ATXZJ Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) Crankworx Rotorua saw the first transgender competitor take 2nd in the women's DH yesterday. They were 4.80 seconds off #1 spot, but considering the field had some fairly seasoned riders and "kate" has only been riding for a few years, it's pretty obvious there's an issue here. MMA has seen some of this surface with one transgender M2F fighter actually fractured a competitors skull during a fight. My 2c: No matter how politically correct everyone tries to be about this, it is a complete disservice to female athletes who have trained and competed for years only to have a man who couldn't cut it against other men switch genders, and start crushing female competitors. I have no issues with someone wanting to play pretend for the rest of their life, but as athletes their body is as they were born, and that includes bone structure, muscle mass, metabolism and reaction times, ETC. The interesting thing about transgender in MTB will be waiting to see what sponsors/coaches will dive into the sh*tstorm and pick one of these riders up. That alone will probably keep the pack pretty lean. https://www.pinkbike.com/news/results-downhill-crankworx-rotorua-2019.html https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2018/03/a-level-playing-field/ Edited March 22, 2019 by ATXZJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 If you think that someone switches genders only to gain a competitive advantage in a sport then I think you are misguided. Seriously. I won't take a position on what is fair in racing as I am not a racer, but the idea that someone decides to swap genders to gain an advantage is disingenuous at best. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXZJ Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 1 minute ago, AustinBike said: If you think that someone switches genders only to gain a competitive advantage in a sport then I think you are misguided. Seriously. I won't take a position on what is fair in racing as I am not a racer, but the idea that someone decides to swap genders to gain an advantage is disingenuous at best. I'm not at all saying it's their motive, but it certainly doesn't put M2F at a disadvantage does it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Not really. Most of the women I ride with can kick my ass on the trails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXZJ Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, AustinBike said: Not really. Most of the women I ride with can kick my ass on the trails. That's a bit anecdotal compared to professional sports. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 I don't even want to touch this topic, but I don't think anyone is "deciding to swap genders for a competitive edge." 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonioGG Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) This is so more nuanced and difficult than your first take. I get how this is unfair when it comes from competition (I personally know someone and know the women she ran against and there were mixed feelings not always expressed aloud), but there are many levels and layers to this going all the way to genetics. You've heard of Caster Semenya right? That's another example of this and it's so difficult to deal with. I don't envy the sports organizations that have to make these decisions. There will be upset people on one side or the other no matter what they decide. Edited March 22, 2019 by AntonioGG may-->many 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anita Handle Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 So there is "everyone that swaps genders does it to gain an advantage" and there is "what if someone games the system and swaps genders to gain advantage?" and "what if the gender change is sincere but leaves that person with an inherent advantage?" No one is claiming the former. The latter are valid concerns and it has and will happen. Also, we are not at extreme end of elite sports so comparing professional women to normal weekend warriors is not valid. Any and every top pro woman UCI racer would kick any and all of our asses on any day. But that's not what we're comparing here. There is a clear jump in watts/kg when you go to the top pro men. How to deal with potential ethics issues is going to be a huge challenge. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tip Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 1 hour ago, mack_turtle said: I don't even want to touch this topic, but I don't think anyone is "deciding to swap genders for a competitive edge." Yes, maybe not for competitive mountain biking. But if a man that was pretty good at tennis or golf thought that he could make millions by switching genders I would guess there would be someone that would do it. Not me of course. OK, probably not me. But the motive is not ATXZJ's concern. It's more about the results. Renee Richards sued and won to be able to compete in tennis as a woman. So there is already court precedence in this matter. Although, "Richards has since expressed ambivalence about her legacy, and came to believe her past as a man provided her with advantages over her competitors, saying "Having lived for the past 30 years, I know if I'd had surgery at the age of 22, and then at 24 went on the tour, no genetic woman in the world would have been able to come close to me. And so I've reconsidered my opinion." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, The Tip said: Not me of course. OK, probably not me. Don't worry, we won't judge you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notyal Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 25 minutes ago, The Tip said: Yes, maybe not for competitive mountain biking. But if a man that was pretty good at tennis or golf thought that he could make millions by switching genders I would guess there would be someone that would do it. Not me of course. OK, probably not me. But the motive is not ATXZJ's concern. It's more about the results. Renee Richards sued and won to be able to compete in tennis as a woman. So there is already court precedence in this matter. Although, "Richards has since expressed ambivalence about her legacy, and came to believe her past as a man provided her with advantages over her competitors, saying "Having lived for the past 30 years, I know if I'd had surgery at the age of 22, and then at 24 went on the tour, no genetic woman in the world would have been able to come close to me. And so I've reconsidered my opinion." Haha. "Court precedence". Because it's tennis. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridenfool Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, notyal said: Haha. "Court precedence". Because it's tennis. If there were no Tennis Court precedence someone would have made a racket about it just the same. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 I am sure the tennis court will serve justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tip Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Y'all have some balls punning about tennis. Don't string us along though, I'd love to have them all out in the Open right now. I'm dead set on that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXZJ Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, mack_turtle said: I don't even want to touch this topic, but I don't think anyone is "deciding to swap genders for a competitive edge." I want to make it clear that was not my assertion and hope we don't get lost in the weeds because of that perception. If my post came across as such, then i apologize. The fact are this: When racing as Anton Weatherly the results were average/below the rest of the pack. Racing as Kate Weatherly there have been podium finishes including a NZ DH 1st place finish https://www.rootsandrain.com/rider54373/anton-weatherly/results/ Also that same reluctance to get involved with a topic like this will probably influence sponsors who want to avoid the e-mess revolt from taking any stance on trans athletes. 3 hours ago, AntonioGG said: Caster Semenya Yes I have been following this and the general consensus among sanctioning bodies and medical professionals is testosterone levels are not the only factor in biology and need more research before imposing new rules. Funny thing is all the anti-doping steps that are taken to level the playing field, yet we bury our heads in the sand when it comes to actual physical differences between men and women. Its an (adams) apple to oranges comparison Sorry....had to Edited March 22, 2019 by ATXZJ 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidingAgain Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Perhaps one day there won't be any gender division in sports... As the saying goes... Run what ya brung. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXZJ Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, RidingAgain said: Perhaps one day there won't be any gender division in sports... As the saying goes... Run what ya brung. I'd be down with establishing trans classes in sports and let the marketplace sort it out. Edited March 22, 2019 by ATXZJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridenfool Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, The Tip said: Y'all have some balls punning about tennis. Don't string us along though, I'd love to have them all out in the Open right now. I'm dead set on that. Is it safe to say with that volley you got all remaining puns over the net? Perhaps not, but you gotta love how this derailment has taken this into foul territory. Edited March 22, 2019 by Ridenfool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXZJ Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 Ill see your foul territory and raise you with kyle dunnigan on the subject of cutting your c@ck off (warning naughty words and content) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anita Handle Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 1 hour ago, RidingAgain said: Perhaps one day there won't be any gender division in sports... As the saying goes... Run what ya hung. ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinerider Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 I don't want to research it, but I wonder if there is a case of a woman who trans'd to a man, taking hormone treatments, overtook the men due to the medications. University grant, here I come! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tip Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ridenfool said: Is it safe to say with that volley you got all remaining puns over the net? Perhaps not, but you gotta love how this derailment has taken this into foul territory. Oops! It's not my fault that you lost because you reused a word. But I won't judge you on that. And that's not just some cheesy line either. I also apologize to you non-punners. You are all probably wondering what the deuce is going on here. Sorry. Edited March 22, 2019 by The Tip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tip Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) Edited to say that I took my medication and I think I can stop now. Edited March 22, 2019 by The Tip 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridenfool Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Tip said: Oops! It's not my fault that you lost because you reused a word. But I won't judge you on that. And that's not just some cheesy line either. To be clear, you are absolutely right. I am embarrassed for having used the word twice. Not offended in the least. My sad above was me being sad for having done that, and particularly for getting caught at it by a cunning linguist. 😀 Always enjoy a good pun-off, just not enough to have ever made it to O'Henry's for the annual Masochistic event hosted there, but just enough to be aware of its existence. Edited March 22, 2019 by Ridenfool 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 It's straight up bullshit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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