ATXZJ Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Ridenfool said: On the bright side, if it tanks the facility may then be available at a discount in bankruptcy. Which, from casual observation, seems to be a more popular business plan of late. Borrow, build, fail, then the next one can make a success of it. Just like the brewing industry RIP: Big Bend Brewing Edited February 5, 2019 by ATXZJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidingAgain Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Maybe their thought is to keep the "...Yahooing..." riffraff out. Wouldn't be the first time a business has taken this approach. Didn't they just buy the lodge right next to the mountain? How about all-inclusive vacation packages... Stay, ride, enjoy steak dinners at waterfront. And don't worry about rubbing shoulders with the po' folk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidingAgain Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) BTW... Land... Not making any more of it. Edited February 6, 2019 by RidingAgain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biga9999 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Hopefully if their pricing does not work out as they planned, they can adapt quickly. Not encouraging is they state they will think about changing the closing time of 5:00 pm in the summer.  5-8:30 is prime time in Central Texas summers. That is our peak twighlight hours - cheap admission just like a golf course is what is called for.  1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridenfool Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, ATXZJ said: If thats accurate, this place will be posting groupon deals in 6 months. For $50, im cool with going a few times year but their current pass pricing is not worth it.  I lived in NM for 18 mos and probably made 6-8 visits total at the bike parks, and I lived minutes from one of them.  Heres some comparisons: https://www.skiapache.com/summer/mountain-biking/ http://sandiapeak.com/index.php?page=summer-rates-tickets https://www.angelfireresort.com/activities/summer-activities/bike-park/lift-tickets-season-passes/   It looks like they are using the AngelFireResort pricing model (season pass lasts for a run of a specific 38 day span????). In the words of Axel Foley, "I ain't fallin' for no banana in the tailpipe!" Edited February 5, 2019 by Ridenfool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXZJ Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Ridenfool said: It looks like they are using the AngelFireResort pricing model (season pass lasts for a run of a specific 38 day span????). Yes, and crested butte. This park will be no comparison to either. It'd be like paying porsche prices for a VW. Same company but not the same product. Edited February 5, 2019 by ATXZJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddbrider Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 I'm not a surfer, but my reaction to Spider Mtn. pricing is pretty much the same as it was when I saw pricing for NLand Surf Park. Very different activities, obviously, but both places are giving folks the opportunity to do something you would normally have to go elsewhere to do. The fact that NLand is still open means I guess I was wrong to think that their pricing was way too high. Maybe I'll be saying the same thing about Spider in a few years, but I'm with everyone else who is having a hard time understanding the pricing/membership decisions they are making... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bamwa Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) season pass $199 through April 19,    $199 April 19 through June 19,     $199 June 19 through Aug 19,     $199 Aug 19 through Oct 19,    etc. I guess season doesn't mean operating season and there are really 8 instead of 4. jk of course. Edited February 5, 2019 by Bamwa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 10 minutes ago, Bamwa said: season pass $199 through April 19,    $199 April 19 through June 19,     $199 June 19 through Aug 19,     $199 Aug 19 through Oct 19,    etc. I guess season doesn't mean operating season and there are really 8 instead of 4. jk of course. So 100 bux a month. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anita Handle Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Ridenfool said:  Their website pricing of $50 for "Pedal Only Access" that does not include use of the lift is patently absurd.  They're basically saying that if you are going to be using the trails, just pony up for the lift. I'm also surprised that they don't have a lower price for people who are willing to ride to the top. Maybe it's a hedge against eBikes zipping their way up to the top with ease?? ha. Their pricing generally seems a bit in need of massaging but, hey, it's not my business. I'm excited to have it and I'll just have to see how often I take advantage of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridenfool Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 At least for now I can ride Spider Mountain vicariously through others' reports and videos at no cost. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anita Handle Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, Ridenfool said: At least for now I can ride Spider Mountain vicariously through others' reports and videos at no cost. Â Â Do you even Patreon bro? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 44 minutes ago, Anita Handle said: They're basically saying that if you are going to be using the trails, just pony up for the lift. I'm also surprised that they don't have a lower price for people who are willing to ride to the top. Maybe it's a hedge against eBikes zipping their way up to the top with ease?? ha. Their pricing generally seems a bit in need of massaging but, hey, it's not my business. I'm excited to have it and I'll just have to see how often I take advantage of it. You are 100% correct on this. They do not want anyone on the property that does not have a lift ticket, so the way to enforce it and keep people like me away (cheap and like to climb) is to say that it is $50 whether you use a pass or not. And yes, e-bikes are the real threat to a lift system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridenfool Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Anita Handle said: Do you even Patreon bro? I don't Pay for nuthin' I don't have to ... (I'm starting to sound like a cheapskate, aren't I?) Who the hell is treon and why would I pay them? Edited February 6, 2019 by Ridenfool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Gringo Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 3 hours ago, biga9999 said: But I am not their target audience. A day lift ticket makes more sense for me and the amount I will ride out there. I am. But the pricing will keep me from riding there. I'm blessed to be able to work remotely in the summer, so we go to Whistler, usually starting in July. Obviously, we get season passes, which are ~$487 USD. We used to ride Angelfire earlier in the season (and we went there a lot), but when they stopped offering discounts with the FR512 pass, it just became cost prohibitive. For me and my wife, 3 days of riding racks-up $300 - and we're not going to spend $538-$698 for another set of season passes. So we pretty much limit our DH now to Whistler, shuttle runs, and other bike parks we hit along the way. I'd really like to see Spider be a success, but they're following the AF pricing model, which already priced us out (and that was for 2,500 of elevation and we have no problem with the drive). If they did something like open that season pass to cover Spider until May and then extend to Pajarito in the summer, that might work. I do hope they get creative, maybe offer family passes, and leverage their resources.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biga9999 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Replying to a question on Instagram, Spider Mountain indicated after 04/30/19 there would be a year round season pass available. Pricing not disclosed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXZJ Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 5 hours ago, AustinBike said:  And yes, e-bikes are the real threat to a lift system. Are they really? To me, it would seem as the resort is private property and the owners/managers control the trails and access, e-bikes being used to bypass the lifts would not be an issue. At MSA they were only seen in the lodge/pit area shuttling riders ETC. As others have said, it can indeed add up fast. However, if my wife and I can do a three day weekend and ride RPR and SM, then it'll still be cheaper than loading up and heading to NM or colorado. And for the record, f@ck new mexico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridenfool Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 50 minutes ago, ATXZJ said: And for the record, f@ck new mexico Not a Lottaburger Green Chili Cheeseburger fan then? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 16 hours ago, olddbrider said: Â The fact that NLand is still open means I guess I was wrong to think that their pricing was way too high. Â Is NLand still open? Last time I went past it looked like they are no more. Place was locked up flags were down. Looked deserted. Which is odd being they had a brewery/ beer garden that could generate revenue all year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 As far as Spidermountain, with all the ambiguity I think I'm out on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 9 hours ago, ATXZJ said: Are they really? To me, it would seem as the resort is private property and the owners/managers control the trails and access, e-bikes being used to bypass the lifts would not be an issue. At MSA they were only seen in the lodge/pit area shuttling riders ETC. As others have said, it can indeed add up fast. However, if my wife and I can do a three day weekend and ride RPR and SM, then it'll still be cheaper than loading up and heading to NM or colorado. And for the record, f@ck new mexico What I mean by a threat is what you are seeing reflected in the pricing. $50 for lift pass and trail access or $50 for trail access. If they priced it at $50 for lift and $10 for trail (to match RPR) then people with e-bikes could pay the $10, ride everything down and use the battery to take them back up. In essence, they are not able to amortize the cost of the lift as quickly if they allow people to bypass it. They already have a tenuous business model to begin with (lift access in a region without huge elevation and a very high per-usage cost relative to alternatives.) Add in a competitive threat to their lift service and their high fixed (and sunk) cost will give them razor thin margins. When you consider that AF can do bikes in the summer and skis in the winter, they have an almost year-round service. While, theoretically we have year-round seasons as well here, when it is 100F for 12 weeks straight or rains every weekend for 2 months, what happens to that season? Realistically, because Austin is not a "destination" for biking like AF is, people are more likely to skip a ride there because there is nothing compelling them (like a 12-hour drive does for AF). When you are at AF you drove that distance, you will ride every day that you planned to, but if you were going to go to SM this weekend and it rained on Friday you might skip it. I am highly skeptical of their business model and unfortunately, from what I am seeing, they are taking more of an elitist view of the market ("we're the ONLY lift in TX") instead of having an ear to the community. Why are they not being more forthcoming to the market? Why have they not reached out here? Why have they not said more through social media. Bikers are a very talkative bunch. Everyone here is frustrated on the lack of information - that will eventually bite them in the ass because they are not taking the time to cultivate the market they plan to serve. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Txduc Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 20 minutes ago, Chief said: Is NLand still open? Last time I went past it looked like they are no more. Place was locked up flags were down. Looked deserted. Which is odd being they had a brewery/ beer garden that could generate revenue all year. There's a note at the top of their website about being closed for winter. So looks like they're still in business (assuming they reopen) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Gringo Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 NLand was sold to a Kelly Slater's company in December. https://www.tetongravity.com/story/surf/kelly-slater-wave-co.-buys-austins-nland-surf-park. One thing to keep in mind about surfing: I grew up on Sunset Cliffs, right across the street (literally) from the ocean. I could be on my board in the water in <5min. Still, I would've done a surf park if they had one. Surfing in is highly variable. Conditions depend on wind, tides, seasons, storms, etc. You can go sit in the water for an hour without seeing a good wave. When conditions are right, you've got to go then and now. It's not like MTB, where you say trails are G2G, I'll go after work. Surf parks offer the perfect wave (smooth, tubed, with a good break) consistently and on demand. They provide the type of break you either have to wait for that perfect offshore day, or go to Hawaii, to surf. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larlev Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 10 minutes ago, El Gringo said: NLand was sold to a Kelly Slater's company in December. https://www.tetongravity.com/story/surf/kelly-slater-wave-co.-buys-austins-nland-surf-park. One thing to keep in mind about surfing: I grew up on Sunset Cliffs, right across the street (literally) from the ocean. I could be on my board in the water in <5min. Still, I would've done a surf park if they had one. Surfing in is highly variable. Conditions depend on wind, tides, seasons, storms, etc. You can go sit in the water for an hour without seeing a good wave. When conditions are right, you've got to go then and now. It's not like MTB, where you say trails are G2G, I'll go after work. Surf parks offer the perfect wave (smooth, tubed, with a good break) consistently and on demand. They provide the type of break you either have to wait for that perfect offshore day, or go to Hawaii, to surf. I'm from PB, sure do miss those days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridenfool Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 (edited) AB really hit all the high points above. With participation in local MTB forums, and a clear attempt to offer competitive choice in destinations they could easily establish themselves from the get-go. A brilliant step in this direction would be a $10 day use fee and $5 per lift ride policy. Give people the opportunity to pedal to the top, try the trails. Then, if they love them they can get a ride to the top, or not. At least it would encourage riders selecting a destination for a ride as a comparable option, cost-wise. If they were to create a second revenue stream, by adding a Saloon and Grill (maybe have live video of action on the trails), and run this side of the business by opening to the public the way that Rocky Hill Saloon once did. They could easily cultivate a steady customer base from locals and visitors to the area to supplement revenue. Add a small RV and Tent Camping area for more income. Make it a destination for a diverse cross-section of area traffic from lake users, motorcyclists, and locals wanting a burger and a beer. The MTB community could be the focus, but not necessarily the sole source of income. Perhaps not even the primary source of income. Back in the day, RHR had half of its gross generated from beer, food, and camping, and half from day use and event admission. These factors did not play into the demise of the saloon, management factors were the biggest contributor to that perfect combination falling by the wayside. It could have as easily grown and been developed if there had been a plan for growth. As Spider Mountain has been pitched, my guess is they will either change policy, or, will be scratching their heads in a year or so still trying to figure out why the creditors are knocking at the door and traffic to their facility isn't what they expected. They seem to be out of touch with the demographics from my armchair quarterback perspective. It is early yet, and this could change, or there could be aspects yet to be revealed. Some marketing strategies aim high at the beginning to measure response with the full intention of adjusting to the market in order to reach a working balance. The fact is that most new businesses fail. This is because those involved with running things have blue sky expectations and live in denial of factors which should have been given more consideration. They don't plan for contingencies or have a strategy to compensate for when their get-rich dream falters. Without this mindset and attitude of catering to the customers, business owners can run out of options pretty quickly. Not because the options weren't there, merely because they couldn't see them. Spider Mountain is essentially our version of Bentonville's Coler Mountain Bike Preserve, except it is private. The essence is the same, purpose-built flow trails, with the addition of a lift. If Sam Walton's grandkids installed a lift to The Hub at Coler would anyone pay $50 a day to use it? I don't think so. Would someone pedal up twice, then fork out $15 to get three lift rides to the top. I think I might. Edited February 6, 2019 by Ridenfool 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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