RedRider3141 Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 I got the bug to try singlespeed, handy that I already own a bike that can do either and I have (maybe) everything for the conversion. I think I'm missing a spacer for the rear "cassette". Can anyone confirm the stack height? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRider3141 Posted November 18, 2023 Author Share Posted November 18, 2023 (edited) Stole a spacer from my cassette and got it working! Edited November 18, 2023 by RedRider3141 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRider3141 Posted November 19, 2023 Author Share Posted November 19, 2023 Problem #2, my oval is no bueno with my setup, had to switch to the original Shimano chain ring. I guess that's one drawback to sliding dropouts, unless I add a tensioner I'm stuck with round chain rings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 (edited) long-time singlespeeder here to help! put as many spacers on your hub as you need to take out the slack when you crank down that lock ring. I've never measured, but I measure the chainline on the chainring and space the rear cog so it's within 2mm of the front. (1/2 of your seat tube diameter + distance from side of seat tube = your chainline. 1/2 of your axle OLD – chainline = distance your cog teeth should be from the end of the axle. adjust the orientation of the spacers accordingly.) I've used oval and round rings with a singlespeed setup using some sort of sliding dropouts, track ends, and EBBs. all of those work fine because and oval ring that's made right does not experience any more chain tension change than a decent round ring to drop a chain. with a springy chain tensioner, though, that might work differently—I have not tried it with an external tensioner. I had this Rotor crankset and oval ring on my bike recently, and the Rotor ovality is very aggressive. no problems. if your oval ring changes tension enough to drop the chain, I'd consider replacing it with one that's not defective. I don't bother with oval rings any more. I just don't feel the difference. Edited November 19, 2023 by mack_turtle 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRider3141 Posted November 19, 2023 Author Share Posted November 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, mack_turtle said: if your oval ring changes tension enough to drop the chain, I'd consider replacing it with one that's not defective. Maybe I should start with, how much tension should I have? 😂 I have an Absolute Black chainring, I assumed they are of decent quality. So maybe I just had it too tight, if definitely didn't seem like it was going to drop when it went loose but when it went tight, it was too tight. On my motor cycle it was an up/down measurement mid-chain on the low side. Mostly to allow the suspension to move without snapping the chain at full compression when it went tight. Sounds like I need to Google somemore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 (edited) tension: tight enough that it does not drop the chain is all that really matters. I like to get it just tight enough that I can't feel the chain bouncing around annoyingly. anything tighter than that will cause additional wear on your whole system that doesn't occur with a derailer. I've always found AB rings to have pretty consistent tension all the way around the ring. The owner posted a video some time back claiming that there's no reason you can't use singlespeed with their oval rings. It's really annoying that he used a bike with a bolt-on tensioner to demonstrate, though. if you have an oval ring that has significant tight/loose spots, there's something wrong with the way it was made IMO. no chainring is perfectly round, even so-called round ones. oval chainrings should be ... is cocentric the right word?. they all have tight spots. find the tight spot and make the chain the tightest at that point, but not excessively tight. Edited November 19, 2023 by mack_turtle 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 One of the things you'll find about a singlespeed is that if you have sliding dropouts, the dropouts will move over time and you will need to crank them back occasionally. I keep an eye on my chain tension and when it can move up or down more than ~1/2" I tighten it up a little more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, AustinBike said: One of the things you'll find about a singlespeed is that if you have sliding dropouts, the dropouts will move over time and you will need to crank them back occasionally. I keep an eye on my chain tension and when it can move up or down more than ~1/2" I tighten it up a little more. I need to move the EBB on my gravel bike or the sliders on my mtb, and I always wonder if it's the chain wearing out, or the adjustment slipping. Those Paragon sliders are beefy! Edited November 19, 2023 by mack_turtle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRider3141 Posted November 19, 2023 Author Share Posted November 19, 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, AustinBike said: the dropouts will move over time and you will need to crank them back occasionally I mean, chains do wear, my motorcycle needed regular adjustments of the tensioners, they were clogged so they couldn't move so it only could have been chain wear/"stretch". I'll watch out for it either way, because without a derailleur taking up the slack, it will need to be adjusted. Edited November 19, 2023 by RedRider3141 Despite auto correct, I still can't spell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRider3141 Posted November 19, 2023 Author Share Posted November 19, 2023 I put the oval back in and readjusted. At first I was shooting for ~1/4" of deflection mid-chain but after torquing everything up and taking a quick spin around the block it ended up a little looser. Either way, it sounds and feels much happier with more slack. I tried derailing the chain while pedaling and it wouldn't come off the front. So it seems good... 🤷♂️ I we got so little rain this morning, hopefully I can go try it on a trail before more rain comes tomorrow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonioGG Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 With the oval chainrings it's key to make sure they're clocked properly. As to the spacers, I love the Endless Bike Fibonacci spacer set because it allowed me to get the chainline perfect. It's super smooth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 When I tighten up the chain and the sliders, I find that it will make a little noise for the first 1-2 rides. But after that it falls into the right spot where it is quiet for a few months. Then I notice the slack in the chain, oddly it seems to make the pedaling more difficult for some reason. Then it's flip the bike over, grab the Allen heads, lather, rinse, repeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRider3141 Posted November 21, 2023 Author Share Posted November 21, 2023 (edited) Well that was fun. I think. It definitely forces you to ride differently. I became much more aware of my speed. Like driving an underpowered sports car, maintaing my momentum was key. On climbs I was surprised that I was able to climb everything I tried, albeit, standing on many and a break here and there to let my heart rate drop. Never had an issue getting going again either. I don't know that I won't go back eventually but I'll definitely try a few other areas before I do. I did end up dropping a chain from the rear cog at ~7miles in, tension was noticeably looser as I was able to easy roll the chain back on. Like @AustinBikeI said, flip the bike over and less than 5-min later I'm retensioned and good to go. That reminds me, how do I know which spare master link to carry? I usually just stay in brand and match the number of gears... And do I need to bring a short section of chain too? Jeesh, this singlespeed stuff is complicated... 😂 According to Salsa the chain is a "KMC Z1eHZX EPT Anti-Rust (1/2" x 3/32")" Edited November 21, 2023 by RedRider3141 Chain spec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 (edited) Stand and mash! What front/rear combo, and tire size, are you riding? It's likely that the combo that works best in the long run is lower than you expect. Most mortals @ 32/20 with 29" tires. The ratio might be slightly different if you're riding 27.5" tires. Because math—gear inches. Some of the ridiculously strong riders I know use a lower gear than that. If the bike is dropping chains, I'd consider getting a different ring, or maybe the cog. Beefy cogs help a lot when flimsy ones might allow enough flex to drop the chain under torque. Hardtails flex under load, so if the loose spot on your chain becomes looser, it could drop it. Quick link: there must be some that fit this chain perfectly. You might need to measure the width of an inner link to see how many "speeds" is the appropriate one. Most likely, 8-speed links will do it, if not a "narrow" master link. Edited November 21, 2023 by mack_turtle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRider3141 Posted November 21, 2023 Author Share Posted November 21, 2023 25 minutes ago, mack_turtle said: What front/rear combo, and tire size, are you riding? 32 Oval and a 18 rear cog with a 27.5" x 2.6" in the rear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 (edited) 50 gear inches. That should be fine if you're on the strong side, but I shoot for something a little lower. 32/19? One tooth makes more of a difference than you might expect. What frame is that? What's the longest and shortest possible chainstay adjustment on it? Salsa Timberjack has a 420-437 range. I like to balance my desire for a rear-length bias with the gear combo. 34/21 and 32/19 would be the shortest chainstay settings possible, close to "slammed," but that's really short. 32/20 would push the acle rearward about 10mm, which I find is very noticeable. Edited November 21, 2023 by mack_turtle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRider3141 Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 Question on Rear hubs/drivers: All of my bikes have HG drivers which is easy and works well with my cassettes and single speed. I've been poking around at 29" wheel sets on CL/FB and I found a great set with XD driver. I did a little research but it seems like trying to make an XD driver into a Single speed seems expensive vs HG. Am I missing something or is that just the way it is? Problem Solvers looked the cheapest at $79 which isn't terrible and it looks very customizable on chainline and sprocket size. But everything else is in the $99 to $150 range. https://problemsolversbike.com/products/zinger-single-speed-conversion-kit-for-sram-xd https://wheelsmfg.com/xd-hub-single-speed-conversion-kit-solo-xd.html https://reverse-components-usa.com/products/reverse-xd-single-speed-kit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Yes, you are correct. HG is basically a whole bunch of spacers. XD is a more complicated solution. But, cheaper than a new wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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