mack_turtle

Back to the important question: what is Bill Murray riding these days?

I don't travel afar very much, and certainly not in winter. F*** snow and freezing temps! I grew up in that. You don't see fat bikes around here much, but I would not be surprised to see them as very popular in some Hoth-like region. If I was tied up and dragged to Wisconsin or something, a fat bike would be among my first purchases. But yes, it's likely that e-mtbs will find their niche among people who can't pedal a normal bike, people who use them in place of a shuttle for downhills, and the occasional tech bro with money burning a hole in his wallet.

I venture to guess that increased access to that beach had a negative affect on the beach? Would you say that, before easy access by roads, only people who cared enough about really savoring the beauty there made the effort to find their way there, and respected the place more for it? I take that as a metaphor for the affect that broad acceptance and attainability of e-mtbs might have on trails. Am I gate-keeping? I sure am, without a hint of shame.

Yes. I am interested to see what it will take to put a price tag on such a product to make it attainable to that part of the market. It's possible, but it will take time. Or maybe it never will come. Is it worth it? I think that's one more nudge to the civilization-ending trajectory we all love so blindly. I would rather that day never come for the same reason Edward Abbey wanted to tear up the roads that take tourists to the Grand Canyon (go read Desert Solitaire before you judge that perspective). But I don't have a significant say in it.

What's a good analogous product that we already know? tandem bikes, maybe event tandem mountain bikes, come to mind. mountain unicycles? 36" wheeled bikes? mountain handcycles? there's a market for those things, but which of them was a popular target that several manufacturers tried to hit at the same time, leaving only a few to continue? examples of things that were small at first that went mainstream: fat bikes... ?

OK, mainstream consumer of mountain bikes. people who are willing to buy a "real" bike, not department store POS. that does not exclude people who have a relatively humble budget. without a scientific understanding of this market, I'd say the person who is willing to spend over $500 on a bicycle fits in there. you can tell by the online buyer's guides that the market for a bike around $1,000 has some pull.

I think I made it clear. e-mtbs = mountain bikes that can be ridden reliably on actual trails, not trashy BSOs (bicycle-shaped objects).

There's a clash of philosophical worldviews playing out here that is bigger than bikes. Some of us see things in the context of ideal forms (thanks, Plato). To me, a mountain bike is an expression of a form, just like a cat, or a a game of baseball. You can vary the manifestation of that form to some degree, but when you tweak that object beyond it's horizon, it ceases to represent that form. It's now something else. If a cat starts laying eggs or grows wings, it's no longer a cat. If people on a baseball field start tackling one another and kicking the ball around instead of hitting it with a bat, they're not playing baseball anymore. In that thread, when you put a motor on a mountain bike, it's "no longer a mountain bike." I am not saying that this perspective is superior to anyone else's. I have a pretty strong sense that categories are important, that compartmentalizing my perception of reality is what keeps me sane. It points to an explanation of why some people think e-mtbs are sacrilege and others shrug and say "so what?"

You have a point. I still wonder what it would take for e-mtbs to become mainstream in this regard. You can make a relaible FS bike with a price tag "for the masses" but what will it take for the price of those batteries to come down? I don't know anything about that market. How much artificial markup is on that product and how much is just that it's expensive to produce? Is there a more commerically viable alternative on the horizon that will make expensive, environmentally destructive li-ions obsolete?

This is what I was getting at. I simply don't buy the notion that the industry is pulling out all the stops to slap motors on recreational bicycles so that old folks can keep up with whipper-snappers. that's a great application for the technology and I have no problem with using these bikes in places where chair lifts and truck shuttles are not possible. but that's a very tiny niche market for the effort that is being poured into it. the truth is that brap bros (sorry, I don't know what else to call them) are going to buy things like this and use them inappropriately. I'd love to see people who have a legitimate "need" for them on local terrain, but I will be surprised if they not banned from public trails in the near future after a battery catches on fire and burns down half of WC or a few helicopter rescues are required for people fly off a cliff while smashing 45 pound bikes through BCGB for the first time. yes! If you want a laugh, I have a stack of Dirt Rag magazines that go back to the '80s. the letter submissions are hilarious in retrospect.

$1,200 USD on the link provided.

Bikesonline has it for $1200 w/ free shipping. Not sure about the quality of the total package, but that seems like a helluva deal.

I thought I had seen that one, but I had it confused with another video about a guy with a unsurmountable medical lung issue. That made sense too. E-mtbs for people who climb ACTUAL mountains to get to downhill runs make a lot of sense too. There are several reasons why e-mtbs make sense. The way they are trying to saturate the market with them, however, does not make sense.

If the only thing stopping you from going up a hill is regular ol' fatigue, you don't need a motor. You need to HTFU. (Actual mountains notwithstanding. That's why people use lifts, shuttle cars, or motors.

If that's "who e-bikes are for," why do companies like Santa Cruz expect to stick motors on half their bikes in the next few years? Do we expect half of all riders to have actual medical conditions that necessitate motorized assistance? Do half of all riders need to climb thousands of feet at a time to access trails? If I was a bow hunter and learned that the market was heavily pushing laser-enhanced, atomic-powered rail guns instead of something that more closely resembles normal archery equipment, I'd feel the same way. Likewise, if you walked into a running store and found that half of the shoes on the shelf were equipped with Acme rocket skates, something would seem off. My take: the only thing that would warrant that kind of saturation of e-mtbs in the market is people becoming wussies.