loop_out Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 I am looking for some technical advice on a setup for wheels. A few months ago, I switched over from a hardtail with a carbon wheelset to a FS with an alloy wheelset. I rode the hardtail for nearly 2 years without having to true or tweak the spokes for tension. Since the switch to the alloy wheelset on the FS, I have had numerous issues with my rear wheel. I usually check my spoke tension after rides, and I would often find a few very loose spokes, sometimes such that I can actually turn the spokes with my hand. Ultimately, I had to have the rear wheel rebuilt with a new rim. Thinking I would fare better with a hand built set, I bought set of I9 alloy wheelset to serve as my primary wheelset. I've had the exact same experience with this wheelset. I do a lot of drops, but I ride the FS bike no differently than how I rode the HT. I did have numerous pinch flats on my HT with the carbon wheels, but I never had any wheel issues per se. On the FS bike with the alloy wheels, I have never had a pinch flat, but numerous wheel issues as I indicated. This makes me think that I am running sufficient pressure (I am less than 160lbs and run about 24-26 PSIs in the back). Do y'all think that switching the rear wheel to carbon will solve my issues? At my weight, I feel like more air in the rear tire will compromise traction too much, but might that really be the answer? I am definitely not the smoothest rider out there, but it does not seem right to have gone through two rear wheels/rims in just a few months at my weight. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXZJ Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) 50 minutes ago, loop_out said: I am looking for some technical advice on a setup for wheels. A few months ago, I switched over from a hardtail with a carbon wheelset to a FS with an alloy wheelset. I rode the hardtail for nearly 2 years without having to true or tweak the spokes for tension. Since the switch to the alloy wheelset on the FS, I have had numerous issues with my rear wheel. I usually check my spoke tension after rides, and I would often find a few very loose spokes, sometimes such that I can actually turn the spokes with my hand. Ultimately, I had to have the rear wheel rebuilt with a new rim. Thinking I would fare better with a hand built set, I bought set of I9 alloy wheelset to serve as my primary wheelset. I've had the exact same experience with this wheelset. I do a lot of drops, but I ride the FS bike no differently than how I rode the HT. I did have numerous pinch flats on my HT with the carbon wheels, but I never had any wheel issues per se. On the FS bike with the alloy wheels, I have never had a pinch flat, but numerous wheel issues as I indicated. This makes me think that I am running sufficient pressure (I am less than 160lbs and run about 24-26 PSIs in the back). Do y'all think that switching the rear wheel to carbon will solve my issues? At my weight, I feel like more air in the rear tire will compromise traction too much, but might that really be the answer? I am definitely not the smoothest rider out there, but it does not seem right to have gone through two rear wheels/rims in just a few months at my weight. Thanks! I'd leave as is and install one of these to address the pinch flats etc https://www.vittoria.com/us/en/bike-accessories/tire-inserts Beyond that, Ex 511 DT Edited February 1, 2021 by ATXZJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonioGG Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 57 minutes ago, loop_out said: I am looking for some technical advice on a setup for wheels. A few months ago, I switched over from a hardtail with a carbon wheelset to a FS with an alloy wheelset. I rode the hardtail for nearly 2 years without having to true or tweak the spokes for tension. Since the switch to the alloy wheelset on the FS, I have had numerous issues with my rear wheel. I usually check my spoke tension after rides, and I would often find a few very loose spokes, sometimes such that I can actually turn the spokes with my hand. Ultimately, I had to have the rear wheel rebuilt with a new rim. Thinking I would fare better with a hand built set, I bought set of I9 alloy wheelset to serve as my primary wheelset. I've had the exact same experience with this wheelset. I do a lot of drops, but I ride the FS bike no differently than how I rode the HT. I did have numerous pinch flats on my HT with the carbon wheels, but I never had any wheel issues per se. On the FS bike with the alloy wheels, I have never had a pinch flat, but numerous wheel issues as I indicated. This makes me think that I am running sufficient pressure (I am less than 160lbs and run about 24-26 PSIs in the back). Do y'all think that switching the rear wheel to carbon will solve my issues? At my weight, I feel like more air in the rear tire will compromise traction too much, but might that really be the answer? I am definitely not the smoothest rider out there, but it does not seem right to have gone through two rear wheels/rims in just a few months at my weight. Thanks! Any lacing differences (# crosses) between your HT carbon wheels and your FS alloy wheels? How about tension limits on the rims and hubs? Any differences there? Finally, spoke prep? I had a setup with a powertap hub and Stans alloy rims I could never keep tensioned due to tension limits from the hub. This was a wheel build from a good and experienced wheelbuilder. I only solved the problem when I changed the lacing pattern as recommended by the PT hub. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattlikesbikes Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 1 hour ago, loop_out said: I am looking for some technical advice on a setup for wheels. A few months ago, I switched over from a hardtail with a carbon wheelset to a FS with an alloy wheelset. I rode the hardtail for nearly 2 years without having to true or tweak the spokes for tension. Since the switch to the alloy wheelset on the FS, I have had numerous issues with my rear wheel. I usually check my spoke tension after rides, and I would often find a few very loose spokes, sometimes such that I can actually turn the spokes with my hand. Ultimately, I had to have the rear wheel rebuilt with a new rim. Thinking I would fare better with a hand built set, I bought set of I9 alloy wheelset to serve as my primary wheelset. I've had the exact same experience with this wheelset. I do a lot of drops, but I ride the FS bike no differently than how I rode the HT. I did have numerous pinch flats on my HT with the carbon wheels, but I never had any wheel issues per se. On the FS bike with the alloy wheels, I have never had a pinch flat, but numerous wheel issues as I indicated. This makes me think that I am running sufficient pressure (I am less than 160lbs and run about 24-26 PSIs in the back). Do y'all think that switching the rear wheel to carbon will solve my issues? At my weight, I feel like more air in the rear tire will compromise traction too much, but might that really be the answer? I am definitely not the smoothest rider out there, but it does not seem right to have gone through two rear wheels/rims in just a few months at my weight. Thanks! Honestly, I am willing to bet the alloy wheels just were not built well enough and pretensioned enough before riding. It's not as much of an issue with a carbon hoop, but with an alloy rim, you HAVE to tension and detension correctly during the build up. I'm happy to look at your rear wheel and see how it looks with regards to tensioning. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 What brand alloy hoops are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 18 minutes ago, Chief said: What brand alloy hoops are they? Sounds like whoopty-hoops 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loop_out Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 The original wheel is Ibis S35 w/Ibis hubs. I am currently running Industry 9 1/1 with Enduro S hoops. The carbon hoops on my HT was Bontrager Line Pro. Going to FS has pretty much eliminated pinch flat issues I had with the HT, but I've been frustrated by how unreliable my rear wheel has been. Perhaps they were both poorly built from the get go as Mattlikesbikes has suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loop_out Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Mattlikesbikes said: Honestly, I am willing to bet the alloy wheels just were not built well enough and pretensioned enough before riding. It's not as much of an issue with a carbon hoop, but with an alloy rim, you HAVE to tension and detension correctly during the build up. I'm happy to look at your rear wheel and see how it looks with regards to tensioning. That would be great. I think I read somewhere on here that you are a great wheel builder. I will PM you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circuitbreaker Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 12 minutes ago, loop_out said: The original wheel is Ibis S35 w/Ibis hubs. I am currently running Industry 9 1/1 with Enduro S hoops. The carbon hoops on my HT was Bontrager Line Pro. Going to FS has pretty much eliminated pinch flat issues I had with the HT, but I've been frustrated by how unreliable my rear wheel has been. Perhaps they were both poorly built from the get go as Mattlikesbikes has suggested. In my experience, when running tubeless, Carbon rims are notorious for pinch flats on the rear. I have never had a tubeless pinch flat on an alloy rim. (although i'm sure its possible) Personally, i solved this issue by going to Maxxis DD casing in the rear and keeping my pressure up. But, i wouldn't assume the change from HT to FS made much difference regarding pinch flats. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cafeend Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 9 minutes ago, circuitbreaker said: In my experience, when running tubeless, Carbon rims are notorious for pinch flats on the rear. I have never had a tubeless pinch flat on an alloy rim. (although i'm sure its possible) Personally, i solved this issue by going to Maxxis DD casing in the rear and keeping my pressure up. But, i wouldn't assume the change from HT to FS made much difference regarding pinch flats. S0,, Merely curious, How does one have tubeless pinch flats when one doesnt have a tube? Nothing there to pinch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loop_out Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 10 minutes ago, circuitbreaker said: In my experience, when running tubeless, Carbon rims are notorious for pinch flats on the rear. I have never had a tubeless pinch flat on an alloy rim. (although i'm sure its possible) Personally, i solved this issue by going to Maxxis DD casing in the rear and keeping my pressure up. But, i wouldn't assume the change from HT to FS made much difference regarding pinch flats. That's an interesting point and agree that there are number of factors at play. I think I was running lighter tires on the HT, so I am sure that contributed as well. In any case, for the way I ride, change from HT to FS seems to be a big factor for pinch flats that occur on drops. I have pinch flatted many times on a previous HT running alloy rims, but only recall only one pinch flat running alloy rims on prior FS bikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circuitbreaker Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 7 minutes ago, Cafeend said: S0,, Merely curious, How does one have tubeless pinch flats when one doesnt have a tube? Nothing there to pinch the carbon rim is very stiff, while the tire sidewall will deform a ton, so basically the edge of the rim cuts through the tire right above the bead: https://www.bikemag.com/gear-features/blueprint/blueprint-enve-eliminates-pinch-flats/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cafeend Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Cool. ThanksSent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamsloan Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 The original wheel is Ibis S35 w/Ibis hubs. I am currently running Industry 9 1/1 with Enduro S hoops. The carbon hoops on my HT was Bontrager Line Pro. Going to FS has pretty much eliminated pinch flat issues I had with the HT, but I've been frustrated by how unreliable my rear wheel has been. Perhaps they were both poorly built from the get go as Mattlikesbikes has suggested. I have a set of i9 Enduro S wheels that are a year old. In the fall I popped two spokes and sent it in to i9. The service rep with i9 said that they actually were have a small issue on a batch of their steel spoked wheels with spoke windup during the builds. This would result in de-tensioning once the wheel was ridden. Apparently their de-tentioning process during the build wasn’t working. They took my wheel back and rebuilt it completely with all new spokes and nips. So far so good. If your i9’s were bought new I would contact them.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonioGG Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 On 1/26/2021 at 5:58 PM, AntonioGG said: So as soon as I'm done working I'm going to remove, re-grease, and re-install the cassette as well as grease the hub. Update: It was the cassette. The GRX cassette is multi-part. The person that assembled this bike used a super sticky sulfur smelling lube. Almost like Phil Wood Tenacious oil. A bunch of grit had accumulated. It was also too easy to remove the nut. I cleaned it all off and used regular grease then torqued to 40Nm and the creak is finally gone! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 42 minutes ago, AntonioGG said: Update: It was the cassette. The GRX cassette is multi-part. The person that assembled this bike used a super sticky sulfur smelling lube. Almost like Phil Wood Tenacious oil. A bunch of grit had accumulated. It was also too easy to remove the nut. I cleaned it all off and used regular grease then torqued to 40Nm and the creak is finally gone! The GRX group set doesn't have a cassette. You have to use other Shimano cassettes (or compatible). https://bike.shimano.com/en-AU/product/component/grx-11-speed.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamsloan Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 The GRX group set doesn't have a cassette. You have to use other Shimano cassettes (or compatible). https://bike.shimano.com/en-AU/product/component/grx-11-speed.htmlThat can’t be! Shimano says right there in the marketing blurb that GRX isn’t a reworked road group but instead a ground up look?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 They have GRX *compatible* cassettes listed, does that count? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 8 hours ago, Teamsloan said: That can’t be! Shimano says right there in the marketing blurb that GRX isn’t a reworked road group but instead a ground up look? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Stop giving marketing a bad name. If it were not for us you people would have no idea what to buy 😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share Posted February 2, 2021 10 hours ago, Teamsloan said: I have a set of i9 Enduro S wheels that are a year old. In the fall I popped two spokes and sent it in to i9. The service rep with i9 said that they actually were have a small issue on a batch of their steel spoked wheels with spoke windup during the builds. This would result in de-tensioning once the wheel was ridden. Apparently their de-tentioning process during the build wasn’t working. They took my wheel back and rebuilt it completely with all new spokes and nips. So far so good. If your i9’s were bought new I would contact them. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Jesus! How much spoke wind up are we talking about? I guess if they're machine built and no QC that might be an issue but typically when I build a set of wheels a quarter turn would be a lot of spoke wind up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamsloan Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 It wouldn’t have to be much. I’m pretty sure all i9 wheels are hand built. So maybe the fact that “a batch” was bad according to i9 means they had a builder who is likely not employed there any longer. The “s” level wheels use the same aluminum rims as their bling system wheels. So I’m pretty sure it was just builder error. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4fun Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Teamsloan said: It wouldn’t have to be much. I’m pretty sure all i9 wheels are hand built. So maybe the fact that “a batch” was bad according to i9 means they had a builder who is likely not employed there any longer. The “s” level wheels use the same aluminum rims as their bling system wheels. So I’m pretty sure it was just builder error. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Have to agreed here! I have a set of i9 backcountry torch wheels and weigh 220lbs and they are likely the best built wheels I’ve owned. I’ve bent the spokes with large rocks flipping up from my plus tires and the wheel has remained true. I’d definitely shoot them an email or give a call and bet they would make it right. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattlikesbikes Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Teamsloan said: It wouldn’t have to be much. I’m pretty sure all i9 wheels are hand built. So maybe the fact that “a batch” was bad according to i9 means they had a builder who is likely not employed there any longer. The “s” level wheels use the same aluminum rims as their bling system wheels. So I’m pretty sure it was just builder error. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Maybe not a people issue and maybe just a bad tensiometer or something. Wheels going out under tension are going to cause problems too. i9 doesn't seem to use any kind of spoke prep and may not use any nipple lubricant, which could cause mass problems as well. Nipples not turning smoothly will cause spoke twist that wouldn't come out without good detensioning/flex. That said, a new builder, rushing builds and throwing too much tension into a wheel too quick without detensioning, is going to certainly lead to problems. Even perhaps a batch of problems. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 I get the impression that the unprecedented high demand for bike components for the past year has caused a lapse in QC consistency. I9 is likely not immune. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4fun Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Mattlikesbikes said: i9 doesn't seem to use any kind of spoke prep I think they use linseed oil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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