throet Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Ridenfool said: There is much truth in AB's strategy. Overcoming the FSS (false sense of safety) that wearing protective gear can lead to is not something everyone can consistently accomplish. I've never wore pads and likely never will, but don't believe that if I did I would feel any safer. Maybe that argument would hold true with complete body armor, but I have to believe that only a small percentage of MTB injuries would be prevented by knee pads or elbow pads. And I'm not talking about scrapes and bruises, which don't concern me. I've injured shoulder/chest, ribs, toes, fingers, neck, face, and now hamstring while mountain biking. None of these would have been prevented by wearing knee or elbow pads. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridenfool Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, throet said: I've never wore pads and likely never will, but don't believe that if I did I would feel any safer. Maybe that argument would hold true with complete body armor, but I have to believe that only a small percentage of MTB injuries would be prevented by knee pads or elbow pads. And I'm not talking about scrapes and bruises, which don't concern me. I've injured shoulder/chest, ribs, toes, fingers, neck, face, and now hamstring while mountain biking. None of these would have been prevented by wearing knee or elbow pads. I think that is the best point being shared about being mentally aware of how the armor only does so much. Still, some riders may push a little harder when they have armor. Some may not. Some may push the envelope regardless, just because they find that fun and are willing to accept the consequences. Some get injured, others may routinely avoid injury, regardless of whether they have armor. I've occupied each of those pigeon holes at one time or another. The problem isn't about the armor, it is about being aware of how wearing protection may affect our mental processes. This aspect of the human condition is subtle and it can vary in a moment based upon the circumstances and how our ego deals with them. If a person thinks something has given them an edge and they push beyond the limits they will answer for their miscalculation that led to loss of control. Often exceeding the thin margin of protection the armor was able to provide in the process. I used to be good at falling down and getting back up to carry on. Now, after some hard lessons over decades of riding I'm content to take it easy, enjoy the ride, and try to leave my ego at the trailhead to patiently await my return. 😎 Even so, if I'm gonna wear a helmet anyway, is there good reason not wear a full face all the time if it is just another helmet to me? Or, should I wait until I have achieved the purple face at least once before making that choice? It is a conundrum. Edited August 21, 2019 by Ridenfool 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, Ridenfool said: Even so, if I'm gonna wear a helmet anyway, is there good reason not wear a full face all the time if it is just another helmet to me? Or, should I wait until I have achieved the purple face at least once before making that choice? It is a conundrum. My opinion on this would have been different a week ago. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonioGG Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1730348/pdf/v004p00089.pdf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throet Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 55 minutes ago, Ridenfool said: Even so, if I'm gonna wear a helmet anyway, is there good reason not wear a full face all the time if it is just another helmet to me? Or, should I wait until I have achieved the purple face at least once before making that choice? It is a conundrum. I commend this type of thinking and @TheX's decision to go full-face. Like TheX, I am 60 and feel like I may need to make adjustments in order to preserve as much riding time over the next 10-15 years as possible. My problem is that I didn't start riding until 53yrs old and have progressed significantly year-over-year in terms of my riding skills. I feel like I could continue to progress - do bigger drops and bigger jumps, go faster down steep terrain, etc. Being sidelined with a serious injury now though I'm having to rethink these things. Don't be surprised if my new long-travel bike ends up on the Bikes for Sale thread at some point during my recovery (may even throw in my once-used FF helmet). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridenfool Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, AntonioGG said: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1730348/pdf/v004p00089.pdf First off, they got a lot of nerve calling people homeostasises when they haven't even met them. (taking redneck hat off now) That article was quite well done, putting into words the challenging to explain and define dynamics behind these subtleties that affect our decision-making processes. Knowledge is power, and the more we think about what we think about and how we came to hold that perspective the better any person can be at avoiding setting themselves up for a fall. Literally, in the MTB sense. To some degree adages like "Familiarity breeds contempt" and "You can't teach an old dog new tricks" come immediately to mind, along with the wisdom quietly hidden behind these sayings once they have been pondered upon into the depths they can reveal in ourselves when given the opportunity. Thanks for the link! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRider3141 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I grew up riding dirt bikes and slowly accumulated all of the Armor and rode with it every time. Each piece saved countless scrapes, bruises, punctures, fractures, etc. Full Face Helmet w/ goggles Neck Roll Chest/Back protector Ballistic Nylon Jacket w/ various pads including Elbow/Forearm (wore when temps were below 70) Knee Pads MX boots Kevlar pants (exhaust protection) I even had a friend who rode with a activity specific cup after an ill fated incident with a gas tank collision... I feel naked riding my MTB with only gloves and a helmet and occasionally knee pads. I did have a full face MTB helmet (Giro Remedy) which I smashed on a bad landing off a drop. It saved my pretty face from the hardpack and back of my head from my seat impact. My other helmet was a basic Costco special with minimal protection so I am glad to have worn it. I've since compromised and don't try to ride aggressively, just enough to get from A-B and get a workout. I also ride with a TLD A-1 which, for me, is a much more modern helmet with better protection, though not as good as a full face. The detachable chin guard helmets were still expensive last time I went helmet shopping but I will definitely look at them again next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonioGG Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, throet said: I commend this type of thinking and @TheX's decision to go full-face. Like TheX, I am 60 and feel like I may need to make adjustments in order to preserve as much riding time over the next 10-15 years as possible. My problem is that I didn't start riding until 53yrs old and have progressed significantly year-over-year in terms of my riding skills. I feel like I could continue to progress - do bigger drops and bigger jumps, go faster down steep terrain, etc. Being sidelined with a serious injury now though I'm having to rethink these things. Don't be surprised if my new long-travel bike ends up on the Bikes for Sale thread at some point during my recovery (may even throw in my once-used FF helmet). My biggest decision-making as far as de-risk has to do with how essential I am to my family and my job. I do want to learn how to do some of those drops, etc. But I'm totally OK not doing that. I get my thrill doing the endurance XC long rides and training for them. I'll ask for an update in the injury thread. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 4 hours ago, throet said: I've never wore pads and likely never will, but don't believe that if I did I would feel any safer. Maybe that argument would hold true with complete body armor, but I have to believe that only a small percentage of MTB injuries would be prevented by knee pads or elbow pads. And I'm not talking about scrapes and bruises, which don't concern me. I've injured shoulder/chest, ribs, toes, fingers, neck, face, and now hamstring while mountain biking. None of these would have been prevented by wearing knee or elbow pads. Next time you go for a ride try this. Shoes, helmet and a swimsuit. Nothing else. Let me know how much safer you ride 😉 I can tell you that I am more aggressive in the colder weather with layers and long sleeves relative to hotter weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throet Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, AustinBike said: Next time you go for a ride try this. Shoes, helmet and a swimsuit. Nothing else. Well that's certainly one way to have the trail all to myself! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridenfool Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, throet said: Well that's certainly one way to have the trail all to myself! Makes me recall the thong rider in SA that was on Mojo. He rode everywhere, to work, or trail, wearing only a thong. I'm happy to have never had to witness that first-hand and still wish nobody had posted pics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinBike Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Ridenfool said: Makes me recall the thong rider in SA that was on Mojo. He rode everywhere, to work, or trail, wearing only a thong. I'm happy to have never had to witness that first-hand and still wish nobody had posted pics. I have ridden behind him (and drank night train at his house before a ride...in the morning.) Not as bad as the 2 thong guys in Austin (north and south). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridenfool Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, AustinBike said: I have ridden behind him (and drank night train at his house before a ride...in the morning.) Not as bad as the 2 thong guys in Austin (north and south). I guess that means Night Train can be utilized as eye/mind bleach. A useful all around solvent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 22 hours ago, AustinBike said: Not as bad as the 2 thong guys in Austin (north and south). Where did they wear the second thong? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridenfool Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 14 minutes ago, Barry said: Where did they wear the second thong? Be careful to avoid asking questions you may not want to know the answer to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted August 22, 2019 Author Share Posted August 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Ridenfool said: Be careful to avoid asking questions you may not want to know the answer to. ^^^^ This ^^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4fun Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 On 8/21/2019 at 6:08 AM, AustinBike said: I have another angle on this. I don't own pads, I don't wear pads (that may change one day, especially for a place like Bentonville.) My reasoning is pretty simple. In my mind, having pads will encourage me to take more risks. I believe I am more likely to crash with pads on because I am doing something that is outside of my comfort zone. There are those that argue that to have fun you need to always be outside of your comfort zone and always need to be pushing for more. I disagree with this position. I have a ton of fun riding at my skill level and I do push myself, but I take smart risks, not stupid risks. I believe pads would encourage stupid risks so I stay clear, for now. In my case when I pad up/FF up I am typically super focused and rarely wreck! My worse wrecks seem to be when I lose focus on a relatively easy section and so now I almost always wear my g-form knee pads for every ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notyal Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 In my experience, a camera is the most dangerous piece of equipment you can wear. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack_turtle Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 On 8/21/2019 at 1:59 PM, Ridenfool said: Makes me recall the thong rider in SA that was on Mojo. He rode everywhere, to work, or trail, wearing only a thong. I'm happy to have never had to witness that first-hand and still wish nobody had posted pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted August 24, 2019 Author Share Posted August 24, 2019 Back to Walnut at 7 tomorrow morning, with a bright red FF helmet. If you see me, say hello! X or Randy, either works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridenfool Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 12 hours ago, TheX said: Back to Walnut at 7 tomorrow morning, with a bright red FF helmet. If you see me, say hello! X or Randy, either works. Did you get the Colorado color, High-biscuits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted August 24, 2019 Author Share Posted August 24, 2019 Great ride, temps in the '70s. I have spent so many hours wearing full face motorcycle helmets that the Bell feels like nothing. I can see where it would be a BIG change for someone that has never worn one at all. I did kind of feel like I was wearing a neon sign that said "look at me" but I got over that really quickly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4fun Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 26 minutes ago, TheX said: Great ride, temps in the '70s. I have spent so many hours wearing full face motorcycle helmets that the Bell feels like nothing. I can see where it would be a BIG change for someone that has never worn one at all. I did kind of feel like I was wearing a neon sign that said "look at me" but I got over that really quickly. That’s awesome, I have the 3r also and will wear it full face during cedar season when I wear goggles to protect my eyes. I have noticed that even though I don’t change my riding style and feel like I’m a very courteous trail user people are more easily offended when I’m full face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morris Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 On 8/21/2019 at 11:03 AM, throet said: I commend this type of thinking and @TheX's decision to go full-face. Like TheX, I am 60 and feel like I may need to make adjustments in order to preserve as much riding time over the next 10-15 years as possible. My problem is that I didn't start riding until 53yrs old and have progressed significantly year-over-year in terms of my riding skills. I feel like I could continue to progress - do bigger drops and bigger jumps, go faster down steep terrain, etc. Being sidelined with a serious injury now though I'm having to rethink these things. Don't be surprised if my new long-travel bike ends up on the Bikes for Sale thread at some point during my recovery (may even throw in my once-used FF helmet). Don't like to hear this, I know you have the skill already to do all the drops at brushy and I know you would love it. Waiting for you to recover. I have morning riding time again 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tip Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 (edited) On 8/21/2019 at 9:48 AM, Ridenfool said: Even so, if I'm gonna wear a helmet anyway, is there good reason not wear a full face all the time if it is just another helmet to me? Or, should I wait until I have achieved the purple face at least once before making that choice? It is a conundrum. I will share a story that I am telling to help you decide. I played intramural hockey in college. I played for awhile and couldn't decide whether to wear a mouth guard or not. After catching a puck in my teeth that required stitches inside my lip and cracked my tooth, I decided, "yup, I should get a mouth guard." So while I'm at the store getting it I look at helmets trying to decide to get one or not. This was back in history when not many people wore helmets. Hard to imagine, right? But I decided, "naw, don't need it." About three games later, WHAM! I went down hard, on my head of course. I got a helmet after that! So the moral might be to not be as adept at closing that barn door after the cows are gone as I was. Because you will really feel dumb if indeed you do crash now and that full face could have helped. Edited August 25, 2019 by The Tip 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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