COVID-19...Preparation, or hysteria?

[RidingAgain]

What's really going on media?

As usual... Check out the comments below the video for some more insight.
 

 

Edited April 5, 2020 by RidingAgain

[mack_turtle]

people around the country are gathering at state capitols, including Texas, to protest shutdowns or whatever.

gathering to protest... let that sink in. I could not have made up just how profoundly stupid this is. Have you guys seen Avenue 5? Idiocracy? we're collectively even dumber than our worst nightmares.

[Chief]

[mack_turtle]

I wonder how many of these rallies Trump will attend, now that he's invoked the Second Amendment and encouraged insurrections.

[Chief]

1 hour ago, mack_turtle said:

I wonder how many of these rallies Trump will attend, now that he's invoked the Second Amendment and encouraged insurrections.

Don't know how true it is but I had heard he doesn't meet with anyone unless they've been tested. I guess we know where all the test kits went.

[ATXZJ]

21 hours ago, mack_turtle said:

people around the country are gathering at state capitols, including Texas, to protest shutdowns or whatever.

gathering to protest... let that sink in. I could not have made up just how profoundly stupid this is. Have you guys seen Avenue 5? Idiocracy? we're collectively even dumber than our worst nightmares.

The dumbf@ck leading the rally here today is involved with Infowars. If the police enforce social distancing regulations, they'll scream new world order feeding right into their stupid publicity stunt. What f@ckers 

[notyal]

Climate change is like the slow-mo version of COVID. 

"The virus will miraculously go away in April."

"The climate is always changing. Who's to say human actions are accelerating it?"

Wait, then why is it that every single credible scientist and expert on the subject says otherwise??

[Barry]

Saw this in one of my whisky groups. It's just glorious. 

[ATXZJ]

NSFW and is awesome

 

[Chief]

Interesting article.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/us/coronavirus-first-united-states-death.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_NN_p_20200422&instance_id=17849&nl=morning-briefing&regi_id=120388226&section=topNews&segment_id=25713&te=1&user_id=6a47e45ea5e562b13735582d9e31d8c6

[mack_turtle]

When I was in 6th grade, my history teacher made us a promise to get our quiz scores up: if everyone got a 100% on the next quiz, she would buy a king size Snickers bar for each student. The quiz was a "matching" format where you have to match the numbered question with the lettered answer. She arranged the answers so that it was totally idiot-proof: 1=a, 2=b, 3=c. I think there were 12 questions.

Once you answered the first few questions, it was obvious how it worked and it was nearly impossible to get any of them wrong. I checked my work to make sure it was not a trick and every question followed the pattern. Everyone got a 100% except for ONE student, so no one got a candy bar. I think I know who that student was and he was indeed an idiot. (No, it was not me.)

There's a metaphor in there somewhere that relates to the current state of this country.

Edited April 23, 2020 by mack_turtle

[ATXZJ]

^ You're post reminds me of this from jim jefferies.

 

*NSFW and contains naughty thoughts*

 

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by ATXZJ

[The Tip]

I've come to realize that this debate, "Stay closed for health's sake vs take a chance and open for the economy's sake" is about as likely to be resolved as the pro-life vs pro choice debates. 

Three men of different religions were asked the important question, "When does life begin?"

Catholic guy says, "Life begins at conception."

Protestant guy says, "Life begins at birth."

Jewish guy says, "Life begins when the kids finally move out of the house."

[ATXZJ]

1 hour ago, The Tip said:

 

Jewish guy says, "Life begins when the kids finally move out of the house."

im with the hebrews on this one. 

[The Tip]

[JMR]

10 hours ago, mack_turtle said:

When I was in 6th grade, my history teacher made us a promise to get our quiz scores up: if everyone got a 100% on the next quiz, she would buy a king size Snickers bar for each student. The quiz was a "matching" format where you have to match the numbered question with the lettered answer. She arranged the answers so that it was totally idiot-proof: 1=a, 2=b, 3=c. I think there were 12 questions.

Once you answered the first few questions, it was obvious how it worked and it was nearly impossible to get any of them wrong. I checked my work to make sure it was not a trick and every question followed the pattern. Everyone got a 100% except for ONE student, so no one got a candy bar. I think I know who that student was and he was indeed an idiot. (No, it was not me.)

There's a metaphor in there somewhere that relates to the current state of this country.

I couldn’t agree with you more! I think it’s ridiculous that everyone should suffer because of one persons decision. It makes no sense to me that the economy shut down because of a few people. Why should I not go to work because someone has the ‘rona? I saw a video yesterday where they were discussing how they got the mortality rate wrong. Seems like everyone overreacted! Seems like I knew it all along. Tin foil hat on!

[Sluggo]

I’m going to wait a couple weeks to see who’s right. 

[AustinBike]

The argument about "we need to reopen the economy" is soooooo selfish.

It's all about "I want to be able to get a haircut" and not as much about "I want to go back to my job."

What happens when the states lift the bans and businesses are not willing to take the risk to reopen? Governors can't force people back to work. Georgia is going to be an interesting case study on this. Spoiler alert: it's gonna be bad. 

The Georgia daily infection rate does not look like a stable situation that merits reopening the state:

 

One can argue (appropriately) that this is a function of uneven testing and possibly bad data models. But that begs the real question - in light of uneven testing and bad data models, would you ever decide to lift restrictions?

Interesting that after trump made so much noise about "we need to reopen" he very quickly backtracked when Georgia said "here, hold my beer."

 

[The Tip]

The debate always seems to center on "look how many lives we are saving." This statement is wrong though. It really needs to state, "Look how many lives we are saving FROM COVID Virus."

I say that to put that number in play. Now, compare that number to lives being lost due to the shut down. And there are many.

Heart disease kills 850,000 a year. Stress causes heart problems. Because of the shut down could deaths increase by 10%? 85,000.
Suicide claims about 50,000 a year. Could that double to 50,000 more because of all this?
Alcohol related deaths (not driving) are 90,000 a year. 20% increase possible? 

Saw on the news last night that people are putting off non-emergency medical care. The story was focused on cancer screening. The doctor was saying this was a bad situation that was going to cost lives because people will be too far along to be saved. How many other important health issues are not being addressed?
 
Could we actually lose more people to shut down related causes than to the COVID virus?

Sweden is still functioning. Yes, their COVID rates are higher, but not dramatically so. That herd immunity concept might be working.
I don't think history will look kindly on this shut down solution. Not to say it hasn't help prevent the spread of flu illness and more flu deaths. That fact cannot be argued. But at what cost?

Get things going. But wear masks. Wash hands. Have hospital capacity adequate. Accept that people get sick and sometimes die. Sad but true.

Edited April 24, 2020 by The Tip

[AustinBike]

20 minutes ago, The Tip said:

The debate always seems to center on "look how many lives we are saving." This statement is wrong though. It really needs to state, "Look how many lives we are saving FROM COVID Virus."

I say that to put that number in play. Now, compare that number to lives being lost due to the shut down. And there are many.

Heart disease kills 850,000 a year. Stress causes heart problems. Because of the shut down could deaths increase by 10%? 85,000.
Suicide claims about 50,000 a year. Could that double to 50,000 more because of all this?
Alcohol related deaths (not driving) are 90,000 a year. 20% increase possible? 

Saw on the news last night that people are putting off non-emergency medical care. The story was focused on cancer screening. The doctor was saying this was a bad situation that was going to cost lives because people will be too far along to be saved. How many other important health issues are not being addressed?
 
Could we actually lose more people to shut down related causes than to the COVID virus?

Sweden is still functioning. Yes, their COVID rates are higher, but not dramatically so. That herd immunity concept might be working.
I don't think history will look kindly on this shut down solution. Not to say it hasn't help prevent the spread of flu illness and more flu deaths. That fact cannot be argued. But at what cost?

Get things going. But wear masks. Wash hands. Have hospital capacity adequate. Accept that people get sick and sometimes die. Sad but true.

None of those things are communicable. 

Put it in terms of Ebola. If this were ebola and there was ~25% death rate and no possible cure, what would you do? 

Let me put your statement in the proper context:

 

Sweden?

Sweden has 17,000 infections and 2,100 deaths.

Their neighbor Norway is about the same size 7,400 infections and <200 deaths.

Finland, their other neighbor has ~4,400 infection and <200 deaths.

So, they are brought TEN TIMES higher in deaths than their neighbors. Please, go on about this herd immunity thing, it sounds really interesting.

 

[ATXZJ]

Bottom line, the public is just too f#cking stupid to act responsibly on their own and you have to shut everything down. You don't need to look any farther than the states that didn't, and the spike in infections that resulted. No further effort required than to just venture outside to gain a quick assessment of your fellow citizens intelligence. 

TBH, at this point the virus doesn't scare me as much as it did initially. Not because I doubt it's lethality, but that we've been able to shelter in place for 6 weeks, pay our bills, not go insane or get sick. We also tuned out a lot of the news and 24/7 discussion of coronageddon. We are extremely grateful to have this luxury compared to what others are dealing with right now. 

However, all that could instantly change with a full blown economic depression where the money dries up. At this point I think our biggest anxiety lies in economic uncertainty and what the state of civil liberties will look like a year from now. Fall down that rabbit hole and things can get scary real fast. 

Our dogshit political leaders don't care whether we can pay our bills, have food, shelter or access to treatment. This pandemic has exposed their true colors, and that is the color of whore.

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by ATXZJ

[The Tip]

"None of those things are communicable. "

You missed the point of my post entirely.

Even quoting Sweden's COVID STATISTICS vs their neighbor's misses the point of my post. How many in Sweden are NOT dying from the shut down related things I listed?

The point is that the big picture needs to be taken into consideration. This is not just about preventing the virus spreading versus people's economic needs. A big consideration of course. But that is an apple's to oranges thing in a way. Much harder to debate as opinions vary. I am trying to compare apples to apples. That being deaths. Deaths by virus or deaths by other shut down related reasons. 

Edited to say after reading ATXZJ's post, I have discovered that people's opinion on the shut down varies in correlation with their financial situation. Those receiving regular paychecks seem to favor continued shut down. Those that haven't a clue how they are going to pay for groceries are much more willing to take a chance on opening things up. Funny how that works!

Edited April 24, 2020 by The Tip

[JMR]

35 minutes ago, The Tip said:

"None of those things are communicable. "

You missed the point of my post entirely.

Even quoting Sweden's COVID STATISTICS vs their neighbor's misses the point of my post. How many in Sweden are NOT dying from the shut down related things I listed?

The point is that the big picture needs to be taken into consideration. This is not just about preventing the virus spreading versus people's economic needs. A big consideration of course. But that is an apple's to oranges thing in a way. Much harder to debate as opinions vary. I am trying to compare apples to apples. That being deaths. Deaths by virus or deaths by other shut down related reasons. 

Edited to say after reading ATXZJ's post, I have discovered that people's opinion on the shut down varies in correlation with their financial situation. Those receiving regular paychecks seem to favor continued shut down. Those that haven't a clue how they are going to pay for groceries are much more willing to take a chance on opening things up. Funny how that works!

I have received a regular paycheck and I don’t favor staying shutdown. This is what makes me wonder what the deal really is. Walmart is packed with people. So is HEB. Seeing videos of nurses dancing in the hallways of their hospitals while they are “overrun with patients”? Seems like people are ready to get back to work because the news doesn’t reflect what we actually see in our communities. Scare tactics 101?

[AustinBike]

There are no numbers that you can point to that show success in Sweden. Even Sweden is questioning their path. I’ve been there and it is not like the US in any way. 
 

I disagree with your statement about opening things being tied to paychecks, it is tied to how willing you are to have other people die. Some of us are willing to stay inside so that our other neighbors have a better chance. 

[RidingAgain]

"...Edited to say after reading ATXZJ's post, I have discovered that people's opinion on the shut down varies in correlation with their financial situation. Those receiving regular paychecks seem to favor continued shut down. Those that haven't a clue how they are going to pay for groceries are much more willing to take a chance on opening things up. Funny how that works!"

This is just normal human nature... Risk versus reward... Self preservation.

And it's why community is pretty much impossible for human society.

Which is why it comes down to the one carrying the biggest stick.