RedRider3141 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 1 hour ago, AntonioGG said: Wow! The "fork" flexes a ton on some of those bikes. Since on some others it seems the flex is less, am I really noticing the frame flexing? Also, check out the handlebar flex. Pretty cool video. As an Engineer, all machines even the big 'ol 'merican V8 is just a floppy bag of parts. Minimize and control of the flex is all you can do. I'm actually shocked it's taken this long for MTB forks to go inverted (at least sorta mainstream) and large diameter (40mm+) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridenfool Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 The effects of the flexy bits on telescopic fork operation do bolster the advantages linkage forks like the Trust and Motion products offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXZJ Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 9 minutes ago, RedRider3141 said: As an Engineer, all machines even the big 'ol 'merican V8 is just a floppy bag of parts. Minimize and control of the flex is all you can do. This^ Most of the flex is designed in to minimize fatigue. A good example of this is cast VS billet steel parts in engines like cranks, rods etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ridenfool said: The effects of the flexy bits on telescopic fork operation do bolster the advantages linkage forks like the Trust and Motion products offer. Telescopic fork operation does provide (financial) advantages over linkage forks. Pretty sure the $1300 linkage fork would be more than the cost of my hardtail, all in. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridenfool Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, AustinBike said: Telescopic fork operation does provide (financial) advantages over linkage forks. Pretty sure the $1300 linkage fork would be more than the cost of my hardtail, all in. Cost is a factor of production, as determined by demand. If production levels of linkage designs made it to those needed to bring the price into a competitive range with telescopic, the functional aspect would favor the linkage design, would it not? Sure, it isn't worth considering in any practical sense on a budget build at the current prices, but, price won't keep me from following the development in hopes that the tech might break out into the mainstream as riders realize the advantage improved rear suspension designs have brought over the years now being applied to the front as well. Features such as no/reduced brake dive, constant wheelbase, unchanging steering angle in turns, and so on are enticing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree Magnet Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Everything flexes under load. Understanding that flex and designing around it are what keeps things from breaking. Modern telescopic forks flex and the designers know it and yet they continue to function just fine. Personally, I can’t feel the fork flex and it doesn’t impact my experience so I’ll spend my $1300 on different parts before I drop it on a linkage fork.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridenfool Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 11 minutes ago, Tree Magnet said: Personally, I can’t feel the fork flex and it doesn’t impact my experience so I’ll spend my $1300 on different parts before I drop it on a linkage fork. We have adapted to the way the fork works and won't "feel" it unless the experience changes. Like the way we don't notice the blind spot in our vision the optic nerve causes where it attaches to the retina. I don't think I could tell the difference without riding both back to back. This video shares the perspective of riding a new linkage fork on familiar trails. The rider, Ali Clarkson, ain't no slouch either. I'd buy one of these if I were within the weight range for the one size of Wave spring currently being offered. Now, back to the regularly-scheduled Hardtail build suspension fork discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted March 27, 2019 Author Share Posted March 27, 2019 (edited) Just skip to about 7:50 to see him ride the thing. Edited March 27, 2019 by mack_turtle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridenfool Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 (edited) Looks flexy ... 🤣 Edited March 27, 2019 by Ridenfool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBaron Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 3 hours ago, mack_turtle said: Just skip to about 7:50 to see him ride the thing. That guy has a great YT channel! I've dug around there a bit in the past. IMHO his spring bike would cause you to smooth out your pedal stroke really quickly. -CJB 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRider3141 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 3 hours ago, mack_turtle said: Just skip to about 7:50 to see him ride the thing. This video actually does alot to show how much lateral load there is on the frame. My gut check said that this thing was going to spread out like a beach cruiser on a 30ft table but it makes a sense now seeing it that the springs are softest in the side-to-side direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonioGG Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, CBaron said: That guy has a great YT channel! I've dug around there a bit in the past. IMHO his spring bike would cause you to smooth out your pedal stroke really quickly. -CJB I've been wanting to build a steel walled and roofed bunker and some magnetic books so I can walk upside down. Edited March 27, 2019 by AntonioGG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 On 3/27/2019 at 11:20 AM, mack_turtle said: Just skip to about 7:50 to see him ride the thing. Designed by and approved by dentists the world over. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larlev Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 45 minutes ago, AustinBike said: Designed by and approved by dentists the world over. Holy crap that was funny. I'm in costco.....supposedly working and busted out laughing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 I’m only good for one a day. Tip your waitress, I’m outta here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted March 29, 2019 Author Share Posted March 29, 2019 Interesting experience from last night: rode the Merdian trails in far-south Austin and took one of the "ledge" lines. I have ridden that area at least a dozen times but I somehow missed the line with the biggest ledge at the end so far. I took that line and was not prepared for that last ledge, thinking it would be one of the smaller ledges that I have rolled a dozen times. I kind of panicked at the last second as my front tire hit the landing at a too-steep angle and I nose-wheelied for a second, anticipating an OTB. I somehow landed straddling the bike while my shoes slid on the grass for a second and walked away with only a pedal scrape on my leg. I think that would have ended badly if I had a shorter fork (and even on rigid!) and probably would have been smoother if my effective head tube angle was more relaxed or had a longer fork. that does not mean that I want a slacked out enduro bro bike because of ONE instance over the course of a 15-mile ride, but it illustrates the point of where the longer front end comes in handy. A better solution is not to ride lines that are new to me blindly and take ledge drops with more speed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXZJ Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 11 minutes ago, mack_turtle said: Interesting experience from last night: rode the Merdian trails in far-south Austin and took one of the "ledge" lines. I have ridden that area at least a dozen times but I somehow missed the line with the biggest ledge at the end so far. I took that line and was not prepared for that last ledge, thinking it would be one of the smaller ledges that I have rolled a dozen times. I kind of panicked at the last second as my front tire hit the landing at a too-steep angle and I nose-wheelied for a second, anticipating an OTB. I somehow landed straddling the bike while my shoes slid on the grass for a second and walked away with only a pedal scrape on my leg. I think that would have ended badly if I had a shorter fork (and even on rigid!) and probably would have been smoother if my effective head tube angle was more relaxed or had a longer fork. that does not mean that I want a slacked out enduro bro bike because of ONE instance over the course of a 15-mile ride, but it illustrates the point of where the longer front end comes in handy. A better solution is not to ride lines that are new to me blindly and take ledge drops with more speed! Had a few of those in my time too, glad all you had were some scrapes......and yes some speed on drops is your friend. FWIW, i ride my XC rig on some of the same trails as you and it has a 66* HTA and never feels lazy, slacked or enduro bro. Nimble to me means twitchy, and takes too much energy/focus to keep the bike under control rather than just plowing ahead and having fun. I've spent the last 2-3 years riding bikes with 64-66* HTA, including 29ers, and i'll never go back to twitchy. You're welcome to take my bike for a spin the next time im over there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted March 29, 2019 Author Share Posted March 29, 2019 I keep coming back to this: http://www.handbuiltbicyclenews.com/c23-bicycles/328-nakeds-framebuilder-notes-on-a-prototype 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonioGG Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 16 minutes ago, mack_turtle said: I keep coming back to this: http://www.handbuiltbicyclenews.com/c23-bicycles/328-nakeds-framebuilder-notes-on-a-prototype That's very interesting reading for me right now as I'm trying to figure out why my P29er feels much faster than my Czar in the really tight and twisty sections at Peddler's Pass. Would it be too much of a generalization to conclude with: if you're a tweener as far as frame size, then go with the larger frame? It used to be thought that going with the smaller one was better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted March 29, 2019 Author Share Posted March 29, 2019 33 minutes ago, ATXZJ said: You're welcome to take my bike for a spin the next time im over there. That sounds like a liability in that it might make me want a new bike. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpomtb Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 (edited) 74 seat tube, 67.5 headtube with 120mm Fox Factory 34. (original artwork by Steve Garro) 27.5X2.8s on WTB I-35s/ Edited March 30, 2019 by kpomtb 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Don’t blame me for the rain. Hardtail is finished. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree Magnet Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Is that a Jabber? Very nice AB!!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Great color. I have a pipe cutter you could borrow for that fork... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBaron Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 4 hours ago, kpomtb said: 74 seat tube, 67.5 headtube with 120mm Fox Factory 34. (original artwork by Steve Garro) 27.5X2.8s on WTB I-35s/ So are you having a Coconino made? Is it coming or already done? -CJB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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