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South Austin Trail Network, The SATN

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Signs at hiking only trails aren’t always particularly helpful. I’m having trouble attaching pictures at the moment, but there is a sign to an entrance to a hiking trail on the map that lists prohibited activities as:

No glass, no pets, no motorized vehicles, no alcohol, with another half-arsed no hunting sign stuck on the bottom.

I think most people would assume cycling was allowed on that trail based on the sign. 

I’ll try to attach a picture later.

 

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9 minutes ago, Charlie193 said:

I’m having trouble attaching pictures at the moment

You should just be able to drag images straight into the post editor.  If that's not working for you, or is clicking the "choose files..." link, please send me a message and I can help you out further.

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I think there are trails that are problematic, but if I could only ride on trails that are officially sanctioned by PARD, I would be moving the f outta here as soon as possible.

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Here’s the picture of the sign at a hiking only trail entrance. Doesn’t seem clear to me.

If the City are going to start enforcing the rules as far as who is using the trails, I’d be curious to know if they intend to be as stringent with dog walkers (personally I don’t care at all if people walk their dogs in this particular park), as I see a bunch of dog walkers anytime I’m there (walking with my kids, of course) and very rarely any mountain bikers.

47DF62E6-758F-431F-AAD4-5CCB512CD0A5.jpeg

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On 4/13/2019 at 8:56 PM, Tree Magnet said:

This link isn't working for me but I'm very interested in making sure I'm not pushing the wrong buttons out on SATN. 

Go to the web site shown in the attached picture. The URL is shown. Or search for "City of Austin Park Directory" - that is how I get to it. Click on the place the red arrow is pointing. That should take you to the PARD Interactive Map.

If that does not work - you need more computer help than I can provide.

PARD Map.jpg

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, RidingAgain said:



Nothing that I saw on the map tells us what trails mountain bikes can use in SW Austin. The closest reference is "...mixed use...".

Am I missing something?

Good catch RidingAgain and Charlie193.

How interesting. It used to show the use restriction in the dialog box that opened when I clicked on a trail. That no longer works. And I no longer see anywhere that horses are not allowed. I wonder if that means that horses are now allowed everywhere EXCEPT hiking only trails. Somehow, I doubt that is what was intended. PARD recognizes horses are as damaging as motorcycles.

As Charlie193 shows in the picture - I would NOT interpret that sign to mean MTB is not allowed. If anything, that sign makes me think MTB *IS* allowed.

In the picture attached is the PARD Map with the Legend open and the "Hiking Only" pointed out by the big read arrow.

PARD Map Legend.jpg

Edited by cxagent
Added pictures

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HMMMM

The changes to the PARD Map and the lack of real signage make me want to take back what I said on page 9 of this thread.

Instead of warning MTB'rs of what I fear is coming, I will wait until there is a problem and then tell PARD it is a problem of their own creation. They can't throw people off trails or prosecute people for doing what they appear to say is allowed.

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43 minutes ago, cxagent said:

HMMMM

The changes to the PARD Map and the lack of real signage make me want to take back what I said on page 9 of this thread.

Instead of warning MTB'rs of what I fear is coming, I will wait until there is a problem and then tell PARD it is a problem of their own creation. They can't throw people off trails or prosecute people for doing what they appear to say is allowed.

OK, glad to see this post.  I thought I was going crazy when I was looking through the map.

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, Charlie193 said:

Here’s the picture of the sign at a hiking only trail entrance. Doesn’t seem clear to me.

If the City are going to start enforcing the rules as far as who is using the trails, I’d be curious to know if they intend to be as stringent with dog walkers (personally I don’t care at all if people walk their dogs in this particular park), as I see a bunch of dog walkers anytime I’m there (walking with my kids, of course) and very rarely any mountain bikers.

47DF62E6-758F-431F-AAD4-5CCB512CD0A5.jpeg

Awhile back I went to every trail head in this area to look at signage and found these signs as pictured, minus the no hunting sign, at everyone of them. Notice that the signage is new-ish looking too. Meaning you must assume it to be "recent" policy. 

You have to be a very good internet sleuth to go through the COA Parks Department website to find where it says, "hiking only" for this area. As a matter of fact I stopped writing this post to try and find where I had found it before. I spent 10 minutes and couldn't this time. But I know it is still the policy because I had a discussion with a park police person at a meeting about it a couple of months ago.

We should devout efforts into getting mtbing officially allowed there. It is almost the same size as Walnut Creek and has as good of topography. And of course we should work on getting more areas of the SATN sanctioned. And there are efforts being made towards that. I know I have said this before but our mtbing community should make golden images of cxagent to idolize for his "patience of Job" devotion to the tedious work of working with the City and other entities in accomplishing just that. In the SATN and the rest of the Austin area as well.

 

Edited by The Tip
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I think Job's patience is running out. Mine ran out a long time ago

One of the points about making good signs and/or rules is to try to say them in a positive way. Once you start saying "NO __X___" it starts to appear anything that is not expressly prohibited is allowed. For example, this sign say "No Motorized Vehicles" and shows a picture of a Jeep. Does that mean motorcycles are allowed? Motorcycles are not shown as not allowed. What about electric vehicles? Are they motorized? Some people don't think battery powered is motorized. What about battery powered skateboards? What about battery power unicycles? What about skateboards with no power? Etc. Etc.

What about horses? Are horses "pets"? Or are they "transportation"? Clearly they are not "motorized".

I see both sides of this issue. I am trying to bring the sides together for some type of compromise. Hopefully, a compromise will help MTB all over the City. But I cannot guarantee it. Sometimes these things hurt us by bringing attention to the issue. Keep your fingers crossed. And maybe your toes too.

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1 minute ago, cxagent said:

For example, this sign say "No Motorized Vehicles" and shows a picture of a Jeep. Does that mean motorcycles are allowed? Motorcycles are not shown as not allowed.

To get a little logical on you...the sign shows a drawing of an item that falls into the category of "motorized vehicles." But it clearly states that no items in this category are allowed. Items in this category also include one-wheels, space shuttles, motorcycles, e-pogos and remote control cars and many others. Not specificity stating each item in the category does not mean that items is allowed. 

 

6 minutes ago, cxagent said:

What about horses? Are horses "pets"?

Now that's a good point.  My favorite signs are "Human powered traffic only."

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Barry said:

To get a little logical on you...the sign shows a drawing of an item that falls into the category of "motorized vehicles." But it clearly states that no items in this category are allowed. Items in this category also include one-wheels, space shuttles, motorcycles, e-pogos and remote control cars and many others. Not specificity stating each item in the category does not mean that items is allowed. 

While I agree with your logic and think it is clear -  I hear the argument I stated ALL. THE. TIME.

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"Motorized Vehicle" = Any vehicle with a motor.

"Alcohol" = Any substance containing alcohol.

"Pets" = Any pet animal.

"Glass" = Anything containing glass.

It's pretty simple.

 

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14 minutes ago, RidingAgain said:

"Glass" = Anything containing glass.

They better be careful. They'l get sued for discriminating agains folks with old-school ocular prosthetics. 

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I forgot to mention the other one I hear A LOT

"Those signs don't mean anything. This is public property so I can do anything I want."

I wish I were making jokes.

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I am the motor and I run on alcohol.

I don't recognize the trail or the sign pictured above but I did go to the Derek Zoolander school for kids who don't read good.

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SATN experts - I live up North but SATN has been calling my name so I've been exploring the Southie trails quite a bit.  I rode the Bowie MTB scavenger hunt a few years ago and some of the group rides that used to meet at the park off Beckett.  More recently I've hit Crank n' Drank a couple of times so I'm starting to know my way around.  HOWEVER, I remember going down a trail a few years ago that had an old truck or car rusted out right next to the trail.  No...it's not a dump truck.  Anyway, I can not figure out where that was.  Could someone IM me and give me a general location?  I don't mind exploring to find it but system is so big that I'm not even sure I'm looking in the right zip code.  

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Chunk Truck is in the middle of the Latta Creek Greenbelt, just west of Dick Nichols Park. To get there, turn right at the tree with the big rock next to it.

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Located in the land of giants. That gb has some of the biggest trees around here.  

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2 hours ago, Tree Magnet said:

  HOWEVER, I remember going down a trail a few years ago that had an old truck or car rusted out right next to the trail.  No...it's not a dump truck.  Anyway, I can not figure out where that was.  Could someone IM me and give me a general location?  I don't mind exploring to find it but system is so big that I'm not even sure I'm looking in the right zip code.  

Yes, it's in the Latta Branch Greenbelt, just west of Beckett, across the street from Dick Nichols. If you can find anyone's Strava ride and look at the map, that car is on a trail marked on the map as "Rocky Trail."

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I haven't been back there this season... But I still have horrible memories of my experience last year... Got a bit turned around on the multiple trail sections in that area... A shoe sole came apart at the front and I had to stop to try and fix it with duct tape, but was being eaten by the flies... Started walking the trail to get away from them, ended up having to pretty much jog with the bike for about ten minutes before I got out of their area... It was not fun.

Edited by RidingAgain

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