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Change old bike to 1X or get GPS?


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Shamefully enough I'm still riding a 26" 3X9 bike. I've stuck a dropper post, wider bars, shorter stem and a new (to me) rear rim on within the last couple of years. How much of an improvement is changing to 1X? I could either do this, or get something like a Garmin Edge 520 Plus as I get irritated having to constantly stop and dig my phone out when I frequently get lost. If you could only pick one, which would be the biggest improvement? I'm changing my mind as to which one to pick every 20 minutes.

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changing to 1X will not impact your riding experience. I do have 1X but mainly to reduce weight as part of an overall weight reduction program and to simplify the gears on the bike (not that I ever had a problem with the front gears). Neither of those really makes any daily impact.

If you do get a GPS I would see if I could get a good deal on a used one. 

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I love my GPS, that said, I haven't touched it in almost 2 years since learning the local trails. 

I also love my 26r with 1x11 that replaced my 2x9 setup. Mostly because the 2x9 was SUPER sacked and janky. I really do like the simplicity of up or down. 

I'd say if you like getting your self into situations were you get lost (I do) and you are already sufficient at picking the right fwd cog then go for the GPS. 

If your 3x9 is worn out jump for a 1x10 or 1x11. I bet with the recent 1x12 Shimano release the 1x10 and 11s will be marked down. 

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I recently sold someone a XT rear mech with clutch, SLX shifter, XT 11-36 cassette for a song. A used setup like that or something NOS on discount online should get you going for cheap. if you want the latest XTR 12 speed or whatever that will cost you. It sounds to me like having "the latest" is the last thing on your mind though.

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19 minutes ago, mack_turtle said:

I recently sold someone a XT rear mech with clutch, SLX shifter, XT 11-36 cassette for a song. A used setup like that or something NOS on discount online should get you going for cheap. if you want the latest XTR 12 speed or whatever that will cost you. It sounds to me like having "the latest" is the last thing on your mind though.

You’re right- I don’t need the latest and greatest of anything. I had been looking at xt 1X11. I suppose I’ve reached the point where I’m not sure whether to keep throwing new gear on what is now a pretty old bike (2010) or just start saving for an entirely new bike. 

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19 hours ago, circuitbreaker said:

the best part of the 1x experience is getting the clutch on the rear derailleur. which mostly eliminates chain slap.

i was pretty much just using 1x9 for trail rides anyway. (always staying in the middle ring) 

 

you can use a clutch derailleur without 1X

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My current bike is a 2X and I've rented several 1X bikes.  It's so much nicer not having that front derailleur.  However, I did snap the chain on one of those 1X bikes, so I'm wondering if the bikes with 12 rings on the back have weaker chains.  Looking forward to my next bike being 1X.

I do use a dedicated GPS (Garmin 520 Plus), but I don't really use it for navigation when I'm on mountain bike trails.  I mainly use it to to see my current distance and time and to record my ride so I can upload it to the InTeRwEbS afterwards.  You can do all this with a smartphone as well, and there are various mounts available to stick your phone on your handlebars or stem.  If you crash, though, you risk damaging your phone.  A dedicated GPS will allow you to ride much longer while still recording, without draining your phone battery.  If I need to see where I am and get my bearings (usually only on trails I'm not familiar with), I'll use my phone, which has a much larger screen and significantly better maps.  

 ..Al

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Good point- what features do you "need" on a GPS unit? Unless they have gotten much better in recent years, GPS for navigating trails is useless. Or is it?

 

I used my phone with Strava to record my rides, then a cheap Garmin watch, then bought a used Fitbit Surge a few months ago. Of course those are not helpful for navigation but I just want to know what time it is, how much longer I can be out before my wife gets mad, and upload it later so I can recall places I have ridden and if I am keeping up with the other local Freds.

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What makes sense for one person may be totally wrong for someone else. That said, here is what I recommend -

I would not sink money into your old bike. It is outdated and limiting at this point. Bike standards are changing so fast right now that what you buy today may not be usable on a new bike. You may find it hard to find parts for the old bike already. If you can get 'upgrades' on closeout or other wise low cost - it might make sense for you. But be careful how much you spend on that old a bike.

I don't find a GPS very useful for navigating trails. Even a 'high end' GPS does not have trail maps in it like they do for roads. So even if I load a GPX file into my GPS, I have to go past a turn before it tells me I am off course. And it CONSTANTLY tells me I am off course even when I am on course (GPS error? trail changes? Aliens?). What a GPS does best is record your ride so you can look at it after the ride, load it to Strava, etc.  Maybe the technology has improved to where a GPS can communicate with Trailforks or MTB Project and I don't know about it. But my experience is that GPS units don't help much with trail navigation.

Phone navigation of trails works much better than my GPS unit. But I keep my phone put away so it does not become a victim of a crash. To use the phone for trail navigation I have to stop, take off my Camelbak, dig out the phone, dry the sweat off my hands, etc etc etc before I can get navigation info. All of that and I still find it more useful than my Garmin 800 GPS. Your mileage may vary.

So what is my recommendation? The GPS unit WILL transfer to a new bike. If you want a new upgrade now - that is where I would spend my money. Just recognize the limitations. And I would be looking for a new / used bike in the near future. I would probably save my money to put into the new bike.

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The main appeal with gps is navigation. Similar to RedRider3141 I was hoping it would help with exploring new trails. At the moment I’m also stopping to take my phone out of my camelbak and it gets old fairly quickly. I like the idea of just poking around without being spoon-fed by strava/some other route map and getting lost, but I probably won’t be too popular if I keep coming home late after “getting lost again”. I also usually ride on my own and like the idea of having incident detection- although it looks like it might not work all that well for mtb.

Just keeping the money and saving for a new bike is probably the most sensible plan but its birthday related and I’m still childish enough to want something new to play with.

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15 hours ago, Bamwa said:

Unashamedly running 3x9 also. Just not worth the swapout to me yet. Pull the front der cable and you can have 1x9 all day. Better than 1x11 cuz less is more. That reminds me, time to bleed the bb7's!

Those BB7 bleed kits are as rare as hen's teeth. :classic_dry:

Edited by Ridenfool
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Going 1x9 may be an easy way for you to quickly solve this problem. I did this years ago on my 26er. I realized that I never touched the big ring and only occasionally used the granny. So I removed them and went 1x9. Basically I had ~95% of the range that I had before and was missing out on only the steepest climbing gear.

Then I realized that a little more climbing help was needed so I dropped to 30T on the front. That $35 investment in a RaceFace narrow-wide chainring gave me a little more climbing room, and I dropped some of the top end crunching for riding on pavement (which I only did in the EB...)

Eventually I changed out the cassette and derailleur for a 10-speed (which is really cheap now as it gets to end of life) and bought myself some additional range. Eventually tossed on an extended cassette, a 42T which I generally don't recommend. Sunrace is the only company making a 42T 10-speed cassette and it is crappy, I much prefer the Shimano, but those top out at 36T.

If you wanted to go all the way up to 11-speed you get some additional climbing power. But, that becomes a more expensive proposition. Even so, going all the way up to 11-speed is probably still cheaper than a Garmin. And depending on how you ride, the simplicity of 1X setup is something that you will benefit from every day, all the time, where a Garmin (for maps) will really only benefit you on those occasions where you get lost.

Now, let's talk about that Garmin. First, the 520 is not good for maps, I have one and it is mediocre at best. If you want a Garmin to help you when you get lost you are looking at the 800 series. I would not buy a x20 series, if you are going to spend the money, go with the newer x30 series, which are $300 for the 530 and $400 for the 830 (the one you would need). 

While I ride with a 520 on my stem all the time, I do it for stats. It is incredibly useful in helping me know how long I have been riding, how much climbing I have done, my average speed and all the other nerdy stuff that I want to know. But it is not essential. I miss it when I have forgotten to pack it, but it is also liberating at times to not be staring at it. If I was concerned about riding my way when I get lost, I'd use my smartphone, which is way better with a larger screen. Yeah, you have to stop and pull it out, but when you are lost, stopping is THE most important thing you can do. Trying to figure out your way while you are riding might just put you more off course.

Here's some simple math:

 

Screen Shot 2019-06-03 at 6.21.20 AM.jpg

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23 hours ago, Albert said:

I do use a dedicated GPS (Garmin 520 Plus), but I don't really use it for navigation when I'm on mountain bike trails.  I mainly use it to to see my current distance and time and to record my ride so I can upload it to the InTeRwEbS afterwards.  

 ..Al

I bought my first GPS Edge 305 because when I moved to my neighborhood I was constantly getting off the trail and that version showed on a map "where you have been" which allowed me to retrace my steps.  My next GPS didnt have that feature and it was frustrating as I found I relied on that feature on new trails (even used it on a desert ride in Tuscon).  However nowdays since 95% of my rides are where I know every inch of the trail its really just a simple way to track mileage, elevation, and since I ride at lunch how long Ive been away from the desk.   What I do like about my current GPS (520) is the crash feature alert since I ride alone 75% of the time.  It has gone off 3x- twice wouldnt have needed but once I was lucky I wasnt hurt to bad but could have been needed.

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1 minute ago, RedRider3141 said:

Never heard of that feature. Does it require payment to a regular service?

https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/edge520/EN-US/GUID-F109FB24-B55D-49D2-B388-D042E7FBA965.html

"When an incident is detected by your Edge® device with GPS enabled, the Garmin Connect Mobile app can send an automated text message and email with your name and GPS location to your emergency contacts."

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33 minutes ago, RedRider3141 said:

Never heard of that feature. Does it require payment to a regular service?

No it sends out a text using your phone and whomever you set up the contacts to be- up to 3.

When it first went off I was standing there think WTF is that noise, by the time I figured it out it had sent the alert.  Had to then call the Mrs and my Mother to stand down.   Its really a decent feature- three of the four times I went down I could see why it went off, One of them I thought was a little touchy. 

From my memory-

Crash, 5 seconds later it started alerting you,  you have 20 seconds to stop the alert.  You cant stop it from the GPS unit, you have to get your phone out and kill the alert using Garmin Connect.   So you can imagine depending on the situation, untangling yourself from your bike/ brush, getting to your phone needs to be fairly quick to not send  it out.

1. OTB- Couldnt figure out what the noise was- sent alert

2. Stopped Hard- off the side of bike down a slope-  I was upside down tangled in brush had to untangle- barely stopped alert.

3. 2 X, Stopped hard on an uphill- came down easy on side- easy enough to stop alert

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1x with a wide range cassette, clutch derailleur, and narrow/wide chainring is really, really nice. The added bonus (and really should be considered part of your 1x upgrade) is getting an under-bar mounted dropper switch. Right thumb shifts. Left thumb drops. You'll immediately find yourself using your dropper more often and more effectively. 

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1 hour ago, AustinBike said:

I guess I have a Garmin 510 because I do not have crash notification. Could have used it last weekend by Taco Man's house 😉

Big difference between 510 and 520.  The 520+ is even better and has decent map navigation, on par with the 705.  Having said all that, if I were to start over again, I'd go for the Wahoo Elemnt Bolt instead of the 520+.  The 520+ requires a lot of button clicking to get stuff done, and doesn't have the little joystick that the 705 had which made it really easy to do stuff like zoom in or out on the map screen.    The 520+ is downright annoying as to how many things I have to click to get stuff done (even powering off).

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To echo and add:

1) I think you'll find off-road navigation with a 520 to be unsatisfying. You'll end up with your phone in hand, able then to zoom, scroll, load up trails on Trailforks, etc. Just go get lost a few more times and you'll learn the trails.

2) Another safety feature of the 520 is the ability to allow someone to track your ride through Garmin Connect. I send my wife a beacon so she can see where I've been in case I stop moving and become unresponsive. You can also do this with Strava Beacon but you have to have the paid subscription.

3) My phone is really old and started to freak out and reboot once in a while, seemingly always during a ride, screwing up my ride tracking when I used it for Strava. I have a 520 and I do like decoupling my ride recording and phone.

4) If you do any road routes at all, don't underestimate the 520 for it's routing feature. You can download a very detailed local base map then load routes that you've created in something like RideWithGPS and it will accurately do turn by turn routing for you. I use it when trying to find my way through new neighborhoods on longer rides. I created this route this weekend and my 520 pointed me along the way like a champ: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/30144562

9c27ce74c9e4d289f3e50da2e90ff269.jpg

5) Get a little top tube bag to hold your phone in a more convenient place. This is honestly the best solution to the problems you've stated but also the least fun. [emoji846] https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/a22666766/top-tube-bags-bento-boxes-reviewed/

6) 1x11 is sweet AF.

 

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