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cxagent

Consequences of unsanctioned trail building

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I went to MTBR for the first time in a LONG time. (Too much to do, too little time.) I ran across the thread at https://forums.mtbr.com/trail-building-advocacy/consequences-unsanctioned-trail-building-1066346.html . No - I did not have time to read it all.

No matter your position, I think it has been posted there. It looks like the whole country is having some of the same issues we are having locally.

BTW - I'm not trying to start another food fight. Just pointing out that many of the issues we are seeing locally are found almost everywhere.

Edited by cxagent
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Here's one comment regarding the extreme that can happen...

"...Unsanctioned trail building in my town led to the IMBA chapter folding about 8 years ago and nearly killed mountain biking altogether in city parks. It fragmented our community and lines that were drawn back then are still in effect today, with deep suspicion between parks friends groups, mountain bikers and other trail user groups. A lot of damage has been undone, but creating a unified voice for advocacy has pretty much been impossible. To top it off, the squad that nearly got the kibosh put on mtbs, are still building their poorly constructed and unsustainable fall line trails in the park, putting legitimate trail building by builders from the MTB community in constant jeopardy..."

Edited by RidingAgain

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This is why IMBA's Trail Solutions book has chapters dedicated on how to approach and deal with the powers that be as an integral part of the trail building process.

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And ARR has for the most part successfully cultivated and nurtured those relationships for many years. 

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On 1/10/2019 at 11:17 AM, Anita Handle said:

sanctioned trail building = Ginger

unsanctioned trail building = Mary Anne

and GO!

Can we change this to Christina Applegate vs. Alyssa Milano for the less krusty old farts on here please?

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1 hour ago, Bamwa said:

Can we change this to Christina Applegate vs. Alyssa Milano for the less krusty old farts on here please?

Those two are indeed a more appropriate choice since they're my age-ish. But I couldn't make a choice. 

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I like how this went from

Sustainable Trail Building

to

Sustainable Fantasy Building,

in just two posts.

Bravo!

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  • Haha 2

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On 1/10/2019 at 11:14 AM, RidingAgain said:

"To top it off, the squad that nearly got the kibosh put on mtbs, are still building their poorly constructed and unsustainable fall line trails in the park, putting legitimate trail building by builders from the MTB community in constant jeopardy..."

But... if we're honest, fall line trails are the most fun, hands down... and what's more, there really isn't much "building" involved; you just ride the earth-wave as it is... it's the mtb equivalent of surfing or skiing.

There, that should get this thread crackin'.

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14 hours ago, gotdurt said:

But... if we're honest, fall line trails are the most fun, hands down... and what's more, there really isn't much "building" involved; you just ride the earth-wave as it is... it's the mtb equivalent of surfing or skiing.

I'll jump in but not because I think straight downhill is not fun.  I think that bermy, jumpy, flowy, pumpy trails that gently descend contours is more fun.  I'd rather not be on the brakes as much, to me, having to brake too much indicates poor flow, and I like flow.

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Any time I hear "hands down" without an "IMHO" I immediately think "subjective", and move on.

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For some strange reason, I think there should be trails for riders of all preferences.

Like Lady Bird Lake kind of trails? It is there, go for it!

Like Red Bull Rampage kind of trails? There are not many places like that around here but you should have some trails too. The trouble is getting permission to build or even allow that level of trail. If you find that kind of trail - don't tell anybody!!!

Like something in between? That is most of what is available around CTX. And some really good stuff too.

Edited by cxagent
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16 hours ago, gotdurt said:

But... if we're honest, fall line trails are the most fun, hands down... and what's more, there really isn't much "building" involved; you just ride the earth-wave as it is... it's the mtb equivalent of surfing or skiing.

There, that should get this thread crackin'.

Tough to say whats fun for everyone.  IMHO yes, hauling @ss down a mountain is an adrenaline rush thats tough to beat and probably my favorite. Little to none of that exists here, so I'll settle for the usual switchback/ledge/switchback/ledge/ ledge /ledge /ledge monotony thats available.

 

AFA unsanctioned, seems like most of all the available "public land" is in some sort of nasty floodplain that cant be developed, so most dont notice if someone is digging until its too late. In reality, working with land owners to develop private land into MTB destinations is the only option here.   

Edited by ATXZJ

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6 hours ago, cxagent said:

For some strange reason, I think there should be trails for riders of all preferences.

Like Lady Bird Lake kind of trails? It is there, go for it!

Like Red Bull Rampage kind of trails? There are not many places like that around here but you should have some trails too. The trouble is getting permission to build or even allow that level of trail. If you find that kind of trail - don't tell anybody!!!

Like something in between? That is most of what is available around CTX. And some really good stuff too.

cat has a few lines that are in that vein. Essentially straight down one of the typical rock gullies

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On 1/12/2019 at 12:57 PM, TheX said:

Any time I hear "hands down" without an "IMHO" I immediately think "subjective", and move on.

My apologies, I'm still waiting on a 'tongue-in-cheek' specific tag or font... but I also kinda figured my last line would provide insight to my poking...

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I didn't mean to call anyone out personally, just a general statement.

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Can’t get more fall line and eroding than the end of mulligan. And that shit’s fun! It’s bandit, turned sanctioned.

SA trail network...99.9% bandit, pretty tame.

Can’t lump them all into one pile.

Damn few have not ridden both sanctioned and unsanctioned and everyone will have some justification. Some areas like this one the number of users vs. open space is super lopsided. It’s inevitable. That applies to ALL user groups, not just MTB’s. If not, I wouldn’t see flagging for hikes, runs, and see birders and geocachers all over the place in areas some of these groups cry foul about.




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On 1/12/2019 at 1:29 PM, cxagent said:

For some strange reason, I think there should be trails for riders of all preferences.

Like Lady Bird Lake kind of trails? It is there, go for it!

Like Red Bull Rampage kind of trails? There are not many places like that around here but you should have some trails too. The trouble is getting permission to build or even allow that level of trail. If you find that kind of trail - don't tell anybody!!!

Like something in between? That is most of what is available around CTX. And some really good stuff too.

I ride town lake ~4-5 times a week on my urban bike. I ride the greenbelt at least 4 times a month, usually closer to 8. Not a month goes past that I have not been to Brushy, Pace Bend or somewhere else. I need to do more at Muleshoe  and even find some new trails I have never ridden before. Today I rode some sketchy things that most don't know about and we won't discuss here. Yesterday I was on pavement because things were wet.

There is no one type of trail nor one single place to ride.

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sanctioned trail building = Ginger
unsanctioned trail building = Mary Anne
and GO!


But really though?

Can anyone honestly say that the chopped up building that keeps occurring on one of the more coveted old secretive trails in Austin is any good at all?

The trails there are great. Leave them alone. If you are going to build there. At least properly close the trail that is 10 feet away and learn to build a dam crib wall properly before bench cutting across a trail that used to be a blast to ride.

Now we have a lattice of trails with no flow at all and no clear direction. Who ever this is doesn’t know shit about building a trail, especially in Austin.

People need to stop building trail on existing grey area trails.


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21 hours ago, Chongo Loco said:

Can’t get more fall line and eroding than the end of mulligan. And that shit’s fun! It’s bandit, turned sanctioned.

SA trail network...99.9% bandit, pretty tame.

Can’t lump them all into one pile.

Damn few have not ridden both sanctioned and unsanctioned and everyone will have some justification. Some areas like this one the number of users vs. open space is super lopsided. It’s inevitable. That applies to ALL user groups, not just MTB’s. If not, I wouldn’t see flagging for hikes, runs, and see birders and geocachers all over the place in areas some of these groups cry foul about.




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Technically Mulligan is not exactly sanctioned, that's why it has no signs...not that it matters. 

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13 hours ago, FJsnoozer said:

 


But really though?

Can anyone honestly say that the chopped up building that keeps occurring on one of the more coveted old secretive trails in Austin is any good at all?

The trails there are great. Leave them alone. If you are going to build there. At least properly close the trail that is 10 feet away and learn to build a dam crib wall properly before bench cutting across a trail that used to be a blast to ride.

Now we have a lattice of trails with no flow at all and no clear direction. Who ever this is doesn’t know shit about building a trail, especially in Austin.

People need to stop building trail on existing grey area trails.


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If we are talking about the same place...maybe you are riding the wrong bits, or the wrong ways, or maybe it's not just your cup of tea...for most of it that is newer it flows very well and being built pretty damn well, with tons of flow and fun - most, not all. I still love the tight bits, but most of those are just a way to get to the top and when you put it together it works very well IMO - tight, long, tech, climbs with fast, flowy, fun downs. I can see the frustration in the more recent 'criss-crossing' in a particular area - that could be done better and poached less on existing lines...but in the big picture, that is literally line 10 seconds of trail experience at the most.

P.S. - NOW, THAT SAID - DON'T BUILD UNSANCTIONED TRAILS

 

Edited by rugger
poop
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