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mack_turtle

riding style- old vs new

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Posted (edited)

This was eye-opening for me. it makes a lot more sense than the typical marketing copy I see. most say things like "get a bike with the handlebar stretched out ten feet in front of you and the BB dragging on the ground and you can shred everything!" they often leave a caveat that you have to "adjust your riding position" or something similar, but I have never had anyone really break down what that means. NOW it makes some sense to me. I'ld like to see more of this.

I am definitely stuck in the "old school" attitude. I rode a long, low bike for over a year and it made me start to hate mountain biking. I could not adjust and everything was terrifying and out of control, no matter what I did. I just felt like I was lost, swimming inside the bike with zero control over it. all of my riding technique came from riding BMX, though.

I see a lot of people around Austin riding "old" style bikes and killing it, but this video makes a compelling case for making the transition.

Edited by mack_turtle
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, mack_turtle said:

This was eye-opening for me. I hope there's a lot more of this kind of material in the future. it makes a lot more sense than the typical marketing copy I see. most say things like "get a bike with the handlebar stretched out ten feet in front of you and the BB dragging on the ground and you can shred everything!" they often leave a caveat that you have to "adjust your riding position" or something similar, but I have never had anyone really break down what that means. NOW it makes some sense to me. I'ld like to see more of this.

I am definitely stuck in the "old school" attitude. I rode a long, low bike for over a year and it made me start to hate mountain biking. I could not adjust and everything was terrifying and out of control, no matter what I did. I just felt like I was lost, swimming inside the bike with zero control over it. all of my riding technique came from riding BMX, though.

I see a lot of people around Austin riding "old" style bikes and killing it, but this video makes a compelling case for making the transition.

Interesting. Personally I find the middle ground to be most comfortable for me. On a size L, 453mm reach is what I have on my Primer with 67.5, degree HTA, all of which seems fine for "newer school riding". Honestly the only time I rode old school was as a beginner when I didn't understand being balanced on the bike. I may be making some adjustments when I get on one of my old school bikes now, but if I do, they are certainly more subtle than what's being shown in the video. 

Edited by throet

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I THINK my technique is holding me back, but I don't know that for certain. I'll need to make a video or pay/ take a favor of someone to actually analyze my riding style to see what I am doing right and wrong. It's not a big enough deal that I am going to buy a dozen different bikes (no one brings hardtails to demos), and I am not even racing. I just want to have fun conquering difficult terrain instead of stalling on climbs and white-knuckling descents.

 

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Posted (edited)

Your form looks fine. You're not too far forward or backwards, and are fluid enough to react if something goes wrong.

The drop techniques demonstrated in the 1st video seem a bit extreme on both sides. He's super stiff in both examples, and to me somewhere there's a middle ground between butt dragging and doing pushups. To each his own. 

The biggest mistake is getting too stiff on the bike, and that applies to drops, corners, climbs, slow and high speeds. I was, and can still be guilty of it when I get in a little too deep with too much speed. 

Started on "old school" 2012 tallboy and developed some bad habits, particularly cornering. Had a pretty severe washout at high speed in NM that had me concussed and seeing spots because of it. Had to relearn my technique once I started riding the LLS kona stuff. 

Edited by ATXZJ
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So, I'm no guru and I have crappy style, so don't take my word for it, but take a look at this frame:

597334440_ScreenShot2020-03-27at12_40_45PM.thumb.png.cabdd7fd95d14085cd7b8fb7a3abd47e.png

Looks like you are right over your stem and bottom bracket. Can't be 100% of the back wheel but it looks like it *could* be off the ground. This tells me you are too far forward. Do you have a dropper? Even though that drop does not really need one, it could help you get further back so that your butt is more over your axle than bottom bracket.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, AustinBike said:

So, I'm no guru and I have crappy style, so don't take my word for it, but take a look at this frame:

Looks like you are right over your stem and bottom bracket. Can't be 100% of the back wheel but it looks like it *could* be off the ground. This tells me you are too far forward. Do you have a dropper? Even though that drop does not really need one, it could help you get further back so that your butt is more over your axle than bottom bracket.

that's with the saddle dropped a full 150mm. I could be momentarily airborne for a second there as I bounced off the last rock at the bottom. I've ridden that drop with a rigid seatpost and a rigid fork, so it's not the most challenging thing out there. this is the only example I had of myself taking a drop, so it might be a bad one.

If you watch more of those Hardtail Party videos, he intentionally takes groups to technical trails and sessions features until everyone either cleans them or gives up after several attempts. This is how I usually ride solo, but with groups, stopping to session anything is rare—it's all just "go, go, go, walk that segment, go around that, oh look I got a PR!" that's why I sometimes bring a small tripod for my phone to film myself. I have deleted many 20 minute+ long videos of myself trying the same up-ledge over and over. I rarely learn anything from these because I don't know what I am looking for. I would be all for some more "session" rides like this so riders could critique one another. we certainly have an abundance of technical features all over for this.

Edited by mack_turtle
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Maybe it's for demonstrative purposes, but it looks to me like dude is exaggerating each style. Especially the new style. 

image.png.cde387464b8bfeaf860cf99b5cf8edff.png

 

Even with a very modern geo bike, I try to stay back from the BB a little, but not so much that my arms lock. And I'll roll basically anything. One example was the 2018 Big Bend fest, the "remember where you are" stair steps on the Rincon and Epic Loops where I was the only one on the advanced rides that did it, while some dude was standing at the bottom yelling at me to be carefull. 

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21 minutes ago, Barry said:

Maybe it's for demonstrative purposes, but it looks to me like dude is exaggerating each style. Especially the new style. 

image.png.cde387464b8bfeaf860cf99b5cf8edff.png

 

Even with a very modern geo bike, I try to stay back from the BB a little, but not so much that my arms lock. And I'll roll basically anything. One example was the 2018 Big Bend fest, the "remember where you are" stair steps on the Rincon and Epic Loops where I was the only one on the advanced rides that did it, while some dude was standing at the bottom yelling at me to be carefull. 

yes and yes.

 

heels down and weight the BB, giving the lowest COG you can achieve. the picture on the right is almost comical.

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Posted (edited)

Yeh, I was thinking things weren't exactly as he was saying they were... He definitely more forward, but not to the point where his chest is over the handlebars.

 

Screen Shot 2020-03-27 at 1.19.13 PM.png

Screen Shot 2020-03-27 at 1.19.30 PM.png

Screen Shot 2020-03-27 at 1.19.41 PM.png

Screen Shot 2020-03-27 at 1.19.51 PM.png

Edited by RidingAgain

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, ATXZJ said:

yes and yes.

 

heels down and weight the BB, giving the lowest COG you can achieve. the picture on the right is almost comical.

Yeh... That's what he seems to be after (but not quite getting)... Achieving a low COG instead of weighting the rear wheel as in old days.

Edited by RidingAgain
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35 minutes ago, mack_turtle said:

that's with the saddle dropped a full 150mm. I could be momentarily airborne for a second there as I bounced off the last rock at the bottom. I've ridden that drop with a rigid seatpost and a rigid fork, so it's not the most challenging thing out there. this is the only example I had of myself taking a drop, so it might be a bad one.

If you watch more of those Hardtail Party videos, he intentionally takes groups to technical trails and sessions features until everyone either cleans them or gives up after several attempts. This is how I usually ride solo, but with groups, stopping to session anything is rare—it's all just "go, go, go, walk that segment, go around that, PR!. that's why I sometimes bring a small tripod for my phone to film myself. I have deleted many 20 minute+ long videos of myself trying the same up-ledge over and over. I rarely learn anything from these because I don't know what I am looking for. I would be all for some more "session" rides like this so riders could critique one another. we certainly have an abundance of technical features all over for this.

The new vs. old riding style is only made possible by the advancement of the dropper post. I'd argue this was more influential than geo, although you can't really separate them as it has been a total evolution. The old school get behind the saddle and buzz your butt was the only style because there was a seat right in the way. I bet you could put a dropper on an old school bike and ride it with more modern techniques to a pretty good benefit.

We used to have session-y rides out at City Park pretty often back in the days when ride calls actually happened on Mojo. Those were fun.

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Posted (edited)

I haven't looked at he link yet, but as soon as droppers became a must-have for me, I started wanting the steepest possible STA. 

Edited by Barry

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Cant mention old drops without Bender (1:45 for Jah drop)

 

or Dave Watson

 

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Really old school landing:
 
image.thumb.png.8986afc6c65f640558df4dec4bc6ad2f.png
From:
 

That video is great. Awesome riding in the early days. Two things, though. MTBing looks way more fun now than it was then, and I’m really glad that we don’t tuck white T-shirts into spandex anymore.
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42 minutes ago, AntonioGG said:

Really old school landing:

 

image.thumb.png.8986afc6c65f640558df4dec4bc6ad2f.png

From:

 

Toe clips!  I told a buddy the other day gravel tires are the same size as old school mtb tires and from this video, I think my memory was correct.

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56 minutes ago, notyal said:

, and I’m really glad that we don’t tuck white T-shirts into spandex anymore.

Speak for your self Ralph Lauren!

 

Okay, actually I have to admit I don't tuck my shirts in.

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Speak for your self Ralph Lauren!
 
Okay, actually I have to admit I don't tuck my shirts in.

I do have the same fanny pack as that first guy.

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11 hours ago, notyal said:


I do have the same fanny pack as that first guy.

I had an Eddie Bauer Fanny pack and a red cloth covered helmet (remember those?!).  I rode with spandex shorts and a white tee but I’m pretty sure I didn’t tuck the shirt in.

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On 3/27/2020 at 12:51 PM, mack_turtle said:

that's with the saddle dropped a full 150mm. I could be momentarily airborne for a second there as I bounced off the last rock at the bottom. I've ridden that drop with a rigid seatpost and a rigid fork, so it's not the most challenging thing out there. this is the only example I had of myself taking a drop, so it might be a bad one.

If you watch more of those Hardtail Party videos, he intentionally takes groups to technical trails and sessions features until everyone either cleans them or gives up after several attempts. This is how I usually ride solo, but with groups, stopping to session anything is rare—it's all just "go, go, go, walk that segment, go around that, oh look I got a PR!" that's why I sometimes bring a small tripod for my phone to film myself. I have deleted many 20 minute+ long videos of myself trying the same up-ledge over and over. I rarely learn anything from these because I don't know what I am looking for. I would be all for some more "session" rides like this so riders could critique one another. we certainly have an abundance of technical features all over for this.

I'm actually a big fan of "nemesis" rides. Me and Ben used to explore the greenbelt every weekend looking for stuff to session. You have to come up to brushy when the pandemic is over.

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On 3/27/2020 at 1:25 PM, RidingAgain said:

Yeh... That's what he seems to be after (but not quite getting)... Achieving a low COG instead of weighting the rear wheel as in old days.

We went to the bike fest in Sedona.  Most of the riding was way beyond my skills, but we did a ride led by a famous pro racer (can't remember his name).  There were various skill levels on this ride and almost all the riding is big ledgy drops followed by a punchy climb up an eroding fall line trail out of a wash, some mellow single track, repeat repeat repeat.  One thing this guy noted was, if you're not adept at pulling up your front wheel, just roll the ledge.  BUT, get low over the center of the bike, and then get lower, and get low some more, exactly like this. 

On 3/27/2020 at 1:23 PM, RidingAgain said:

Screen Shot 2020-03-27 at 1.19.30 PM.png

Still low and centered: 

On 3/27/2020 at 1:23 PM, RidingAgain said:

Screen Shot 2020-03-27 at 1.19.51 PM.png

 

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