kevinkiller Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 https://www.statesman.com/news/20200731/austin-to-reopen-barton-creek-greenbelt-but-require-reservations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 The good news is reservations are only Thursday through Sunday so unemployed guys like me get a break. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBaron Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 Never been a better time than now to ride-to-the-ride.... -CJB 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 OK, I just went in and created a reservation for next week. Here's the lowdown: 1. There appears to be the following entrances: Hill of Life, Gaines creek (Mopac), 360, Zilker, Gus Fruh, Spyglass, and Homedale drive. 2. There is no cost associated. 3. I am guessing that if they are patrolling they *could* ask to see your authorization, but I am unclear if this is only for parking/entrance or for usage. For instance, it is not clear if you start somewhere else or ride to the ride if you need a reservation. 4. Passes are for 10:30-3:00 or 3:00-7 It is unclear if this means no passes before 10:30. With August heat, who is gonna start that late? Overall this is an extra level of pain in the ass but because I just don't generally use those starting points I'm not sure this will be that much of an issue. The passes for the greenbelt *appear* to be for the entrance and not for parking. There were talks about making the HOL entrance paid street parking. If I go next week I'll report back. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 (edited) Got this on the receipt: Quote Entry to the Barton Creek Greenbelt Mopac Trailhead at Gaines Creek is for the date and time slot printed on the pass (no reentry). Cloth face covering required. Have attached entry pass ready for display; ticket numbers will be verified upon arrival. All transactions are final. And on the ticket: Quote Valid for: <date, location and time> Pass Number: <number> Please enjoy the Barton Creek Greenbelt by following Leave No Trace. *Plan Ahead and Prepare *Wear a mask and social distance to stay safe. *Parking in this area is limited. *Glass and alcohol are prohibited. *Stick to designated trails. *Pack it in, pack it out. Pack out all trash, pet waste, and leftover food. *Leave what you find. *Respect Wildlife *Be Considerate of Others As of July 28, 2020, a Burn Ban is ACTIVE - No flames, fires, cooking fires are permitted. Updates are posted at: austintexas.gov/parks Nowhere does it say anything about "leave this on your windshield" or in view for your car. These appear to be specifically for entrance to the trail. The data above is somewhat redacted, there is more on the actual pass. Edited August 7, 2020 by AustinBike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Gringo Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 So . . . are we cool with having to make a reservation to ride our bikes on a weekend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 Well, that is an interesting question. Are we OK with this: In the world of COVID all bets are off. That chart is just Texas and as we continue to toss another 6-8,000 Texans per day onto the fire, it's pretty clear that we don't have a good plan and some steps need to be taken. What we don't know is: 1. If you aren't starting from one of those primary 5-6 starting places, does it matter? 2. If you are starting before 10:30 does it matter? 3. Are they patrolling the trails and stopping people randomly to check for reservations? Clearly I would rather have none of this, but because I don't park at those trailheads and I start before 10:30 this may be a total non-issue. If it helps limit the number of idiots that are out there on the main trail that may not be a bad thing. If I ride the GB it will be with a bandana because I know the types of people who frequent it on the weekends (as evidenced by the empty beer cans and trash) and I just don't trust them. We live in weird times and to some degree we need to stop asking are we ok with this because the last time we argued "are we OK with this" was back in May when we were shut down. People argued that the shutdown was unnecessary and that we could all be adults and really be responsible for ourselves. Just look up at that chart again and look at May vs. July to see how well we did. With school starts all in a state of flux and the impact that will bring to both families and the economy, is having this restriction so onerous? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 Oh wait, you still think you can hide from the virus? At least Sweden got it right. I love the way you call people with a different opinion *idiots*. I read a post from you recently where you made everyone in the entire state of Texas one big generalization because you didn't like how some people think. Wow, just wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Gringo Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 So that's interesting. The trails were closed to protect us from "the virus." And they conditioned folks to a "new normal." But if you read the article, the reservation program has nothing to do with the virus: “With increased traffic to the Greenbelt, litter (including pet waste), erosion, trail damage, water quality issues, and injuries continue to rise,” the parks department said. “Neighborhoods surrounding the residential entrances are particularly impacted by heavy traffic, public intoxication, and trash. By closely monitoring usage during the pilot program, Park Rangers will gather insight for future Barton Creek Greenbelt management strategies, educational opportunities and funding requirements.” In a world before they scared you with a virus, would you have been ok with the above plan/explanation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 We lost Forest Ridge to birds We lost s****y to developers City park is perpetually in danger We've lost plenty of trails. I look at it this way: doing small simple things to help preserve what we love is a small price to pay. What if this is a trailhead issue only? There is no indication that people will be patrolling the GB looking for tickets, this seems like a way to modulate access. I'd rather not have it, but if it increases the probability that access is not lost then I am ok with it. Austin is growing and this is no different than the traffic issues we face. I'd rather have the city trying to figure out how to manage it then just say screw it and either wall it off or sell it off to developers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tip Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 ..because of "erosion." They always talk about erosion like it's a toxic gas or something. That's the fall back ruse in trying to shut things down. I remember a picture of "erosion" they used in the City Park discussion. It was like 4" high into a 6" wide ditch. Oh the horror! It would have been laughable except for the evil intent behind it. The Grand Canyon is a pretty good example of erosion. And yet the world still survives! What kills me is that if and when erosion is evident it usually is so simple to fix and cure. It's not global warming! But the paragraph El Gringo posted sounds like they are trying to placate the neighborhoods around the well known trail heads. Ok, sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 Yeah, it's an overly complicated situation with a lot of subtleties, the gringo laid some out. In my opinion this is an area where ARR could really step up and help the community overall. My biggest fear is that the next "Karen" video we see is gonna be from a GB trailhead. God I hope it is some frat boy carrying a cooler and not a mountain biker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tip Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 Worst case: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyt Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, The Tip said: ..because of "erosion." They always talk about erosion like it's a toxic gas or something. That's the fall back ruse in trying to shut things down. I remember a picture of "erosion" they used in the City Park discussion. It was like 4" high into a 6" wide ditch. Oh the horror! It would have been laughable except for the evil intent behind it. The Grand Canyon is a pretty good example of erosion. And yet the world still survives! What kills me is that if and when erosion is evident it usually is so simple to fix and cure. It's not global warming! But the paragraph El Gringo posted sounds like they are trying to placate the neighborhoods around the well known trail heads. Ok, sure. when I was fighting with the city to keep cat open they admitted that natural erosion was much larger than anything people would do. Erosion is a big deal when you are building a subdivision and all that dirt clogs up a waterway. But erosion doesnt always matter. In santa barbara, erosion is eating cliffs and threatens to destroy homes. In most of our area erosion is a complete non issue. The city also said that trails create impervious cover.. Edited August 7, 2020 by crazyt 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXZJ Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 (edited) Im currently watching excavators strip all the trees and grass from the hillside across from me. The COA, in their greed fueled wisdom are allowing developers to destroy some of the last of the remaining land with any elevation in south austin. The COA is also allowing the developers to build without retention ponds and instead install a 9ft drainage pipe to channel all the water from these developments right into onion creek. That will without a doubt will erode houses from their slabs during the next big flood. Hypocrites. rant/off Edited August 7, 2020 by ATXZJ 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cafeend Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 Im currently watching excavators strip all the trees and grass from the hillside across from me. The COA, in their greed fueled wisdom are allowing developers to destroy some of the last of the remaining land with any elevation in south austin. The COA is also allowing the developers to build without retention ponds and instead install a 9ft drainage pipe to channel all the water from these developments right into onion creek. That will without a doubt will erode houses from their slabs during the next big flood. Hypocrites. rant/offWait.. doesn't that whole area flood? Just a couple years ago there was bad flooding right? Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXZJ Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 (edited) 19 hours ago, Cafeend said: Wait.. doesn't that whole area flood? Just a couple years ago there was bad flooding right? Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk Yes 2013 & 2015. The worst part is they're dumping all that water into upper Onion Creek (my neighborhood) and that will all flow down into lower Onion Creek which will get it much worse. HOA tried to work with the city for flood mitigation but they instead passed a $95m bond to buy all the houses up for top dollar , develop the hillside, and then and let it all flood. Also, everyone in Travis county is paying for this through their taxes. Edited August 8, 2020 by ATXZJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bamwa Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 So Lost Creek is the jam now? If the City can't even spend for poop/trash patrols, or protect the turnaround from broken car windows, how are they gonna enforce this. It just keeps the drunken groups of kids out. I love how the city grows and gets more and more taxes, while the Trails Foundation has to beg and have fundraisers to plant some grasses......holy cow, what Asses! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 So Austin is following the Houston model for flood mitigation now? Great! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 On 8/6/2020 at 8:00 PM, AustinBike said: Got this on the receipt: And on the ticket: Nowhere does it say anything about "leave this on your windshield" or in view for your car. These appear to be specifically for entrance to the trail. The data above is somewhat redacted, there is more on the actual pass. Yeah, this ... ugh. The legality/ethical issue notwithstanding, I experienced a similar degree of confusion trying to figure out if I could ride the greenbelt a few weeks ago. Funemployment! I visited the city website and read the page on the parks closures and to see if I could figure it out. I couldn't. The language there was really unclear, non-specific, and seemed contradictory in spots. Doesn't seem like it has improved any. I went and rode Reimers' instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyt Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) can someone summarize his points? As far as I can tell it is city owned property and as our elected representatives they can define rules to close it. Even though I disagree with the reasons behind the closures (outside gatherings are actually relatively safe unless people have massive crowds) I think the city absolutely has the power to close the parks that it owns or charge money for entry into the parks or ban mountain bikers or approve or ban particular trails. Edited August 11, 2020 by crazyt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyt Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 On 8/7/2020 at 6:21 AM, AustinBike said: Well, that is an interesting question. Are we OK with this: In the world of COVID all bets are off. That chart is just Texas and as we continue to toss another 6-8,000 Texans per day onto the fire, it's pretty clear that we don't have a good plan and some steps need to be taken. What we don't know is: 1. If you aren't starting from one of those primary 5-6 starting places, does it matter? 2. If you are starting before 10:30 does it matter? 3. Are they patrolling the trails and stopping people randomly to check for reservations? Clearly I would rather have none of this, but because I don't park at those trailheads and I start before 10:30 this may be a total non-issue. If it helps limit the number of idiots that are out there on the main trail that may not be a bad thing. If I ride the GB it will be with a bandana because I know the types of people who frequent it on the weekends (as evidenced by the empty beer cans and trash) and I just don't trust them. We live in weird times and to some degree we need to stop asking are we ok with this because the last time we argued "are we OK with this" was back in May when we were shut down. People argued that the shutdown was unnecessary and that we could all be adults and really be responsible for ourselves. Just look up at that chart again and look at May vs. July to see how well we did. With school starts all in a state of flux and the impact that will bring to both families and the economy, is having this restriction so onerous? The part that you are glossing over is that the only people that are getting sick are the people that are not quarantining or associating with people that arent quarantining. Anyone can choose to quarantine (even people in nursing homes can choose to quarantine and most of them will decide that getting taken care of is more important than quarantining). People are making the choice (sometimes they are tough choices) to not quarantine and those are the people that are getting sick. "We" are not throwing 6-8K into the fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tip Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, crazyt said: I think the city absolutely has the power to close the parks that it owns. WHO owns it? Is Adler "the city" or, are you and I "the city?" I think his rant is about Adler trying to grab ownership from me and you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyt Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Tip said: WHO owns it? Is Adler "the city" or, are you and I "the city?" I think his rant is about Adler trying to grab ownership from me and you. We have elected adler and the city council to administer it on our behalf. We all have shared ownership and therefore have delegated operations to the city. You could want it wide open and other people could want it closed. You and they dont decide directly, but through your elected representatives. If you own shares of mcdonalds, can you go in and do whatever you want at a corporate owned mcdonalds restaurant? No because you are only a part owner with millions of other owners. The corporate structure delegates power to the board who then delegates power to the employees. Im much more upset about forest ridge which was promised to stay open and then the city essentially closed it except to bird enthusiasts. The city council actually mandated that it be opened for recreational use, but the city department has essentially stalled until the effort died. I will be upset if the city closes trails to mtb because of birdwatchers (but I wont dispute they have the power to do it) Edited August 11, 2020 by crazyt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 They still have to follow law, let that determine who's right. Y'all can argue with each other, have fun with that. I'll ride elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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