Austin Ridge Riders... FR512...

[RidingAgain]

Just considering these two membership organizations and wondered how folks out there in Austin mtb land viewed both?

 

[crazyt]

ARR prob a better fit for your riding style.

[RidingAgain]

Okay... 

So you see ARR as representing a type of mtb riding/rider, and FR512 representing another type of mtb riding/rider?
 

Edited December 26, 2018 by RidingAgain

[First-Blood]

Just considering these two membership organizations and wondered how folks out there in Austin mtb land viewed both?

 

 

Been in both. They are very different. If you want your money to go to helping access to all trails and be apart of a bigger community then ARR is what you want.

If you want your money to go to making progressive riding in 2 locations then FR512 is it. FR doesnt do any community outreach or advocate for mountain bikers but they sure do make some fun shit.

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[RidingAgain]

12 hours ago, First-Blood said:

Been in both. They are very different. If you want your money to go to helping access to all trails and be apart of a bigger community then ARR is what you want.

If you want your money to go to making progressive riding in 2 locations then FR512 is it. FR doesnt do any community outreach or advocate for mountain bikers but they sure do make some fun shit.

 

Okay...

So again there's something of a definite difference being identified here... ARR is about helping with trail access and providing opportunity for people to be a part of a bigger community... Whereas FR512 is not about community outreach or advocating for mountain bikers, but is about making "...progressive riding..." trails (I'm assuming that's what was meant) that makes for riding fun trails.

[Seths Pool]

In all honesty though riding along, you can probably pretty easily take a quick look at the public websites for both clubs, and easily evaluate the advertised differences of each organizations comparatively between eachother.  

Tell me what you have deduced so far and we will go from there 🙂

http://www.freeride512.com

https://www.facebook.com/AustinRidgeRiders/

(looks like ARR page web address is no longer valid and they have migrated to use facebook 

 

any specific questions? 

Edited December 27, 2018 by Seths Pool

[RidingAgain]

Hey Seth... I had a long talk with cxagent about many things Austin mtb related and one of the matters we spoke about was trail building and how mtb riders may look at it these days. Based on what I'm seeing/understanding, ARR may be viewed in one way, and FR512 (and other mtb initiatives) in another way. This can be a good thing for both, or not so good for one... In terms of support (personnel and monetary)... Which both rely on. 

Although the two organizations may work together on certain things, what I'm seeing is that FR512 seems to be promoting something that comes across as more current/hip/exciting/fun in the mtb world than ARR, which could be somewhat detrimental to ARR. And yet... It seems that ARR is taking care of the foundational necessities that allow mtbing in Austin to be maintained, and grown, on a wider more general public level.

Now the two are different organizations with different missions/objectives (apart from the general thought of developing the sport of mountain biking), but in a small community, this kind of situation can often lead to one syphoning off support for the other... Which can then lead to the demise of the one from losing support.

In my view, it should be of concern to the Austin mtb community that ARR's website isn't up and running. But I've seen no one talk about it here, except you bringing up in your above comment.

In our phone conversation, I told cxagent that I would be willing to help ARR in whatever way I could. To do this, one of the needs I have is to gain a clear/proper understanding of how the local mtb community views all things to do with mtbing in Austin. I started this thread to help me, and possibly others who are also interested, come to a better understanding regarding this particular aspect of the local mtb community.

In my experience, initiatives are started in communities with a view to meeting certain identified needs. Which is wonderful. But sometimes as things progress, some already established undertakings can be impacted (often, negatively) by these new efforts. And in the excitment and forward push of the new initiative, this impact is lost in all the related activity. Which is not to say that it was intended... It's just something that can happen. And I'm trying to understand how the initiaves of FR512 — and any other new mtb initiatives — has/will impact ARR.






 

Edited December 27, 2018 by RidingAgain

[crazyt]

ARR mainly supports XC riding and XC trails. ARR (and IMBA) did not support  mountain biking in designated wilderness areas which was disappointing.

Freeride 512 supports freeride trails (you can look up the definitions). Most riders are XC as it is easier.

[4fun]

3 minutes ago, crazyt said:

ARR mainly supports XC riding and XC trails. ARR (and IMBA) did not support  mountain biking in designated wilderness areas which was disappointing.

Freeride 512 supports freeride trails (you can look up the definitions). Most riders are XC as it is easier.

I wouldn’t say IMBA only supports XC trails. Have you seen some of trails the IMBA builders are doing in Arkansas!

[4fun]

I also wouldn’t try to pit ARR against 512! IMOP 512 is not taking anything from ARR. And the membership cost for both is so cheap relative to the cost of being involved in mountain biking in general, that if there is any debate in your mind you should just join both!!!!

[larlev]

34 minutes ago, 4fun said:

I also wouldn’t try to pit ARR against 512! IMOP 512 is not taking anything from ARR. And the membership cost for both is so cheap relative to the cost of being involved in mountain biking in general, that if there is any debate in your mind you should just join both!!!!

Yep, exactly what I'm doing

[throet]

I haven't participated in any ARR activities in a couple of years, but I still renew my membership and donate each year, now through IMBA. When I was first getting into MTB, the ARR scheduled rides were a great way to explore local trails and meet other riders. I assume that they still do those rides and I highly recommend them for people who are new to the sport or new to the area. I just prefer to ride on my own or in smaller groups these days. As far as FR512 goes, if I end up joining there it would be for access to Cat Mountain and exposure to more aggressive riding. I wouldn't view it as an alternative to ARR, who I support for their overall advocacy and trail stewardship. As 4fun stated above, joining both is definitely an option that should be considered.  

[TheX]

17 minutes ago, throet said:

I haven't participated in any ARR activities in a couple of years, but I still renew my membership and donate each year, now through IMBA. When I was first getting into MTB, the ARR scheduled rides were a great way to explore local trails and meet other riders. I assume that they still do those rides and I highly recommend them for people who are new to the sport or new to the area. I just prefer to ride on my own or in smaller groups these days. As far as FR512 goes, if I end up joining there it would be for access to Cat Mountain and exposure to more aggressive riding. I wouldn't view it as an alternative to ARR, who I support for their overall advocacy and trail stewardship. As 4fun stated above, joining both is definitely an option that should be considered.  

This is a spot on post. I am a member through IMBA also, seriously considering adding FR512.

[AntonioGG]

I agree that it is a problem that ARR is going FB only.  I’m trying to get away from FB completely.   I’d love for my clubs to instead have a simple forum or directory in this forum.

[Ridenfool]

I've never used Facebook. Any company or organization that only uses that medium will likely not reach me with their shared info.

[CBaron]

Another non-FB user here...

-CJB

[endo_]

As someone who has actually managed the ARR site for awhile, thank you to the three of you who visited! I really appreciated your support. Managing communication for email, a Facebook site,twitter site,Instagram site, mojo, arr website and a meetup page all for the different needs of the people is painful at best and to be honest not worth it. Consolidating forums had to happen. I suggest if you are adamant that ARR reinstate their site, join the board and take over managing the program. I’m sure Charlie and team would love some new blood and new ideas.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[crazyt]

5 hours ago, 4fun said:

I wouldn’t say IMBA only supports XC trails. Have you seen some of trails the IMBA builders are doing in Arkansas!

I never said IMBA only supports XC trails.

[cxagent]

Consider this to be one person's opinion - NOT the position of ARR as an organization.

ARR builds and maintains trails according to what the land owner / land manager will allow. Add to that the ARR insurance has limits on what can be built or allowed. Since most of the ARR built trails are on public lands and the land manager is required to allow the public at large to use them - they tend to be "less advanced" trails because the land manager is concerned about Mr No Helmet Never Been On A Bike Before He Stopped At Walmart Today. Beginner trails, easy trails and even as I have told lately "wheel chair ramps" are not what ARR wants to build and maintain. But it is what is allowed in some locations by the land managers. So what would you pick - build and maintain trails that are allowed or not build "easy" trails to raise ARR's reputation? ARR has chosen building trails over the ARR reputation. I agree with that.

And the land manager have a good point. Has anyone heard the screaming, bitching and moaning about how "dangerous" the Pace Bend TMBRA race is. My wife calls Pace Bend her favorite trail. "Dangerous" my ass. She is not an aggressive rider. 

Has anybody ridden Lake Georgetown? I know, I know - beginner trail built by ARR. How about RPR? Oh yeah, wheel chair ramps built by ARR. Brushy Creek is an ARR trail that was built before ARR was involved but now ARR claims, supports and maintains it with the original builders. I could go on and on with the different trails that ARR has built and maintains.

Anybody that has ridden with me knows what I like to ride. A lot of people walk the best sections I ride. And some people just don't even attempt those trails at all. But I have not been able to ride most of my favorite trails for the last 5 years due to "complications" if I was recognized riding on those trails. For some reason, I am fairly recognizable. Damn I miss riding those. But I gave up my riding because I thought I could make major improvements.

But one point above is spot on. ARR caters to the new rider or the 'new to Austin' rider. Why? because that is what is requested the most. ARR tries to answer to what is requested. Someone who knows all the trails and has their usual riding group don't make requests. Typically, they don't even attend ARR rides or events. They have "moved on". So ARR gets the reputation of a "beginner group". That is not ARR's choice. ARR usually has an advanced or fast group at every ride. ARR tries to provide for every level of rider.

I will get off my soap box now.

Edited December 28, 2018 by cxagent

[Ridenfool]

13 hours ago, endo_ said:

As someone who has actually managed the ARR site for awhile, thank you to the three of you who visited! I really appreciated your support. Managing communication for email, a Facebook site,twitter site,Instagram site, mojo, arr website and a meetup page all for the different needs of the people is painful at best and to be honest not worth it. Consolidating forums had to happen. I suggest if you are adamant that ARR reinstate their site, join the board and take over managing the program. I’m sure Charlie and team would love some new blood and new ideas.

To clarify, my comment wasn't intended to imply the decision was not a good one, I'm only lamenting how more and more of the things I might like to more easily access are only found on Facebook now. I've never had any interest in being somebody's product that they can sell for a profit. That's just me. It wasn't meant as judgement toward ARR's decision. I understand the burden that running multiple sites places on volunteers.

Edited December 28, 2018 by Ridenfool

[AustinBike]

11 hours ago, endo_ said:

As someone who has actually managed the ARR site for awhile, thank you to the three of you who visited! I really appreciated your support. Managing communication for email, a Facebook site,twitter site,Instagram site, mojo, arr website and a meetup page all for the different needs of the people is painful at best and to be honest not worth it. Consolidating forums had to happen. I suggest if you are adamant that ARR reinstate their site, join the board and take over managing the program. I’m sure Charlie and team would love some new blood and new ideas.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, I can tell you as someone who manages a site, I would not want to touch discussion forums. Keeping up with content itself is time consuming. If it wasn't for the healthy salary from the AB world HQ I could not get by. I don't bemoan them going to FB but I do know that I do not use FB much because of their privacy issues (amongst other things) so there is a part of the population that they will not reach. All of it is a balance, and having someone to take on that task is difficult.

[Chardog]

13 hours ago, endo_ said:

As someone who has actually managed the ARR site for awhile, thank you to the three of you who visited! I really appreciated your support. Managing communication for email, a Facebook site,twitter site,Instagram site, mojo, arr website and a meetup page all for the different needs of the people is painful at best and to be honest not worth it. Consolidating forums had to happen. I suggest if you are adamant that ARR reinstate their site, join the board and take over managing the program. I’m sure Charlie and team would love some new blood and new ideas.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

New blood, new ideas and all help appreciated.  btw, we are digging Sunday and most Sundays for the past couple months. We get a great dedicated core of awesome folks, but could definitely use more help:

We are also working on a new trail.  It will be fairly beginner, intermediate level.  There are a lot of beginner/intermediate riders who need places to ride,

 

Edited December 28, 2018 by Chardog

[Chardog]

And yes, we need help with websites, putting on the PBR race and many other things.  The needs are great.  Thanks

[Chardog]

One more very important note.  This applies to everyone.  When we ride, build and maintain trails in very popular public parks, we have the responsibility to share the trails.  A family with a toddler and dog in tow have as much right to enjoy the trail and nature as any of us do and we need to (and most of us do) conduct ourselves accordingly.

Edited December 28, 2018 by Chardog

[crazyt]

12 hours ago, cxagent said:

Consider this to be one person's opinion - NOT the position of ARR as an organization.

ARR builds and maintains trails according to what the land owner / land manager will allow. Add to that the ARR insurance has limits on what can be built or allowed. Since most of the ARR built trails are on public lands and the land manager is required to allow the public at large to use them - they tend to be "less advanced" trails because the land manager is concerned about Mr No Helmet Never Been On A Bike Before He Stopped At Walmart Today. Beginner trails, easy trails and even as I have told lately "wheel chair ramps" are not what ARR wants to build and maintain. But it is what is allowed in some locations by the land managers. So what would you pick - build and maintain trails that are allowed or not build "easy" trails to raise ARR's reputation? ARR has chosen building trails over the ARR reputation. I agree with that.

And the land manager have a good point. Has anyone heard the screaming, bitching and moaning about how "dangerous" the Pace Bend TMBRA race is. My wife calls Pace Bend her favorite trail. "Dangerous" my ass. She is not an aggressive rider. 

Has anybody ridden Lake Georgetown? I know, I know - beginner trail built by ARR. How about RPR? Oh yeah, wheel chair ramps built by ARR. Brushy Creek is an ARR trail that was built before ARR was involved but now ARR claims, supports and maintains it with the original builders. I could go on and on with the different trails that ARR has built and maintains.

Anybody that has ridden with me knows what I like to ride. A lot of people walk the best sections I ride. And some people just don't even attempt those trails at all. But I have not been able to ride most of my favorite trails for the last 5 years due to "complications" if I was recognized riding on those trails. For some reason, I am fairly recognizable. Damn I miss riding those. But I gave up my riding because I thought I could make major improvements.

But one point above is spot on. ARR caters to the new rider or the 'new to Austin' rider. Why? because that is what is requested the most. ARR tries to answer to what is requested. Someone who knows all the trails and has their usual riding group don't make requests. Typically, they don't even attend ARR rides or events. They have "moved on". So ARR gets the reputation of a "beginner group". That is not ARR's choice. ARR usually has an advanced or fast group at every ride. ARR tries to provide for every level of rider.

I will get off my soap box now.

At least on this thread no one has said things like "new riders", "beginners" and "wheelchair ramps". I did say XC which is definitely true and is the main difference between ARR and FR512.