table, that at best others can profit by, with no expectations of gaining anything in return.

Kind of how life shoud be on a whole.

It's actually the basis of good community... Self-sacrifice for the betterment of others.

Very un-Murican within a wide segment of today's population. But don't be a sheple. Be your own person.

I agree completely -  thanks for the tip with the forum - I am certainly out of my element here, and passionate about OWs.  Sometimes when you believe in something so much, its hard to see how others could think differently. I want to win everyone over, despite knowing its unrealistic.

I'll keep doing what I do - thanks -

BTW - do you know what time and where to meet tomorrow for the Brush Creek work?

3 minutes ago, Teamsloan said:

Simply because you are the newcomer. Your interpretation of the law is new. The anus is on you justify yourself, not the established user abiding by "Old School" rules.

I agree with part of that. 

But for a second just pretend I was riding a Segway instead of a OW.  Would anything be different?  Despite the law being clear that Segways are allowed, AB would still be "telling" me "no motorized vehicles" as he rode by, and he may never stick around long enough to know why he is wrong.  He may just keep doing it.

I think the anus is on the person who tries to enforce the law- before they try to enforce laws, they need to know what law it is they think they are enforcing.

 

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