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Gravel Bike vs. Mountain Bike?


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I rode this weekend in California with some riders, mostly road, but some gravel. They were on gravel bikes. A couple were on e-MTBs. I got my ass handed to me on the climbs. Yeah, most of it was because they have been riding these routes for years and I was not ready for it.

Anyway, it got me thinking, what if I turned my steel hardtail into a gravel bike? It has a nice King/Stans Wheelset. Put a nice carbon fork on it, maybe some drop bars, some gravel tires, would it be an effective gravel bike? Or would I just be fooling myself because the geometries are way off?

Long term I may move out here and for the month of Santa Fe that we do every year might be just as good on a gravel bike, today I use a full rigid steel hardtail.

One thing I did not understand was their drive trains were basically 42T with 11-42T in the back. I was on a 32T with 11-36T in the back, so technically I was in an easier gear (but had 2.4" Ardents on the back...)

Any thoughts or input here?

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I run a 10/42 cassette with a 42 single ring on my Giant carbon CX bike with 42mm gravel tires. It's perfect for my round town East side trail loop or hitting the Gravel rides. I haven't been on my road bike in months.

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I just got a Lauf True Grit. You can buy their fork which will give you some suspension.

I've only gotten one ride on it. There is a trail behind my house that is mostly buff but has a little chunk. It handled it well. I'd consider riding it at Walnut or Rocky Hill. The Greenbelt and Deception or probably too chunky.

I'll be taking this bike to ride Alpine Loop up at Silverton this summer. Gravel riding is a nice change of pace from road riding.

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a lot of people do this with their older mtbs. definitely a fun idea for a bike that won't see technical terrain. three things to consider though:

  1. why drop bar? gravel bikes don't have to have a drop bar, and the obsession with drop bars is almost a fetish for some people. drop bars are great for aerodynamic gains and having a variety of hand positions for long rides. I don't think they help with climbing, and the aero gains probably don't mean much unless you're racing. a flat bar with bar ends or some kind of interesting alt-bar could be just as good. SQlabs "inner bar ends" are an interesting choice as well.
  2. if you go to a drop bar, you'll need to futz around with brakes and shifters quite a bit for it to work. pull ratios on mtn and road shifters and dreailers don't always play nice. you can make it work, but it might be a hassle.
  3. fit on a mountain bike is designed with a flat bar in mind, so the top tube is quite long. when you put a drop bar on that bike, the reach to the hoods and drop to the hooks is significantly longer. you'll need a shorter stem to make the fit feel reasonable, unless you're one of those gumby freaks who can fold at the waist and hold that position while pedaling for hours.

The Surly Corner bar is one of the few options that will at least let you use your old controls and get a drop bar-like position.

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my drop bar bikes climb much better than my mountain bikes even though the mtbs have lower gearing.  I suspect its mostly because of the rigid fork and less tire volume which results in less energy loss when pedaling slow and hard.  The skinnier tires also have less friction which would result in slightly less resistance.  

 

I did the chainring massacre a few weeks ago.  was a lot of fun.

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4 hours ago, JRIDER said:

my drop bar bikes climb much better than my mountain bikes even though the mtbs have lower gearing.  I suspect its mostly because of the rigid fork and less tire volume which results in less energy loss when pedaling slow and hard.  The skinnier tires also have less friction which would result in slightly less resistance.  

 

I did the chainring massacre a few weeks ago.  was a lot of fun.

This sounds similar to my issue.

To begin with, the Pike is big and heavy. It is spaced at 140mm and the bike (Vassago Verhauen) is really specced at 120mm max, so I am really raked out. Despite the fact that the rigid fork would have had no travel, I might have ended up better with a rigid fork that had less total fork height.

The other thing that concerns me is the drive train. In a max, it is 32T to 36T. When I look at gravel bikes, their max is 42T to 42T, so how, with less leverage (100% vs 112.5%), are they able to climb better? Is there a "secret sauce" tied to the front chainring size that I am missing?

Also, I know that the tires were pretty heavy; the more aggressive knobs of the Ardents did not help in getting traction on the gravel portions (and definitely did not help on the streets...)

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5 hours ago, mack_turtle said:

I rode the Texas Chainring Massacre on a Soma Juice one year and wrote about it here: https://sidewallthorn.blogspot.com/2016/12/the-versatile-soma-juice-steel-hardtail.html

Sorry, the photos died. I'll try to fix that.

I did the Castell grind on a Soma Juice singlespeed before I actually bought one. Not 100% sure since I did the race a few times, but I may have won my category on that bike.

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9 minutes ago, AustinBike said:

I did the Castell grind on a Soma Juice singlespeed before I actually bought one. Not 100% sure since I did the race a few times, but I may have won my category on that bike.

I have the First Place Singlespeed hammer on my mantle. I was the only singlespeeder!

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Playing around with Geometry Geeks, I have the following comparison of the Vassago to a Specialized Crux, which seems like a reasonable gravel bike:

802497469_Screenshot2023-03-06at4_52_45PM.thumb.jpg.01c9e0e76b05b6e516bf14d56c38ce07.jpg

It seems like the for length, axle to crown is a real issue (and assume another 20mm as I have it right now...)

The slacker head angle and seat angle probably have a large impact as well. I was surprised at the shorter chainstay, I had actually slid the sliders out a little more to maximize that before the ride assuming that it would help with the climbing to have a longer wheelbase (to help compensate for the over-specced fork...)

 

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5 hours ago, JRIDER said:

my drop bar bikes climb much better than my mountain bikes even though the mtbs have lower gearing.  I suspect its mostly because of the rigid fork and less tire volume which results in less energy loss when pedaling slow and hard.  The skinnier tires also have less friction which would result in slightly less resistance.

There's a lot more to it than gearing for sure. My mtb is usually singlespeed 32/20 with 29x2.4 or so tires. Gravel bike is noticably lighter with 650x47 tires and 38/17. I can absolutely smoke my mtb time on any non-technical climb (1826 south of Slaughter Creek Trail is a good example) on the gravel bike, even though the gearing is a lot higher. 

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My buddy has the new Giant Revolt X with a 40mm front suspension, a dropper, 53mm tires and the Sram wide range 1X. This bike literally shreds easy singletrack like the Nut. He brought it out to Terlinqua and said it was a blast.

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20 minutes ago, Bart said:

My buddy has the new Giant Revolt X with a 40mm front suspension, a dropper, 53mm tires and the Sram wide range 1X. This bike literally shreds easy singletrack like the Nut. He brought it out to Terlinqua and said it was a blast.

That is an interesting option.

I think my current trajectory is to look into conversion of my current Vassago. I have a steel rigid fork already so throwing some gravel tires on this bike with the Surly Corner Bar might allow me to have an inexpensive entry into a gravel bike without a ton of compromise. Then, if that works out I can tackle the drivetrain next.

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16 hours ago, AustinBike said:

I did the Castell grind on a Soma Juice singlespeed before I actually bought one. Not 100% sure since I did the race a few times, but I may have won my category on that bike.

1st year?... We finished that at the same time and youre right we would have won it, but there wasnt a SS category then.

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I really wanted a Flat Bar Gravel Bike while deciding what to get and since this was mid Covid it was a b@tch to find test bikes.. but for 6 months I hit about every shop and tested so many geometries before I found what I liked along the way and then waited 6 months for it to come in..

But alas- at Cycle Progression they had a guy come in with a his own custom build design that was a flat bar Gravel using 1/2 MTB and 1/2 Gravel components.  I didnt see it but they said it was a sweet ride when it was done.  What I also there was the SRAM AXS shifting and I was blown away how smooth it was.

I started with 650b x 53 tires that 1.... Flatted so many times and 2. were just too chunky to ride anywhere but on gravel.  Changed to a 43 tire now and its a great all around bike.  I also learned to lower the PSI on the dirt or you will get beat to h@ll.

Edited by Taco Man
clarify
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26 minutes ago, mack_turtle said:

I might not have been in the scene long enough to know there's an old one.

And, in unrelated day drinking notes ( from Tarantula Hill brewing in Ca) Ian Hunter is 84 years old  old. 
 

Also, to stay on target, the initial thought will be flat bars with bar ends.

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