ATXZJ Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 The new Deore press release came out today and looks to finally offer a good option over the crap sram sx & nx on OEM builds. 10spd for the win for people looking for a reliable gear ratio range on a budget. https://www.pinkbike.com/news/first-look-shimanos-new-deore-12-speed-group-plus-other-2021-updates.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 Price looks right. I'd buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBaron Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 I've never run it myself, but I have installed SX & NX on bikes and I wasn't really impressed. The tolerances were very poor and the shifting was very finicky. I can't say that I was impressed. It seemed to me like it was just a CHEAP way to get 12 spd and my thoughts were that money would have been better spent on better 11 spd (or 10) stuff. Consider me intrigued with this Shimano release. Cheers, CJB 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 Oh good, one more direct mount chainring interface! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamsloan Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 Direct mount mountain bike calipers are coming. Because we need that. The direct mount chainring interface is the same as the XTR, XT, and SLX 12 speed group if I read correctly. So, it's not "one more" unless you weren't aware of Shimano’s existing direct mount standard. The crazy thing to me is that they are making 2x12 possible. The adventure biking/touring set is gonna love that! Might finally pull them from their 3x9 drivetrains...except that Shimano also updated Alivio today as well! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBaron Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Teamsloan said: The crazy thing to me is that they are making 2x12 possible. The adventure biking/touring set is gonna love that! Might finally pull them from their 3x9 drivetrains...except that Shimano also updated Alivio today as well! I missed putting that tid-bit together. Yunno, I was a little late to the 1x party because I really enjoyed the range of the 2x (and even 3 prior). Combine that with the fact that I'm slowly sourcing a build for a bike packing rig and this just got pretty interesting. I wonder if I could run 2 NW chainrings on a double setup (no front D) and then just manually chain it over when needed?? -CJB Edited May 8, 2020 by CBaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamsloan Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 Other than chainline issues at the extremes of the cassette causing a sort of cross-chain issue, I don't see why that couldn't work as long as you were running a long cage rear D. Without knowing, I'd be curious about how much redundancy there would be in the ratios. It might not be so much of a range advantage, but finding an optimal cadence with a heavy load sort of advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBaron Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 5 minutes ago, Teamsloan said: Other than chainline issues at the extremes of the cassette causing a sort of cross-chain issue, I don't see why that couldn't work as long as you were running a long cage rear D. Without knowing, I'd be curious about how much redundancy there would be in the ratios. It might not be so much of a range advantage, but finding an optimal cadence with a heavy load sort of advantage. Yeah, I'd have to think through it a little more clearly. In my mind, I might have it set up like a normal 1x...but then have that SUPER-granny for bike packing when loaded-up for ongoing CO climbs. Hmmmm...same might be able to be done for say....a Leadville 100 bike? I've never done L100 but, I personally, would like to have a broader range without creating bigger steps between gears. Thus you could have an entire 'bail-out' gear range for going up. It doesn't have have to be dramatic either...a 28/32 up front may be enough? Just rambling.... -CJB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bamwa Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 11 hours ago, Teamsloan said: The adventure biking/touring set is gonna love that! Might finally pull them from their 3x9 drivetrains... I'm sticking with my 3x9 till it explodes, but I'm not that into adventure either. /s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 4 hours ago, Teamsloan said: Other than chainline issues at the extremes of the cassette causing a sort of cross-chain issue, I don't see why that couldn't work as long as you were running a long cage rear D. Without knowing, I'd be curious about how much redundancy there would be in the ratios. It might not be so much of a range advantage, but finding an optimal cadence with a heavy load sort of advantage. I would likewise encourage people to do the math. I went from 3X to 2X when I realized I had ~80% overlap and never used 10% of the unique configs (think 11T on the cassette). Then, going from 2X to 1X made even more sense, just swap cassettes and rings to maximize your coverage. I don't even use the 50T on my cassette, been thinking about a slightly larger front ring because when I drop to the 50T I just spin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamsloan Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 I love my 50T. If I can't pedal the bike in the 50T, then it means I'm about to fall backwards or I'm just worn out (the more likely event). I've been pretty pleased with how steep I can go on the Ripmo with the Eagle ring. I'm not nearly as fit as you are though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXZJ Posted May 12, 2020 Author Share Posted May 12, 2020 The data will set you free http://gears.mtbcrosscountry.com/#26I1I1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBaron Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 I care as much about the steps between my cogs, as I do about the overall range. I'm running 1x11 spd and find it very adequate, but I'd LOVE to move up to 12 spd if they'd add a cog 'in middle' for me, instead of giving me 'more range'. I understand that 2x & 3x have a ton of overlap. But I wasn't running them for the simplest number of gears, but rather the quality cog/shifting steps between each gear change.....while in each given front gear range. Later, CJB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamsloan Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 Maybe you should try out the Ingrid 12spd 10t-48t cassette!https://ingrid.bike/product/cassette-12s-48t10/Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBaron Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 Holy crap that thing is beautiful!....and expensive! I like that it tops out at 48t but I need to compare it to my 11 spd gearing. I do wish that it started at 9t. Thanks for the link. -CJB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamsloan Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 It’s from that blinged out Revel Rascal build that’s all over the bike journalism sites.…and a 9t cog? Only E-thirteen makes that. Better off with a bigger chain ring. Fun discussion on reddit about this. My favorite comment, “9 teeth is a polygon not a circle. Even 11 sucks really.”Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 Yeah, people don't understand that gear ratios are reliant on cogs at both ends. People should stop focusing on tooth count and focus instead on ratios. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 in my BMX days, the "perfect" gear combo for older bikes at 44/16 on 20" wheels. better hub designs allowed us to drop the 16t freewheel in favor of smaller freewheels on metric-thread hubs down to 13t to be used with a 36t front. then "cassette" hubs with machined one-piece drivers allowed 33/12, 30/11, 28/10, 25/9, and even 22/8. Eight teeth! what BMX riders quickly learned was that a driver that forces all of your pedaling into the hub using four teeth at a time feels like crap and wears everything out quickly. I think BMX bikes (although not race bikes, that's a different story) settled on 9t drivers and a few with 10t. that's not directly applicable to mountain bikes, but the tiny cog craze has a limit. people are going to shell out for these huge range cassettes and realize how quickly a 9t or 10t cog wears out and regret it. do they well the smaller cogs separately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 I used to run a 1x9 and had plenty of range for Austin. Initially there was a 32 in the back and then I got all crazy with a 36T. Now I have a 1x12 and the 50T is too big, thinking about going bigger on the front to make that big one in the back usable. If you look at the typical rider, they probably spend 80-90% of their time in 3-4 different tightly grouped ratios. I guy from SA that some of us ride with occasionally uses a 1x8 and complains that he has more gears than he needs. If you are trying to get to a 9T on the front I would contend that you are riding too many streets and not enough trail 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 I think dowhillers are looking for more gear. I don't know enough about the discipline, but I imagine there's a limit to how large a ring you want to put on the front, and you need a lot of speed to hit big jumps. most of us around here don't have any real use for that high range. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXZJ Posted May 13, 2020 Author Share Posted May 13, 2020 Yes, they are running out of gear. My buddy has a 29er with 11-50 cassette & 32t and is spinning out in the 11t but doesn't want a bigger ring up front. This is not an issue for us here in flatlandia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 bicycles need gearboxes. it's time. stop f-ing around with cassettes and derailers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 40 minutes ago, mack_turtle said: I think dowhillers are looking for more gear. I don't know enough about the discipline, but I imagine there's a limit to how large a ring you want to put on the front, and you need a lot of speed to hit big jumps. most of us around here don't have any real use for that high range. I'm not sure if they need more gears for speed... Maybe just less brakes! 😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidingAgain Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 2 hours ago, ATXZJ said: Yes, they are running out of gear. My buddy has a 29er with 11-50 cassette & 32t and is spinning out in the 11t but doesn't want a bigger ring up front. This is not an issue for us here in flatlandia Since I've gone 1x... First with a 32t and now with a 30t, I've been easily spinning out on flat, easy trail. And on SATN trails, except for the short sections of uphill, I find myself only using maybe three high gears most of the time. It's been making me think about going back to a 2x... But then do I really want the possibility of more speed, especially given the crowds on the trails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBaron Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 13 hours ago, Teamsloan said: It’s from that blinged out Revel Rascal build that’s all over the bike journalism sites. …and a 9t cog? Only E-thirteen makes that. Better off with a bigger chain ring. Fun discussion on reddit about this. My favorite comment, “9 teeth is a polygon not a circle. Even 11 sucks really.” Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Yes, I think I should prolly clarify my search for the 'right ratios' in that what I currently have works very fine for around here. But for me, all of this convo got started around bikepacking talk (and in my mind my desire to do Leadville 100 someday). Thus I'd like to find a possible option that can give me what I'm looking for in those (different) scenarios....range and quality steps in between. Around here locally, if I can get by in the EB with my gearing then its working for me. Later, CJB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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