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I wouldn't say he struck a nerve. I just think that stating that "full suspension leads to poor bike handling skills especially right off the bat" needed to be further dissected and better understood. Through all of the subsequent comments, I think has come greater clarity. What I'm hearing is that some people who learned on HT or who ride both HT and FS, tend to get lazy riding their FS, letting their bike take over what they should be paying more attention to. That is a fair perspective I believe. For others who ride both, that has not necessarily been the case. I think it's important as well for the OP, who is new to the sport, to understand that this forum and mojo before it are LOADED with opinions. He might be getting opinions from somebody who has been riding 20+ years and still can't do a proper bunny hop or manual, or he might be getting opinions from somebody who is Austin's equivalent of Jeff Kendall-Weed. We also don't know whether the OP is trying to emulate Nino Schurter or Bernhard Kerr or something in between, which might help in making bike recommendations. As Chief points out above, there are other factors that are perhaps more important when choosing a bike than whether it is FS or HT. When you can have both, that is even better.

Thanks for saying it much more concisely than I was able to!

It rained for a few minutes while we were out there - not enough to create any mud but enough to create some slick spots. We didn't even ride Deception or Rim as a result of that. Snail and Picnic were in perfect condition. The east side of Peddlers was perfect but the west side had a few slick spots. Seems like the sun has been out ever since, and as long as it doesn't rain anymore it should be fine tomorrow. However, the forecast is for more rain later today and tomorrow.

But what skills specifically are you using on your hard tail when you aren't "motoring" through something or when you're cranking hard to get up a climb? More specifically, what "poor bike handling skills" are developed if you learn those same skills on a FS? That is the point I was challenging. As Cafeend mentioned, maybe you pay more attention to line choice. I can accept that, but I don't agree that you won't learn proper line choice by progressing your skills on an FS. You should choose different lines based on the bike you're on and based on your own skill level, but what's wrong with that? I'm always seeking out more challenging lines on my rides to help build more skills. When I look across the spectrum of what are considered essential skills - balance, body position, trackstanding, cornering, braking, looking ahead / line choice, descending, climbing, ratcheting, pumping, punching, manualing, bunny hopping, rear wheel lift and pivot, etc, - I'm just not getting where any of these would be developed poorly because you're learning on an FS vs HT. I believe that probably 80% of the amateurs who believe they are skilled mountain bikers probably aren't, and instead use various methods of compensating for poor skills, whether they learned on an HT or a FS. I'm only 4 years into progressing my skills, and I'm doing it almost exclusively on an FS. When I do decide to ride my HT, I use those same skills and am amazed by the stuff I can do in tech terrain on an XC HT with steep head angle. I've got a long way to go in my progression, but I'm absolutely confident that I'm not developing bad habits solely because I choose to progress on an FS.

Sure - just text me when you're heading over.

No doubt about the bad habits picked up riding clipless. Can't even count the number of people who I've come across that believe a bunny hop entails yanking up on your pedals. What I'm struggling to understand is what bad habits are specifically attributed to riding full suspension, especially around bike handling.

Text me when you're heading out. I'm only on my second cup of coffee.

Should be fine. I'm showing no rain last night. I'm probably heading out around 10 if you want to join.

Could you elaborate on this? I've often heard people say that you should learn to manual and bunny hop on a hardtail because it is easier to learn on, which has been my experience as well. I often lock out my rear sus when practicing these skills. However, I've never heard anybody claim that riding an FS leads to "poor bike handling skills". Are you referring to cornering? Braking? Body position and balance? My belief is that each individual rider chooses whether they want to learn proper skills or not, regardless of whether their bike is FS or HT.

Day game today on TBS to kick off the series with Cleveland. Going for the repeat!

I'd be really interested to know the demographic of folks buying e-bikes. Seems like way too much money to be spending on something for our local trails here. While I'd love to take one for a test spin at City Park just to see how much easier it makes those climbs, I'd never consider buying one. Brushy is the last place I expected to see them appear given that they would really be more of a disadvantage than advantage there I think. For me they would definitely take the fun out of the sport, but GBMN and Sam Pilgrim are making them seem cool to the masses. I saw that Intense just introduced their first e-bike, which I had never expected them to do.

Glad to hear you're enjoying yourself so much. We still need to meet up and ride by the way - maybe this weekend? Regarding your options, I would suggest option #3 and keep your Rockhopper as a backup bike, possibly doing some upgrades on it down the road. Having a backup bike is really handy, especially for those of us who rely mostly on the bike shops for maintenance. Just take your time figuring out what you want in a full-suspension bike, and when you see something close on clearance, go for it. Nice bikes can be had for 30% or more off retail if you shop carefully, even steeper discounts if you're willing to buy a demo bike.

Ha I had a yellow Schwinn Continental that my parents got me in the '70s for like $80. It's actually probably still in their basement.

Whatever rain blew thru last night appears to have missed Brushy, at least from Mulligan west. We rode everything on that end but didn't go over to Peddlers; so I can't vouch for that.

Nice ride out there this morning with @Chief and @WhoAmI. The humidity is still wicked but the trails were in great shape.

Interesting. A group of us rode Brushy this morning and it didn't appear to have gotten any rain. Rode Rim, Picnic, Mulligan, and Deception. All were in great shape and even the wet spots have finally dried out. It rained at my house last night for a couple of minutes according to my wife, and we live a mile from the west end of Brushy.

Did it rain last night? As of yesterday things had been drying out pretty well around town.

Cool - that's where we usually meet anyway.

Sounds like a plan

@Chief @Cafeend if either of you guys are in tomorrow I can still meet you at 183A at 7:30. We can then work our way over to Mulligan for 8.

I'm in. We can meet in front of Mulligan at 8.

We were both sucking wind today. Once it cools off we need to spend some time sessioning out there. There is much I can learn from you.

That's a really good point!

We rode E-W and were finished by noon. I'm going to ride it again late afternoon tomorrow and I'm sure it will be better. We avoided Mulligan even though it's usually just that one spot that gets sloppy.

Having grown up watching defenders like Ray Nitschke, Dick Butkus, Jack Tatum, and Deacon Jones, it's difficult for me to accept some of the changes taking place in the league these days. Don't get me wrong - I get the reality of CTE and other debilitating injuries. Still, it's just hard to see so many "meek" tackles getting flagged as unnecessary roughness. It is a violent sport, and those participating know that. I still find it exciting and love that my Rams are off to a 4-0 start, but I do wonder what's becoming of the game and whether it will even still exist 15 years from now.