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Since The Subject of an Austin MTB Print Magazine Has Come up...

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At one point, I was hoping it was just really shitty performance art. Nope, just really shitty trolling.

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18 hours ago, notyal said:

 

You are delusional. You post these quotes and articles that obviously support the position that you are trying to take then claim it's a "position I never took or implied".

 

I've been called a lot of things... But never delusional.

I guess when I'm speaking to someone who seems unable or unwilling to be honest... Anything's possible.

Regarding absolutely dishonest speaking...

You said "...You post these quotes and articles that obviously support the position that you are trying to take then claim it's a "position I never took or implied"."

Well...

No...

This is what I said...

"...if you’re able to read and properly comprehend, you’d know you did exactly that... You built a straw man and then attacked it.

It’s exactly what you did. 

Nowhere did I say or suggest that having printed materials in SXSW justified starting a local MTB magazine, which were your exact words.

That was a straw man... 

You tried to refute a position I never took or implied. 

Again...

First... Nowhere did I say or suggest that having printed materials in SXSW justified starting a local MTB magazine, which were your exact words.

What I was pointing out is that printed material is still a viable marketing tool (which is what printed material is used for at SXSW)... As seen even within a digital-focused/specific marketing environment.

And the fact that printed material is used successfully in abundance in SXSW is proof of this.

Proof of the viability of printed marketing material, even within a digital-focused/specific marketing environment.

But it seems you made the rather large jump from the above to it being me saying that it "...justified starting a local MTB magazine...".

Which is really just an asinine jump on your part... And one that comes across as you trying to build a straw man to attack.

SXSW has absolutely nothing to do with mountain biking, or even outdoor trail use... At least in the direct way a MTB magazine would. Why on earth would you think that I would conclude that it "...justified starting a local MTB magazine..."?

Justification of a "...local MTB magazine..." requires far more that proving the viability of printed marketing material at an event like SXSW.

Screen Shot 2020-01-17 at 7.48.54 PM.png

Edited by RidingAgain

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5 hours ago, notyal said:

You are delusional. You post these quotes and articles that obviously support the position that you are trying to take then claim it's a "position I never took or implied". 

Further...

This is what you said in a comment that followed...

"...You posted a stat that directly contradicts the financial potential of a printed magazine. I called you on it, then you reply with "there's paper materials at SXSW" and anecdotes about yachts and copy/paste stories about Amazon."

Do you see how you brought up the matter of "...financial potential of a printed magazine..."?

Yet...

Again...

I never said nor suggested anything in the comment related to the "...stat..." I posted regarding any "...financial potential of a printed magazine."

Go take another look... Nothing there about "...financial potential of a printed magazine."


This is the quote in question...

"...The estimated aggregate revenue of U.S. based periodical publishers has fallen sharply in the past decade from 46 billion U.S. dollars in 2007 to around 28 billion in 2017. The advent of the internet has changed the print publishing industry drastically. Consumers have become accustomed to the advantages offered by internet-based alternatives, making it increasingly difficult for print newspapers and magazines to keep their audiences. Although competition is becoming more and more fierce, the total number of magazine readers in the U.S. has actually seen a slight increase since 2012. The number of magazines in the U.S. has also stayed fairly constant over the years, varying from around 7,383 to 7,218 since 2008."

And the context related to it is one of market opportunity... Which is certainly positively addressed at the end of the above quote... Because although digital has made things increasingly difficult... "...the total number of magazine readers in the U.S. has actually seen a slight increase since 2012. The number of magazines in the U.S. has also stayed fairly constant over the years, varying from around 7,383 to 7,218 since 2008."

If there has been a "...slight increase...", then there must be opportunity.

The context of my response to AustinBike was regarding opportunity for a published MTB magazine.

Therefore the context related to the above quote is... Opportunity for a published MTB magazine.

This was my implied position... That, among other things, industry stats show that there is opportunity for success with a published magazine.

And not the "...financial potential of a magazine."

That's where you brought in your straw man, notyal.

 

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6 hours ago, notyal said:

And the Bezos thing, I never said anything about the reasons he bought it either (financial or otherwise). I don't really care about that. I was just calling out YOU and your bullshit.  I said that it in no way parallels your upstart magazine idea. So why do you post this kind of crap if its not supporting your own position (which it clearly attempts to do)?

And onto "...the Bezos thing...".

Here we go...

This is your speaking...

"...You posted a stat that directly contradicts the financial potential of a printed magazine. I called you on it, then you reply with "there's paper materials at SXSW" and anecdotes about yachts and copy/paste stories about Amazon. Starting a grassroots, regional, special interest magazine has absolutely zero parallels with Bezos buying a major newspaper. So, who is really the straw man here?"

See how you lead in there...

With... "...You posted a stat that directly contradicts the financial potential of a printed magazine. I called you on it, then you reply with "there's paper materials at SXSW" and anecdotes about yachts and copy/paste stories about Amazon."

Neat trick... Lead in with a thought... Then speak in a general way about things. The hope being that the lead thought will color how the reader reads the rest of the speaking.

See...

I didn't post "...a stat that directly contradicts the financial potential of a printed magazine."

I posted a quote that addressed multiple stats... Including those addressing the problems that the magazine industry faced... And... This... "Although competition is becoming more and more fierce, the total number of magazine readers in the U.S. has actually seen a slight increase since 2012. The number of magazines in the U.S. has also stayed fairly constant over the years, varying from around 7,383 to 7,218 since 2008."... Which is a stat that suggests the staying power of publish material.

But I fully understand your need to neglect being honest regarding the complete quote I presented.


Now as is plainly obvious in your speaking quoted above...

It is very clear that your tilt was toward "...the financial potential of a printed magazine."

Regarding Bezos...

He's not a foolish man who wastes money. Therefore... His buying of The Washington Post would not have been about becoming involved in a unprofitable business. Which was the point I was making. The richest man in the world sees value in printed published material.

And seeing value in printed publish material is most certainly an intrinsic aspect of an "...upstart magazine idea...".

Value is not the sole domain of multi million dollar companies.

If people see value in a local MTB magazine... Then the opportunity to successfully publish a local MTB magazine is certainly there. 

Edited by RidingAgain

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6 hours ago, notyal said:

I know. It's because you never, ever admit that you are wrong or your dumb ideas could fail, so you deflect by posting this kind of stuff so that you appear to some idea that you know what you're talking about.

Actually...

Anything can fail... Dumb idea or smart idea.

The Pet Rock succeeded... And the Challenger blew up just after lift off.

I've been around long enough to know that no idea is a guaranteed hit.

So again we have you presenting a dishonest straw man. Seems you just can't get out of that disposition.

As for deflecting...

I can't see how anything I've posted is a deflection...

I said that I think a printed magazine would be an asset to the local MTB community... And was absolutely clear in saying so.

And I believe I have clearly stuck with my position since.

Now you might not agree with the way I've present things in support of the idea, and that's fine... But to say that I'm trying to deflect is just dishonest.

Which means you're doing your straw man thing again.

Is it possible for you to participate in a discussion without trying to build straw man arguments, notyal?

Edited by RidingAgain

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6 hours ago, notyal said:

Someone calls you on that, and you deflect again with a more personal attack or your "straw man" defense or if that doesn't work its "take a chilly pilly, mon" or some other completely hypocritical "I'm just trying to be peaceful and non-confrontational" crap. 

Really?

And yet...

Here I am...

Responding to you point by point.

So there's what you said above...

And what I've actually done.

Go figure.

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6 hours ago, notyal said:

Since I know that you will reply, instead of quoting me and trying to dissect it line by line, how about replying with an argument for this magazine idea that you DO stand behind. Reveil to the rest of us dimwits here how your plan for this magazine will be successful. 

Sorry...

That's not how it works...

You've made accusations... I get to respond to them

And as for replying with an argument I "...DO stand behind..."...

Check any of my comments... With honest intentions.

You'll see that I have continually stated that I believe that a printed magazine that supports the local MTB community has potential.

And I even went as far as putting forward the though of combining both mountain biking and urban hiking, since both activities use the same trails, and the combined potential customer base may make it financially feasible... Maybe even somewhat profitable.

So... Kind of hate to say it...

But again we have you presenting yet another straw man argument in your above quoted speaking.

 

Edited by RidingAgain

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Has he posted the date for the first issue yet?

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31 minutes ago, TheX said:

Has he posted the date for the first issue yet?

Right after he finishes the wheel build

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2 minutes ago, ATXZJ said:

Right after he finishes the wheel build

So, it's going to be a while then...

 

Got it!

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The sad truth is magazines are dying. Some very big names have ceased or gone digital only. A quick Google search shows print magazines are on the decline.

A local mtb mag would purely be a labor of love. So you have to ask yourself how much time and money are you willing to donate to this?

ACA newsletter is no longer around and it was a free publication.

Best of luck to you. You got a lot of comments that weren't what you wanted to see but they have validity.

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11 hours ago, Hugh said:

The sad truth is magazines are dying. Some very big names have ceased or gone digital only. A quick Google search shows print magazines are on the decline.

A local mtb mag would purely be a labor of love. So you have to ask yourself how much time and money are you willing to donate to this?

ACA newsletter is no longer around and it was a free publication.

Best of luck to you. You got a lot of comments that weren't what you wanted to see but they have validity.


Finally...

Someone who just makes a simple, clear, unoffended comment... The type of comment that makes for a good, proper, decent discussion.

Hugh...

I fully understand that the magazine industry has gone through difficult times. But nothing in the consumer industry indicates "...magazines are dying...". And a "...quick Google search..." does not show that "...print magazines are on the decline." A quick Google search will show that the decline took place, and that there is now a leveling out of the past decline of the industry, because it has learned how to survive in this new digital-dominant age.

And why? Why are there still published print materials when we have all this wonderful digital technology?

Perhaps, among other things, because consumer trends are showing that tactile desires are on the rise. And printed material is tactile material.

No matter how many people on this website rant about a local Austin MTB magazine being of no value... I would venture to say that 90% of them would pick up an Austin-focused MTB magazine and read it if they come across one... Especially if they have heard good word-of-mouth or read great digital reviews of it.

And why not?... What harm would it be for them to do so? None whatsoever.  On the contrary, they may just gain some profit from doing it.

I daresay you yourself would pick one up and read it. I know I would.

I'm not here saying that a local MTB magazine would replace digital publishing with local mountain bikers, that would be foolish, as the whole rethinking of published printed product industry has been one of not competing with digital counterparts, but finding a way to marry the two... According to consumer trends/needs.

In the early stages of the clash between the publishing industry and the digital industry there was a stubbornness to retain the previous identity/position/ways that had been the publishing industry's standards for a hundred + years. But that was two decades ago.

I remember when, back in the mid-late '90s those in the digital industry were touting that print was dead, and that printed magazines and newspapers would soon be a thing of the past... That was over twenty years ago... And yet... Here we are, twenty+ years later still reading printed newspapers and magazines.

Is it because consumers have just been slow to accept the inevitable change?

Or because the digital publishing industry has not delivered what is necessary to shut down printed newspapers and magazines?

Or is it because the digital publishing industry has an inherent problem (too much static) that allows things like printed newspapers and magazines to continue... Albeit in a revamped manner?

Or maybe it's a mixture of all three.

Perhaps there will come a day where print is dead... But that hasn't happened as yet... And is not on the near-future horizon.

What is here today is a melding of the two... A marrying of print with digital... And it's been extremely successful.

If you were visiting Bentonvile to go ride the MTB trails and there was a magazine on Bentonville MTB trail riding available to you... Would you pick one up and read it?

I think you would. Shoot... You might even pick one up if you were not going to Bentonville but saw it on the table in a friend's home.

Why?... Because of the inherent value you'd see in it. Whether that value be a matter of entertainment, information gathering, or simply mild interest, or perhaps a mixture of all four.

And what would it matter to the publisher of the magazine — in a general sense/context — why you picked it up and read through it. The fact that you did pick it up to read would mean they had another pair of eyes seeing the content within it. And that's what they would be after.

Some people on this website can say whatever they want... But the fact is... Published print material still has power to draw eyes to it, and as such, has inherent value.

Will that change in time... Maybe... But for now and the near future... It remains a fact.

On the ACA newsletter that shut down... I don't know what it was, and it being free is not necessarily a model that is guaranteed success.

Regarding the comments I got... The only comments that I find useless are those that were made for the specific purpose of trolling... And after more than twenty years of participating on online forums, trolls and their comments are like water off a ducks back for me. Trolls are simply the dregs of online communities. The sludge runoff of the necessary human participation found on online communities. And like literal sludge... It simply needs to be chucked out.

Finally...

On the matter of "...Best of luck..." to me...

I've never said I was undertaking a print magazine project... Or even thinking about doing so.

I already have my business that I am involved in on a daily basis.

This discussion came up because of complaints and concerns about people who do not use trails in a proper manner, and I suggested that having a magazine on MTBing in Austin would be helpful in countering this by educating folks about the matter, and about matters in general about local mtbing.

I started this thread to simply explore the idea. So whether it gets done or doesn't get done is not really a life or death situation to me. I've been developing products for decades... Product development is something I enjoy and is like a second nature to me. And if nothing more... Thinking things through for this idea has been a wonderful exercising of my mind in an area that I haven't touched on for maybe six or more years. And I'm good with exercising my mind. In fact I love doing so... And it's one of the reasons I love mountain biking, as for me every ride presents the opportunity for exercising of my mind.

Edited by RidingAgain

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Holy shit! SEVEN more replies? 

Can't wait to see the first issue, gonna be epic.

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Typical. As predicted, a personal attack calling me dishonest followed by a non-answer. Since we are now just reposting old quotes from this thread, how about this one?

 
Since I know that you will reply, instead of quoting me and trying to dissect it line by line, how about replying with an argument for this magazine idea that you DO stand behind. Reveil to the rest of us dimwits here how your plan for this magazine will be successful. 

  • Like 1

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33 minutes ago, TheX said:

Holy shit! SEVEN more replies? 

Can't wait to see the first issue, gonna be epic.

Ive always enjoyed that I can make a once sentence reply to "him" and that can elicit a 7-8 post response full tilt tantrum.  Does this while also claiming "he" doesn't get upset. Jamaica mon'.........lolz

I know one thing for sure. The tech section is gonna be BANGIN'!!

Edited by ATXZJ

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46 minutes ago, ATXZJ said:

I know one thing for sure. The tech section is gonna be BANGIN'!!

It will feature all the cool projects he's posted about, with pics and videos,. The completed projects will be amazing!

  • Haha 1

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1 hour ago, notyal said:

Typical. As predicted, a personal attack calling me dishonest followed by a non-answer. Since we are now just reposting old quotes from this thread, how about this one?


But your speaking was dishonest. Trying to introduce a straw man to a discussion is dishonest speaking. And you tried to introduce a straw man into our discussion on multiple occasions.

Now you're upset that your dishonesty has been exposed, and instead of simply admitting you got it wrong, you're trying to take the bully route. Which is... Check this out... Typical of persons who can't admit when they are wrong.

See how that worked out for you, notyal.

As for your request...

I'm confident I've already met it... Maybe even exceeded it.

Are you ready to move on?

Edited by RidingAgain

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