The Tip Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 "I couldn't quit smiling." Common reaction. Everyone I've seen test ride an ebike laughs out loud. The ebike weighed 20 pounds more than her bike. 15% of her weight. If she was 20 pounds heavier would she not be able to ride at the same level at 146 on her regular bike? But for me, 20 pounds is less than 10%. Put it into perspective further. In the summer I'll carry four liters of water in my pack. That nine pounds is 5% of my weight. Does it make me ride less efficiently? Maybe a little but it's definitely worth the weight. My point is that this "weight" negativity is negligible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted February 27, 2020 Author Share Posted February 27, 2020 Water on your back is very different than low center of gravity weight. Think about where the real weight of an e-bike is, it's by the bottom bracket. This impacts getting the front wheel up (pivoting) as well as "carrying" that weight over features. Your leverage points are very different with a pack. I'd bet that if you had a 20lb backpack on a regular bike you could ride better than an e-bike. It really showed when she was trying to get up ledges. If that were a self-powered bike (i.e. infinite torque, don't need to pedal, like a moto) she'd have probably cleared everything. Adding additional torque to the bike while simultaneously adding weight while still relying on the rotation of pedals appears to be a big offset in my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 18 minutes ago, AustinBike said: Water on your back is very different than low center of gravity weight. ^^^^ Very true! ^^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 (edited) I'd like to test one and see how it handles stuff like Rim Shot, Stonewall, Bowling League, Cheese Grater, and Slalom. I ride specifically to challenge myself with stuff that is minimally that technical. Otherwise, it sounds boring. Edited February 27, 2020 by mack_turtle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 (edited) 48 minutes ago, The Tip said: My point is that this "weight" negativity is negligible. Strap a 20 pound (or 15% of your body weight) barbell to the bottom of your frame and tell me that it's negligible. going up or down hill, flat, twisty, chunky or smooth trails. Motor or not, that much weight really drags down any bike's handling. Edited February 27, 2020 by mack_turtle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRider3141 Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 On 2/26/2020 at 8:05 AM, mack_turtle said: On that note, I know someone who works for Rad Power Bikes, and they are hiring. Any Engineering positions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 28 minutes ago, RedRider3141 said: Any Engineering positions? What's your specialty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 48 minutes ago, RedRider3141 said: Any Engineering positions? I think they were hiring a salesperson and mobile mechanic, but I have no idea what else they might need right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sluggo Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 I saw the recent c&d had a couple e-bikes show. Throw in the hard sections next week and see how they do. We use skill, strength and power to the ride the technical shit now. E-bikes just change the dynamics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 I would like to hear the e-bike riders speak for themselves. I heard Wes say something about how twisty segments of the trail were much more difficult due to the weight, but the bike was like a rocket when the trail goes straight. something like that. I don't know if he's on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sluggo Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 I don’t own a e-MTB, but I’ve done a couple of rides on one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sluggo Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 (edited) Twisty and technical are different. My trail bike hated the south trails. Edited February 27, 2020 by Sluggo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 43 minutes ago, Sluggo said: Twisty and technical are different. My trail bike hated the south trails. True, my Scalpel loves twisty, and the Bronson loves tech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRider3141 Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 1 hour ago, TheX said: What's your specialty? Mechanical Engineer/ Project Manager, Primarily in commercial Vehicles but that's pretty limited in this town so I've been heavily exploring other industries. A bike industry design/ PM job would be sweet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xl_cheese Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 I killed it at Crank and Drank the other night. No one could hang on the Drip Drop ascent. Then we hit the Davis climb and those Nica kids exploded in my wake! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xl_cheese Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 On a serious note, it was a new experience on a bike. If you can call it that. I get one ride a week to get my exercise in and after the ride Tuesday I felt like I wasted my ride. I wasn't the slightest bit winded. Pedaling the bike was less about pedaling and more of just giving it throttle. The bike has the typical bosch system which has 4 power levels. I used the 2nd lowest setting most of the night which was probably too much in most places. I kicked it up to Turbo only on the zero tech stuff. There were a couple times, like Bambi, I had to pedal hard to keep the pace because the system has a 20mph governor. Any speed above that and you're on your own. I also somehow accidentally hit the power off button on E-spank and had to slog that heavy thing for a while on my own. I didn't want to stop the group just so I could turn the power back on. It was a chore to get through the twisty stuff. Maybe part was getting used to a different handling bike, wide bars, different tires, etc... I was slower in the twisty stuff on this bike compared to my normal bike. Going up technical rock climbs was a breeze. During the ride I felt that the extra momentum you carry with this bike necessitates more robust riding gear. If your toe/foot his a rock or stump while pedaling it's going to be an ouchy. I've heard the argument that someone would want to put their slower significant other on an Ebike so they could keep up easier. Perhaps on the road, but I wouldn't want my wife to ride this bike on a trail. It certainly seems to have a higher potential for injury. It was a fun experience. For me, I'd rather ride my normal bike. I still have this at the shop until the ORbea rep comes to get it so if anyone wants to ride it tomorrow swing by in the morning and grab it! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted February 28, 2020 Author Share Posted February 28, 2020 6 hours ago, xl_cheese said: During the ride I felt that the extra momentum you carry with this bike necessitates more robust riding gear. If your toe/foot his a rock or stump while pedaling it's going to be an ouchy. I've heard the argument that someone would want to put their slower significant other on an Ebike so they could keep up easier. Perhaps on the road, but I wouldn't want my wife to ride this bike on a trail. It certainly seems to have a higher potential for injury. These are 2 very good points that are probably lost on most. Much like other parts of biking, as things grow we start to learn things. This is how female-specific bike designs and pads for downhillers came into being I am guessing. You need a critical mass and enough experience to start sorting these things out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notyal Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 10 hours ago, xl_cheese said: The bike has the typical bosch system which has 4 power levels. I used the 2nd lowest setting most of the night which was probably too much in most places. I kicked it up to Turbo only on the zero tech stuff. This is similar to what she said in the video. I think the Specialized SL line is really smart for this reason. The other eMTBs on the market are too heavy. Cross-over riders from regular MTBs don't even want that much power and would gladly trade it for the weight savings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted February 28, 2020 Author Share Posted February 28, 2020 2 hours ago, notyal said: This is similar to what she said in the video. I think the Specialized SL line is really smart for this reason. The other eMTBs on the market are too heavy. Cross-over riders from regular MTBs don't even want that much power and would gladly trade it for the weight savings. This is a really good point about riders. We gladly pay more money for *slightly* lighter components that give us marginal performance boosts. What if paying a few grand more gave you advantages that were completely offset by weight. Going back to my original premise, for the bulk of the market this is a non-starter. For the few people who can no longer participate, this could be a great product. I just contend that the sliver of the market in that category is small. Pretty sure 95% of us have paid a little more, somewhere, to shave a few grams off our bikes. The Venn diagrams just don't cross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonioGG Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 This is a genuine question for gravity people and e-bike people that use them to go up and ride down at parks. Why not motorcycles instead? Is it a matter of places to ride motorcycles vs more places to ride bicycles? Are the reasons why there are fewer motorcycle parks the reasons why e-bikes may start affecting access to all bikes? I know there are some that do both, or have done motorcycles in the past. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXZJ Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, AntonioGG said: This is a genuine question for gravity people and e-bike people that use them to go up and ride down at parks. Why not motorcycles instead? Is it a matter of places to ride motorcycles vs more places to ride bicycles? Are the reasons why there are fewer motorcycle parks the reasons why e-bikes may start affecting access to all bikes? I know there are some that do both, or have done motorcycles in the past. I like gravity because i hate pedaling. Ill do it as a necessary evil because that's the only option here. If/when we live in a state with open travel again, I might buy a moto for expedition riding and camping etc. An ebike will never be an option for me as I can do way more with $10k, than ride around on a battery powered bicycle. Edited March 1, 2020 by ATXZJ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidingAgain Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 This is not meant to be contentious... So please don't take it as such... But isn't bicycling about peddling? I love going downhill as much as the next person, but I can't say that I've every thought of hating peddling. I kind of just enjoy all aspects of bicycling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXZJ Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 1 hour ago, RidingAgain said: This is not meant to be contentious... So please don't take it as such... But isn't bicycling about peddling? I love going downhill as much as the next person, but I can't say that I've every thought of hating peddling. I kind of just enjoy all aspects of bicycling. But do you enjoy pedaling? Like i said, I don't mind grinding a fireroad to get to the top of a good flow/DH run. I am however, not into some of the anti-flow stuff here. After visiting two shuttle/lift DH parks last month, it's hard to go back to switchback/switchback/switchback/ledge/ledge/switchback/ledge climbs again. An E-bike wont overcome that monotony either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonioGG Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 9 minutes ago, ATXZJ said: But do you enjoy pedaling? I do. I enjoy the challenge of a climb, a tight switch-back, pedaling over a rock garden, up a ledge, etc. I'm getting to the point where I'm enjoying hucks and little jumps and berms and such, and it's a lot of fun, but it's not all there is for me in MTBing. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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