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ATXZJ

Well, it's MTB turn to deal with this

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4 hours ago, ATXZJ said:

I'd be down with establishing trans classes in sports and let the marketplace sort it out. 

And the plot thickens.

Some months ago a FB friend posted something to do with this whole trans matter. I asked a simply question and got attacked for asking it. No one actually answered the question, and it was a perfectly reasonable question to ask.

I guess some folk simply don't think getting clarity on things is a proper course to take.

Unless, of course, it personally affects them.

The way of the world these days.

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Shinerider said:

I don't want to research it, but I wonder if there is a case of a woman who trans'd to a man, taking hormone treatments, overtook the men due to the medications.  University grant, here I come!

The procedure is called an adadichtomy.

Edited by JRA
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Wait . . . So this is no longer weird?  I thought that because Jodi is a lesbian, it was ok.  Or was that before we got a "T" added to LGB?  I'm confused . . . maybe even more so than they.

TWYE.gif

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On 3/22/2019 at 2:47 PM, RidingAgain said:

Perhaps one day there won't be any gender division in sports... 

As the saying goes...

Run what ya brung.

This is pretty much my stance on it. Just open it up and I'm sure there will be people who step up to the challenge.

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Posted (edited)

bluntly put IMO, anyone who denies or acts oblivious to the scientific facts that men have physiological advantages over women is either in denial or ignorant to the subject. size, muscle mass, bone structure, etc etc

 

On 3/22/2019 at 10:15 AM, AustinBike said:

Not really. Most of the women I ride with can kick my ass on the trails. 

lets look at the real deal big time pro's time comparisons and also the local racing scene's times between the men and women. men's vs women times aren't even close AT ALL! 1st place mens vs 1st place women in elite were 5 MINUTES apart, 10 minutes apart in the lesser classes. the same goes for the local enduro racing scene - Last weekend at Camp eagle - 1st place pro (Carson lange) was like 19:27 and 1st place pro (Cindy abbott) was like 26:00 or something. 

 

how can you even argue with that?

 

Screen Shot 2019-03-26 at 12.00.22 PM.png

Edited by Seths Pool
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I wish there was an easier way. It'll be nice to race in the less competitive female class, but I will miss the convenience of peeing standing up. 

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4 hours ago, Seths Pool said:

bluntly put IMO, anyone who denies or acts oblivious to the scientific facts that men have physiological advantages over women is either in denial or ignorant to the subject. size, muscle mass, bone structure, etc etc

 

lets look at the real deal big time pro's time comparisons and also the local racing scene's times between the men and women. men's vs women times aren't even close AT ALL! 1st place mens vs 1st place women in elite were 5 MINUTES apart, 10 minutes apart in the lesser classes. the same goes for the local enduro racing scene - Last weekend at Camp eagle - 1st place pro (Carson lange) was like 19:27 and 1st place pro (Cindy abbott) was like 26:00 or something. 

 

how can you even argue with that?

 

Screen Shot 2019-03-26 at 12.00.22 PM.png

crickets much?

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, notyal said:

I wish there was an easier way. It'll be nice to race in the less competitive female class, but I will miss the convenience of peeing standing up. 

 

Here, use this for your vagina!

 1-PC-Portable-Outdoor-Women-Urinal-Tool-

Edited by Schrute

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Seths Pool said:

crickets much?

My wife and i had a discussion about this over drinks on sunday. Her opinion was similar to another on here as to just do away with mens/womens categories all together and let the best rise to the top. I don't think that's a very practical idea as females could be so far down in the pack they'd probably just give up. However, i might enjoy the bloodbath of seeing coed contact sports like the NFL, boxing and MMA. Who am I to stop anyone dumb enough to get on the field/in the ring with some of these athletes😵

I think a separate trans class for DH/XC would be perfect way to shut everyone up. Use a ladder for F2M racing same and M2F racing one another until finals. Fastest trans VS fastest trans regardless of what their chromosomes are. Fair is fair right? No such thing as gender advantage in sports?.....lets find out in the trans league.

Edited by ATXZJ
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bluntly put IMO, anyone who denies or acts oblivious to the scientific facts that men have physiological advantages over women is either in denial or ignorant to the subject. size, muscle mass, bone structure, etc etc
 
lets look at the real deal big time pro's time comparisons and also the local racing scene's times between the men and women. men's vs women times aren't even close AT ALL! 1st place mens vs 1st place women in elite were 5 MINUTES apart, 10 minutes apart in the lesser classes. the same goes for the local enduro racing scene - Last weekend at Camp eagle - 1st place pro (Carson lange) was like 19:27 and 1st place pro (Cindy abbott) was like 26:00 or something. 
 
how can you even argue with that?
 
1214209064_ScreenShot2019-03-26at12_00_22PM.thumb.png.7f306c76f28f1e56d9839a4ad56641d0.png
To your point...
My daughter swims club and school so I asked her thoughts on this.
To my surprise she said she would be pissed if she was at the the block and asked to swim against a person like this. She said it wouldn't be fair.
If he/she used to be dude swimming against girls that person would have the build, strength, size and mass and lungs of a dude and not a chick. She went on to say that no matter what this person wants to change or think they are they are still essentially a dude in girls suit and they would smoke any girl in the pool most likely. It wouldn't be fair to ask girls to swim against a guy because we are different in so many ways.


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57 minutes ago, Schrute said:

 

Here, use this for your vagina!

 1-PC-Portable-Outdoor-Women-Urinal-Tool-

Haha, I bought my daughters this for when were on road trips. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣, it didnt go over well.

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3 hours ago, Seths Pool said:

crickets much?

I agree with you, I made the same argument: with elite men vs elite women there are big gaps in performance. CIndy Abbot will kick my ass left, right and center but compared to a male pro, it would not be fair race. 

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Here's my take and take it for what you will.  I am transgender, MtF. Oh I'm in Waco so you don't have to worry about sharing the trails with me. I'm mixed on the whole thing. So much that I will not enter any race or competition. I would love to but know this would happen. So I just ride for the fun of it. I can say that because I am on hormones that I have lost a lot of muscle mass. Estrogen isn't the idea hormone to be if you want muscles. Bones don't change so I can't say much about that. I would love to be alive for the day that this is solved and everyone is happy. There is no easy answer other than what has been said about making it all one class. Guess you can keep the age divisions.  Most leagues require testosterone levels to be under 10ng/dL and they have to have proof it has been like this for at least 6 months. I don't think most people will do this just to win a race. There is a lot of potential health issues that can come from hormone replacement therapy.

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18 minutes ago, Leafkiller said:

Here's my take and take it for what you will.  I am transgender, MtF. Oh I'm in Waco so you don't have to worry about sharing the trails with me.

 

 There is no easy answer other than what has been said about making it all one class. Guess you can keep the age divisions.  

 

I don't think most people will do this just to win a race. There is a lot of potential health issues that can come from hormone replacement therapy.

thanks for your input from the other side of the fence. definitely adds to the thread.

its not that anyone here doesn't want to ride or share trails with you, this is not about hate or prejudice or anyofthatothershit. its about fairness in the world of competitive sports. dont be passive aggressive. 

"guess we can keep the age divisions" - again, its mainly about fairness, and just simply categorized competition! I dont really want to see the Dallas Cowboys demolish a middle school pee-wee football team (actually i might actually want to see that) any more than id wanna see a biological man smash a womans face and skull in an MMA match. and besides, what's wrong with a little divisions between groups? its ok that everyone and everything isn't just one big blob of everythings-the-sameness. classifications are a good thing. unless you take everything personal and make yourself feel all left out about everything unnecessarily. bummer. 

 

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thanks for your input from the other side of the fence. definitely adds to the thread.
its not that anyone here doesn't want to ride or share trails with you, this is not about hate or prejudice or anyofthatothershit. its about fairness in the world of competitive sports. dont be passive aggressive. 
"guess we can keep the age divisions" - again, its mainly about fairness, and just simply categorized competition! I dont really want to see the Dallas Cowboys demolish a middle school pee-wee football team (actually i might actually want to see that) any more than id wanna see a biological man smash a womans face and skull in an MMA match. and besides, what's wrong with a little divisions between groups? its ok that everyone and everything isn't just one big blob of everythings-the-sameness. classifications are a good thing. unless you take everything personal and make yourself feel all left out about everything unnecessarily. bummer. 
 
After some seasons I think the pee wee team would beat the Cowboys.

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2 hours ago, Leafkiller said:

Here's my take and take it for what you will.  I am transgender, MtF. Oh I'm in Waco so you don't have to worry about sharing the trails with me. I'm mixed on the whole thing. So much that I will not enter any race or competition. I would love to but know this would happen. So I just ride for the fun of it. I can say that because I am on hormones that I have lost a lot of muscle mass. Estrogen isn't the idea hormone to be if you want muscles. Bones don't change so I can't say much about that. I would love to be alive for the day that this is solved and everyone is happy. There is no easy answer other than what has been said about making it all one class. Guess you can keep the age divisions.  Most leagues require testosterone levels to be under 10ng/dL and they have to have proof it has been like this for at least 6 months. I don't think most people will do this just to win a race. There is a lot of potential health issues that can come from hormone replacement therapy.

a) It seems that you agree that it is a complex topic, not easily resolved.

b) I'd ride and have a beer/mimosa with you any time. I cannot imagine the experience of feeling that my body is such a mismatch for who I feel I am that the challenges of a transition would be better than the status quo. Welcome to the forum and community!

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1 hour ago, Anita Handle said:

a) It seems that you agree that it is a complex topic, not easily resolved.

b) I'd ride and have a beer/mimosa with you any time. I cannot imagine the experience of feeling that my body is such a mismatch for who I feel I am that the challenges of a transition would be better than the status quo. Welcome to the forum and community!

Ed, you may remember an old mojo that we used to ride with that went mtf but moved to Oregon before the process started. Planning to look her up when I get out that way again. I think you hit the nail on the head with "mismatch". A lot of people think that these issues are so cut and dried, but it's really a million shades of grey and lots of in-between situations. So many of us take these things for granted.

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3 hours ago, Leafkiller said:

Here's my take and take it for what you will.  I am transgender, MtF. 

I'm going to come right out and say thank you for providing some insight that this conversation was sorely lacking.  Big props.

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4 hours ago, Leafkiller said:

Here's my take and take it for what you will. 

Thanks for providing the take.  I'm not easily offended, but I am offended by your handle (my name is Leif).😁

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Thank you all. I do need to go to Austin more and try out the trails. I also want to hit the rocks as well. I love climbing.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Leafkiller said:

Here's my take and take it for what you will.  I am transgender, MtF.

 


And there it is... A view from someone actually experiencing the matter from a transgender POV.

And what is being said is that, in their view, the matter is complicated.

But why?

Is freedom complicated?

Only when it's individual freedom being sought in a community of individuals.

But check this wonderful disposition out...

Leafkiller says... "I'm mixed on the whole thing. So much that I will not enter any race or competition."

You know what that is?

It's being humble for the sake of the wider community.


In other words... There's a self sacrifice being made.

And self sacrifice, with a view to peaceful progress, is what good and proper community is built on.

Thank you, Leafkiller.

Edited by RidingAgain
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6 hours ago, Leafkiller said:

Estrogen isn't the idea hormone to be if you want muscles. 

Tell me about it - at 60 I'm getting breasts that I don't want! 

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Tell me about it - at 60 I'm getting breasts that I don't want! 
But they are fun to play with. It just hurts to do much without a bra.

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Leafkiller said:

But they are fun to play with. It just hurts to do much without a bra.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

the bikemojo.com in me feels like this thread is about to take an interesting turn. lol

giphy.gif

Edited by Seths Pool
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