Anita Handle Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Thomsons are/were known to break at the faceplate. I personally know of at least three. They were also once the most commonly used high end stem so statistics would bear out that you'd see a few fail. But that is the only failure mode that I know about with Thomson and I don't know of any other stems failing within the circle of people I ride with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 3 hours ago, RidingAgain said: I was just looking for a short stem on eBay and saw some no-name items from China. Got me thinking about stem breakage. Only had this happen once to me — a Thomson faceplate broke by where the screw hole is, tighten too much possibly — but a Google search turns up all sorts of stem breaks. Anyone have this happen to them? A few Thomson faceplate breaks. One was not covered under warranty, some of the others were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfly Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 I've broken 2 different aluminum frames, which snapped pretty cleanly and suddenly. Have never broken a carbon frame, even though I ride alot harder now on my carbon frames than I did on those aluminum frames. That makes me feel more comfortable with carbon handlebars than aluminum. Is there something wrong with that conclusion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seths Pool Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 18 hours ago, mcfly said: I've broken 2 different aluminum frames, which snapped pretty cleanly and suddenly. Have never broken a carbon frame, even though I ride alot harder now on my carbon frames than I did on those aluminum frames. That makes me feel more comfortable with carbon handlebars than aluminum. Is there something wrong with that conclusion? I cant tell if thats a serious question or not. it reads almost like you made some type of weird grade-school-math-book riddle out of it or something. lol. "if a train is going 75mph headed north on train tracks 13 miles long, how long does it take for XXXXXX" and when your aluminums frames snapped, did the failure all in itself cause you to loose control of your bike and crash like you would if your handlebars snapped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfly Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 16 minutes ago, Seths Pool said: I cant tell if thats a serious question or not. it reads almost like you made some type of weird grade-school-math-book riddle out of it or something. lol. "if a train is going 75mph headed north on train tracks 13 miles long, how long does it take for XXXXXX" and when your aluminums frames snapped, did the failure all in itself cause you to loose control of your bike and crash like you would if your handlebars snapped? Apologies that the way I asked that question was confusing to you. In other words, in my personal experience, I've had 2 aluminum failures and zero carbon failures. This makes me think, in general, that carbon is more reliable than aluminum. Are there studies or data out there that say that carbon is more likely to fail than aluminum? Are failure rates between carbon and aluminum different for handlebars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfly Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 By the way, yes this is a serious question. I'm totally open to the fact that my limited experience may not represent carbon vs aluminum failures in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seths Pool Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 minute ago, mcfly said: Apologies that the way I asked that question was confusing to you. In other words, in my personal experience, I've had 2 aluminum failures and zero carbon failures. This makes me think, in general, that carbon is more reliable than aluminum. Are there studies or data out there that say that carbon is more likely to fail than aluminum? Are failure rates between carbon and aluminum different for handlebars? well, id say we need more information to come to an educated conclusion. if we were talking strictly statistics, aluminum would probably show higher failures because its been around much longer and had more people riding aluminum. simple numbers game. that may be changing now that carbon is so popular. ive broken 1 aluminum frame, and multiple carbon frames. and just to compare apples to apple (frames to frames) and not apple to oranges (frames to handlebars), although same material, they are different. if a frame breaks, the consequence is going to be much different more than likely over breaking a carbon handlebar mid ride. ive broken 3 pairs of carbon bars, never broke an aluminum handlebar. and ive broken 1 aluminum frame and multiple carbon frames. my conclusion is opposite of yours but I guess just ride whatever you prefer. my evidence and experiences dont apply to everyone 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienSP Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 I think application has a significant impact on the failures. Seth, you seem to put some extreme loads on your equipment and you last sentence makes sense. I have a pair of carbon bars that have been used over 6 years, 50-60 races, and spend their fair share of time on the BCGB. They will never see a 4-6ft drop, and be well within the stress/strain curve, far away from the ultimate strength. As mentioned by others, I use a torque wrench on about everything, sand out the inside of brake/or stem clamps to de-flash any non-circular attributes before installation. I've had a really good history with carbon frames (Pivot usually overbuilds), wheels, cranks, and handlebars. Weight of the bike has a huge impact over a 2-3 hour XC race, and I'm by no means a pro. I've lost the podium too many times by seconds and I'm not getting any younger. Like many of you guys, I've got a mix of aluminum failures (frames, 2 XTR cranks, handlebars, wheels, Thomson seatpost) as well as carbon (RF Next crankset, rock damage to Enve wheel-both w/free replacements). I'm probably due for a new handlebar this fall and wouldn't pawn it off on any of you, even for free. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Whenever carbon has broken on my bike, it has happened in stages and there was a convenient cracking sound that let me know what was happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienSP Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 My RF carbon cranks had a noticeable tick to it on one of the downstrokes; this was on a 3 week old Pivot Switchblade. I must have disassembled the cranks and chainring interface 3x looking for the tick. Rode through the summer, two weeks at Angelfire, and the subsequent weekend the crank arm finally gave up on my first run at the Flat Creek Enduro. Non-catastrophic failure in the end, but I should have not ignored the 5 month warning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXZJ Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 2 hours ago, AlienSP said: My RF carbon cranks had a noticeable tick to it on one of the downstrokes; this was on a 3 week old Pivot Switchblade. I must have disassembled the cranks and chainring interface 3x looking for the tick. Rode through the summer, two weeks at Angelfire, and the subsequent weekend the crank arm finally gave up on my first run at the Flat Creek Enduro. Non-catastrophic failure in the end, but I should have not ignored the 5 month warning. That sucks man. ive heard thats somewhat common on some RF cranks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throet Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 I bit the bullet and just ordered a new Renthal Carbon Lite bar to replace my 2-yr old banged up Renthal Carbon bar. I hated spending that kind of money to replace something that's technically not broken, but there seem to be plenty of solid opinions that carbon bars, especially ridden hard and crashed multiple times, should be periodically replaced. The post above regarding a ticking noise really got me concerned too, as I generally haven't paid attention to the many noises that my bike makes. It's hard for me to distinguish internally routed cable rattle from other sounds, but I was definitely hearing a distinctive ticking sound coming from the cockpit on rough terrain. I put an old aluminum bar on the bike for a couple of rides, and didn't seem to hear that same noise. Could just be that this thread has gotten in my head. Might be interesting though to slice my old carbon bars in half length-wise to see if there is any apparent damage. Side note - on just those two rides with my old aluminum bars the harshness was quite evident. I wish there was a better selection of titanium bars on the market, which apparently are stronger than both aluminum and carbon, yet better at reducing vibrations than either of the alternatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cafeend Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 (edited) I’ve been very pleased with the Spank Oozy 760s Vibrocore bars. No more pain in my shoulders or wrists A lot less roughness Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited September 21, 2018 by Cafeend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yosmithy Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Cafeend said: I’ve been very pleased with the Spank Vibrum bars. No more pain in my shoulders or wrists A lot less roughness Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk You peer pressured me into a set of them. I like, but I'm still sending you the bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Yosmithy said: You peer pressured me into a set of them. I like, but I'm still sending you the bill. Sounds fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMentallo Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 7 hours ago, Cafeend said: I’ve been very pleased with the Spank Oozy 760s Vibrocore bars. No more pain in my shoulders or wrists A lot less roughness 4 hours ago, Yosmithy said: You peer pressured me into a set of them. I like, but I'm still sending you the bill. Do they make that much of a difference? I mean I have a perfectly good set of handlebars now. Is it worth the upgrade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cafeend Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 8 hours ago, Yosmithy said: You peer pressured me into a set of them. I like, but I'm still sending you the bill. How about the next time you are in El Paso , you stop by Pepes Tamales ,, Bring me back some of those bad boys and Ill pay you ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cafeend Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 4 hours ago, MrMentallo said: Do they make that much of a difference? I mean I have a perfectly good set of handlebars now. Is it worth the upgrade? They are standard al. bars but filled with some sort of solidified gel. The idea being the gel absorbs vibrations. Does it work? I can say yes. I noticed a big difference off the bat. The rides were not quite as harsh, allowing me to add more pressure to the front tire and not run so soft. I do not encounter soreness in my wrist like before or in my shoulders. (mind you they are wider then my other bars were so that might be a good factor in the shoulder aspect) If I rode primarily something like Walnut where it is not what I would call rocky and harsh then I wouldnt bother. If you ride LGT, BC, CP or the GB where the chunk and shake factor is much higher then yes. The weight penalty is minimal and the ROI in places like that is good. They are not pricey , especially on sale 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 13 hours ago, throet said: I bit the bullet and just ordered a new Renthal Carbon Lite bar to replace my 2-yr old banged up Renthal Carbon bar. I hated spending that kind of money to replace something that's technically not broken, but there seem to be plenty of solid opinions that carbon bars, especially ridden hard and crashed multiple times, should be periodically replaced. The post above regarding a ticking noise really got me concerned too, as I generally haven't paid attention to the many noises that my bike makes. It's hard for me to distinguish internally routed cable rattle from other sounds, but I was definitely hearing a distinctive ticking sound coming from the cockpit on rough terrain. I put an old aluminum bar on the bike for a couple of rides, and didn't seem to hear that same noise. Could just be that this thread has gotten in my head. Might be interesting though to slice my old carbon bars in half length-wise to see if there is any apparent damage. Side note - on just those two rides with my old aluminum bars the harshness was quite evident. I wish there was a better selection of titanium bars on the market, which apparently are stronger than both aluminum and carbon, yet better at reducing vibrations than either of the alternatives. A lot of times the ticking is just a dirty contact point between the bars and stem. Cleaning and repasting the contact points usually works. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yosmithy Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 4 hours ago, Cafeend said: How about the next time you are in El Paso , you stop by Pepes Tamales ,, Bring me back some of those bad boys and Ill pay you ? They would never survive the trip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throet Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Chief said: A lot of times the ticking is just a dirty contact point between the bars and stem. Cleaning and repasting the contact points usually works. Hope this works, in which case I'll have an extra set of Renthal Carbon Bars. The scary thing is though, by the time you need your extra carbon bars, it might be too late. By the way, do the local shops sell carbon paste? I need to get some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4fun Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 52 minutes ago, throet said: Hope this works, in which case I'll have an extra set of Renthal Carbon Bars. The scary thing is though, by the time you need your extra carbon bars, it might be too late. By the way, do the local shops sell carbon paste? I need to get some. Yeah, I picked up a small tube at BSS on Parmer about a year ago for I think around $7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamsloan Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 56 minutes ago, throet said: By the way, do the local shops sell carbon paste? I need to get some. Yes, they do. It's cheap and a little goes a long way. FWIW, the hardtail I mentioned on the 2nd page of this thread is a 2007 Scott Scale carbon that I bought used back in 2008. I bought it stupid cheap because the previous owner dinged the frame on the downtube towards the bottom bracket. There's a cm-long deep gash. I've ridden the crap out of that thing since then. Lots of long BCGB rides, Lake Georgetown, a few Thumper Thursdays, Years of R&I's, and 2.3 Enchilada Buffets. That gash has never grown, changed, bubbled the clear coat around it...nothing. It wasn't until a couple of years ago (8yrs of riding by me) that I noticed a new crack on the seat stay that was starting to flake the clear coat (I blame Brushy Creek). I lightly sanded it and covered it with clear nail polish. 😛 I still ride it occasionally, but it's been retired from chunky gnar rides. Between that experience, my two CF handlebars, and Santa Cruz's insane carbon frame testing video I don't really question the integrity of carbon fiber unless it's been purchased off Ali-Express. Even then I'll let my son ride it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridenfool Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 Ever since carbon bars came out all of the disclaimers and cautions regarding adhering to necessary care and install procedures have resulted in squelching any desire for considering them. When compared to an aluminum bar the potential cons far outweigh any potential benefit from having them. Seth's experience supports what, to me, still seems like sound reasoning. They are mostly bling with slight benefit that is bundled with a much higher degree of risk exposure. Mountain biking has enough built-in exposure, I have no desire to compromise my ability to control my bike in sketchy situations. Carbon bars provide an increased potential point of failure which does not justify pushing the envelope. All you Chuck Yeager's can continue to be test pilots. I've seen more carbon bar failures reported than aluminum by a significant margin. YMMV 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seths Pool Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Ridenfool said: Ever since carbon bars came out all of the disclaimers and cautions regarding adhering to necessary care and install procedures have resulted in squelching any desire for considering them. When compared to an aluminum bar the potential cons far outweigh any potential benefit from having them. Seth's experience supports what, to me, still seems like sound reasoning. They are mostly bling with slight benefit that is bundled with a much higher degree of risk exposure. Mountain biking has enough built-in exposure, I have no desire to compromise my ability to control my bike in sketchy situations. Carbon bars provide an increased potential point of failure which does not justify pushing the envelope. All you Chuck Yeager's can continue to be test pilots. I've seen more carbon bar failures reported than aluminum by a significant margin. YMMV at least someone gets it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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